best mp3 player ? (regarding SQ only)

[Nandro]

I have owned 4 iPods, the Karma, the iAudio X5L and the small but somewhat nice sounding Rio Chiba. Sound quality out of the headphone jack, the Karma was it, no comparison, but then again most of us are audiophiles and are never happy with what comes out of a regular headphone jack. My Karma had issues with the little red joystick control since the day I got it, so I traded it for the iAudio which to me sounded horrible in comparison. Then I got my first amp which was an RA-1 clone to go with the SR-60's I used for my portables (I dont care how stupid I look if my music is good). After that I got the Sik Din line out for my wifes iPod photo and in all honesty they sounded so close it didnt hatter and the iPod won out due to the overwhelming amount of accessories it has. Want a remote, pick one... want a tube amp made for the iPod... Pick one... want it to drive your car...well maybe they dont do thatm but the iPod has not only got alot of accessories, but also retains resale value. I currently have the 4th gen Photo, and 5th gen video 80G. I use both of them with the total bithead and they sound great. Personally I think with the amp the headphones are holding them back at this point. So for me SQ is no an issue, its amp quality and headphone quality. I now use SuperFi 5 Pro's with the bithead that I got for christmas, and the iPod is amazing. This does not mean that another DAP woundnt be as well, just that you are all comparing Daps and have said things like this sounds thin or lack of bass, when no one is using the same pair of headphones which would make all the difference in the world. My SR-60's being the forgiving fun loving cans they are could easily make my iPod sound better than the Karma with its stock earbuds. This question's answer needs to be more detailed to be accurate IMHO.

 

[antonyfirst]

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think you should compare Rio Karma and iPod using the same cans, not using Rio Karma with its crappy stock earbuds.

 

[Nandro]

I have done that and the Karma is much better out of the headphone jack, however when you compare them through the line out they become much closer in quality, close enough that a blind test would probably only show the difference under circumstances where the listener was listening for something specific, but no massive difference in SQ as far as I could tell and that wasnt with a great amp either. Basicly I dont think SQ between all these daps is much different when using an amp, and after using an amp, I would probably never go back to using a dap without one. They are small, very efficient and make a dap actually sound like a piece of high quality audio equiptment. I have actually thought of doing the iMod, but I am researching how other players such as mini disc compare sound wise from their line outs.

 

[liquidfireboy]

I only have 2 DAPs: 1st gen Shuffle and Sony "Core" DAP.

Subjectively, the Shuffle steps all over the Sony, with better bass and "wider" sound. Instruments sounded bigger and more powerful with the Shuffle. The sound signature of the Sony is slightly "dark" too. Even tweakin the treble/bass settings on the Sony didn't produce the same impact that the Shuffle could.

Don't get me wrong, the Sony DAP's still enjoyable. It's just that...it doesn't sound like a Shuffle

Both tested with UM2 and E888LP.

 

[DobsOnly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif DobsOnly, You wrote the Vision M but forgot a description. How does it sound compared to its little brother the zen V+

I did not spend much time with the Vision "M". I auditioned it in the store against the 30g Ipod Video and the Zen V+ using my Ety ER6's and im716's.

What I recall is the sound signature was very similar to the Zen V+ with the exception that the Vision "M" might have had a little more depth and body to the sound than the Zen V+. I really thought it excelled with the quality of video playback Very clean, vibrant screen. In the end I took the 4g Zen V+ home for a couple days as it was for me a better value since I didn't care about video capability.

The original question was best DAP? Rio Karma

Best DAP with Amp, might be a different story as the others have mentioned in this thread.

 

[strokerace]

there are only a few portables i've had a chance to listen to. I've owned a rio karma and the drive broke on me so i used the circuit city warranty to buy an h120 off ebay. installed rockbox on it right away and never bothered to hear the original EQ. my brother's got a 3G ipod for comparison. here goes my ranking based on unamped sound.

the rio karma sounded the best to my ears. when i had the karma, my headphones were senn HD280 and panasonic hje-50's. no matter where i played the karma from it sounded awesome, be it through headphones, car stereo, computer speakers, or home theater system. i've tried to replicate the warm sound of the karma with my rockbox enabled h120, and it comes very close especially with an amp (i have a cmoy) thanks to the great EQ. in the limited time with the ipod, i couldn't find anything that i liked in the EQ presets. maybe some other headphiones and an amp could make it sound better. i also found that the h120 works well with the ksc-75

 

[SiBurning]

This is a nice thread. I like the details, like whether it sounds good with line out or headphone out or both, or whether you're using lossless vs. lossy. I have an iRiver h140 and think the headphone out sucks, but haven't really tried the line out except digital out. (Why bother if I'm carrying something else?) The iRiver cd player doesn't have great tone or realism, but somehow sounds much better than the dap.

