Best DAC Under $1000?
May 6, 2017 at 12:28 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 23

blackrain139

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Hi guys

My current setup is:
O2/ODAC - Feliks Elise Tube Amp - Audeze EL8 Open & Beyer T1

I plan to upgrade the O2/ODAC and I'm seeking opinions on the best DAC under $1000.

I've a preference for a neutral DAC without too much coloration. Ideally, it should also include USB.

I've demoed the Bifrost, Jotunheim but I wasn't convinced it's a significant upgrade over the O2/ODAC. I've not heard the Gungnir but I read that it has a warmer signature.

I'm seeking suggestions.

Thank you!
 
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May 6, 2017 at 7:09 PM Post #4 of 23
See if you can't find a second-hand Hugo for around that price I reckon, then get a Schiit Wyrd to use with it.
 
May 7, 2017 at 12:29 PM Post #5 of 23
Thanks currawong

The Hugo looks interesting. I'm leaning towards a more desktop based DAC instead of portability.

@AtomicPunch

Do you own the DenaFrips? It looks very very tempting. How does it compare with a Gumby?
 
May 8, 2017 at 2:23 AM Post #6 of 23
If you tried the Bimby, the Gumby is not going to be a huge difference. I am surprised you did not notice a difference between the ODAC and Bimby.

I usually do not buy into "burn in" type of statements. But I will say, in order for any of the Schiit Multibits to run best, they kind of need to be on all the time. At least give them an hour or so warm up. I have no idea why a DAC would need to be on for an extended amount of time to "sound right," but this is pretty much what it is with these.

Which is odd to me as solid state electrical components come up to temp in a matter of minutes, not hours. Maybe it is a clock sync issue that self corrects over time; I cannot explain it.
 
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May 8, 2017 at 3:32 AM Post #7 of 23
May 8, 2017 at 3:31 PM Post #8 of 23
If you tried the Bimby, the Gumby is not going to be a huge difference. I am surprised you did not notice a difference between the ODAC and Bimby.

Don't get me wrong. I could hear subtle improvements over the ODAC (which I think is pretty sterile), but I don't think it justifies the upgrade cost. I was hoping for a significant improvement... perhaps from entry to mid-tier category.

If I get a chance for a demo unit again, I'm gonna try burning in and see if it changes my opinion.
 
May 9, 2017 at 5:28 PM Post #9 of 23
There are a lot of options if you go used... For example you can probably get a NAD M51 if you like an uncolored sound (or one of many other DACS) and a Singxer F-1 for about a grand and then you would be state of the art.

Or you can get one of the FOTM Dacs like the Denafrips and be part of that excitement that happens when a new DAC comes into play.

I feel a lot of the advancements lately have been in peripheral devices such as the Singxer and there isn't really anything that is new and head and shoulders above the DACs that have been produced over the past couple of years.
 
May 13, 2017 at 11:09 PM Post #10 of 23
Don't get me wrong. I could hear subtle improvements over the ODAC (which I think is pretty sterile), but I don't think it justifies the upgrade cost. I was hoping for a significant improvement... perhaps from entry to mid-tier category.

If I get a chance for a demo unit again, I'm gonna try burning in and see if it changes my opinion.

So the "burn in" thing was just driving me crazy so I did a little research. The best I found from Mike Moffat here which states:

"It is not the DSP which needs to thermally stabilize. It is the DAC chip which needs to settle into its INL spec." @Baldr

Now the problem is he has never directly answered the question about thermal stabilization of the DAC chip, which has been asked on at least a dozen occasions that I have found; and these were on threads he was posting on.

I think this may be a marketing issue where he is being intentionally vague. The issue is INL is a specification of the DAC, in fact there is a specification for it over voltage and temperature range. So it does not need time to "settle" into this specification. However the DAC being used has a LIN COMP register in which they can apply one or more dynamic nonlinearity compensation techniques. There are many techniques that you can find using the digital domain, analog domain, or both. Some of these use LIN COMP, while others adjust the gain and offset error registers. What it does appear, based on several thesis papers (you can find on the subject), that you can do this accurately or fast; and the larger the bit depth the longer it takes.

This would seem to be far more accurate as to why the Modi Multibit (16 bit) seems to only need a few hours whereas the Yggdrasil (20 bit) needs a day or more to "settle."

I hope @Baldr responds because this is driving me crazy. The Ideal operating temp for these DAC's are +25 degree C (ambient), and should come "up to temp" in a matter of minutes.

This may be a proprietary dynamic nonlinearity compensation technique that they do not want to discuss, or maybe this part of the code is a black box to him. I would really like to see a real response to people believing the chip is still "coming up to temp" over the course of 24 hours (some even claim upwards of 150 hours).

In essence, something is stabilizing; and I i have not seen a single paper talking about thermal stabilization (at room temperature ambient) over the course of hours, let alone days.

I just noticed that the Holo Audio Spring is claiming to be the first and only DAC with linearity compensation.... Interesting, though I don't think this is true based on other articles I read.

-Ray
 
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May 15, 2017 at 11:51 AM Post #11 of 23
I'd recommend looking for a used Chord 2Qute instead of the Hugo, especially since you're using an external amp.

It was originally $1,800, but is now $1,300 new (which is what I paid) so it's easier to find under $1,000.

It's basically the same as the Hugo except without a headphone amp and with galvanic isolation and a wall wart. Many prefer it over the Hugo and some even like it as much as or more than the much more expensive Hugo TT!
 
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Jun 1, 2017 at 4:18 PM Post #12 of 23
I bought the Chord 2Qute and the Denafrips Ares that was recommended earlier. Bought the Denafrips Ares first...then the 2Qute came up on a classified site on a great deal.

If anyone wants a comparison of these 2, let me know.

The Chord 2Qute sounds amazing...neutral warm with so much musicality and details. It makes me wonder how the Dave sounds like.
 
Jun 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM Post #13 of 23
I bought the Chord 2Qute and the Denafrips Ares that was recommended earlier. Bought the Denafrips Ares first...then the 2Qute came up on a classified site on a great deal.

If anyone wants a comparison of these 2, let me know.

The Chord 2Qute sounds amazing...neutral warm with so much musicality and details. It makes me wonder how the Dave sounds like.

Cool! I use my 2Qute every day, but will probably not be able to resist the Hugo 2 or 2Qute successor (with Hugo 2 tech) once they come out. People are saying the Hugo 2 sounds closer to the DAVE than all the other Chord DACs, including the Hugo TT.

If you really want to take your 2Qute to the next level, try this tweak of mine. (And feel free to post any impressions in that thread.)

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/chord-electronics-2qute-dac-announced.749582/page-77#post-13513572
 
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Jun 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM Post #14 of 23
I bought the Chord 2Qute and the Denafrips Ares that was recommended earlier. Bought the Denafrips Ares first...then the 2Qute came up on a classified site on a great deal.

If anyone wants a comparison of these 2, let me know.

The Chord 2Qute sounds amazing...neutral warm with so much musicality and details. It makes me wonder how the Dave sounds like.

I would love to hear the comparison between both dac. The denafrips is really intriguing though :ksc75smile:
 

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