These details would be nice for all posts.
1. The kind of music you listen to, or how it sounds with different music.
2. The cans you're using, because there are synergies and bad combinations.
3. line out vs. headphone out.
4. type of sound file and bitrate (roughly)

I haven't spent much time comparing DAPs. The few ipods I've heard weren't very good, but they probably had lousy, lossy recordings.

Keep this great thread going.

 

[Altoids]

I just bought a Zune and I'm in love with it so far. Using e4cs, this thing sounds sublime. The only other daps I've used were the iAudio X5L, H120, I owned a Karma for about a week (I always forget I had one of those) but took it back because it was too bulky and awkward. I remember the sound being very nice, though.

Anyway, if you plan on using than amp then I think you should obviously get an iPod. I don't like them personally, but it's a no-brainer when you consider the number of accessories, the open-source options, and the assurance of future support (******* you, Toshiba, I wanted an S30).

However, if you're like me and are looking for good sound straight from the headphone jack with the possibility of amping sometime in the future, I have to recommend either the Zune or the Creative. I know people here have a sentimental bias toward the Karma, but after hearing the aforementioned players, I know I don't think there's a better compromise between *very* good SQ and portability. I suppose it depends on how superficial or pragmatic you are, but I doubt an A/B comparison would yield any damning results in favor of the Karma

 

[*645-k701]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a nice thread. I like the details, like whether it sounds good with line out or headphone out or both, or whether you're using lossless vs. lossy. Keep this great thread going.

Yes indeed!
Keep this thread going, all very helpful posts.
Im looking to trade my sony nw-a3000 in for something else.
(just the bulk and slow navigation is getting ridiculous.)

For size that cowon iAUDIO U3 4GB looks tasty. (120€ new)
iriver clix 4g looks slick. (175€ new)
And im super interested in the rio karma after all the praise.
(120€ new,ebay atm)
Add the Cowon D2 to the list as well 8g would sell me.

Just keep the thread going..

 

[Nandro]

Is it bigger or smaller than a 4G iPod? I was going to sell or trade mine as I have an iPod video, although if things turn out ok monetarily I was thinking about the iMod.

 

[Zanth]

My experience mirrors that of Nandros'. I did the Karma, I did some MD players (which I really liked) and I've since moved on to the iPods. Karma and MD had a warmer thicker sound, kinda tube-like in comparison to the iPods. The MDs though...VERY low capacity, horrible software and Sony seems to be tanking the line at the moment...so I simply stopped at the NetMD stuff, didn't move toward the HiMD line and made a b-line for the Karma. Two Karmas in 3 weeks died on me, even though I loved the sound straight from the jack...dying units and eventually dead ones are of no use to me, so back they went: enter iPod iPhoto 60 gig. After 3 years? Seems like 3 maybe only 2....it is still going very strong. I have a Nano which I purchased for working out and sleeping. Via the line out I get very good sound quality, linear, out to a good amp and then my phones. I won't deny there are hiss issues with very sensitive IEM's but otherwise, the sound is fine. Still, the Karma out of the jack was the best, followed by MD then iPod. Maybe it is because I prefer a bit of musical bounce in my music, some life as it were. Some would prefer the flatter response of the iPods.

 

[Nandro]

Having 2 iPods, and what I have heard about the MD quality, I would love to find an even trade for a Hi-MD just to see the difference. They seem to be getting scarce and usually the ones for sale are old. iPods deffinitly have durability and because of the name they have value retention along with a million and 1 accessories.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... iPods deffinitly have durability and because of the name they have value retention along with a million and 1 accessories.

Theres an awful lot of failures of iPods.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky191 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Theres an awful lot of failures of iPods.

Perhaps but how many have been made? Take that into consideration. Rio Karmas for instance must have sold 1/1000 the units and it seemed vast amounts failed. I'm not an iPod fanboy but seriously given the volume of these things on the market, even a bunch isn't a whole lot when the equate if fully drawn out.

 

[*645-k701]

For me the sweetspot with ipod's is the excellent navigation.
I have the original ipod mini 2k3/2k4 model, very durable little beast.
so many big drops and it still played fine. addored it for that.

But its battery life did it in the end.
the cheap price of the sony and the 20gb sold me..
i diddnt do enough research on it. the navigation plain SUX, 9/10 times if you try to go back to menu durring a song it will stall for up to a minute.

gets me bent sideways..
the only thing going for me atm with ipods is the fast and easy navigation.

otherwise it looks like it will be a cowon for the sound quality, as i realy dont care for watching tiny vids. ONLY after good musiq..