[K1TH]

Hello,
 
 
So Im pretty new around here and new to this whole audiophile stuff, I wouldn't really call myself one, I'm just looking for high end fun sound that won't wake up everyone in my house.
That's the reason I can't really use monitors.
 
My first post I asked what headphone would be right for me and come to the Beyerdynamic DT990.
Now as I understand higher ohm ones are better as long as I can power them.(Correct me if I'm wrong please.)
The 600 ohm version costs exactly the same as the other two in my country so I might just get those.
 
Now I'm still trying to understand this whole stuff but as far as I understand a DAC is better than a Sound card.
I just want something to power my headphones for around 500$.
 
DAC+AMP or DAC with built-in AMP I don't really mind either, I just want it to sound good.
 
 
What would you recommend within my budget?
I read the forum's buying guide but I couldn't really pick one.
 
Is the ASUS Xonar One a good choice, or maybe a Creative Sound Blaster X7?
Something from schiit?
 
Any help is appreciated.
 
Thanks in advance.

 

[cel4145]

A sound card has a DAC. Your phone has a DAC. Can't covert digital to analog without a DAC. Devices that let you hook up headphones already have a DAC.

A sound card may also have an internal headphone amp. Sound cards also typically have more features than your average external DAC or amp. If you need the virtual surround capability of a sound card, then go with that. Otherwise, external DAC/amps are going to be a better value.

External DACs and amps are often better than internal sound cards because they are not subject to the EMI problems inside a computer.

I would guess that the Creative Sound Blaster X7 is not the best value for just a headphone amp. You are paying for the internal speaker amp.

I would recommend the Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2. Or an Audio GD NFB-11.

 

[K1TH]

A sound card has a DAC. Your phone has a DAC. Can't covert digital to analog without a DAC. Devices that let you hook up headphones already have a DAC.

A sound card may also have an internal headphone amp. Sound cards also typically have more features than your average external DAC or amp. If you need the virtual surround capability of a sound card, then go with that. Otherwise, external DAC/amps are going to be a better value.

External DACs and amps are often better than internal sound cards because they are not subject to the EMI problems inside a computer.

I would guess that the Creative Sound Blaster X7 is not the best value for just a headphone amp. You are paying for the internal speaker amp.

I would recommend the Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2. Or an Audio GD NFB-11.

Thanks for the reply.
 
The Schiit setup sounds good to me.
And also thanks for clearing this topic up for me!

 

[Draxcer]

  Thanks for the reply.
 
The Schiit setup sounds good to me.
And also thanks for clearing this topic up for me!

 
If you're going for the modi2/magni2, consider the Magni 2 Uber, significantly more power for not much more $$$

But if you ever think you'll be getting higher end headphones, just consider the NFB-11
 
I'd classify the modi/magni combo midfi, and the NFB-11 Highfi, though modi/magni is probably all you'll ever need unless you go HE-6 status. 

 

[K1TH]

   
If you're going for the modi2/magni2, consider the Magni 2 Uber, significantly more power for not much more $$$

But if you ever think you'll be getting higher end headphones, just consider the NFB-11
 
I'd classify the modi/magni combo midfi, and the NFB-11 Highfi, though modi/magni is probably all you'll ever need unless you go HE-6 status. 

I don't really think I will ever move towards the audiophileish neutral sounding headphone range.
All I really need it for is gaming, not too much competitive, just for cinematic sound.

 

[cel4145]

If you're going for the modi2/magni2, consider the Magni 2 Uber, significantly more power for not much more $$$

Not "significantly more power."

The regular Magni 2 is 130mw into 600 ohms. The Uber is 160mw.

Doubling the power (wattage) to a speaker or headphone results in +3db more output in volume. The general rule is that it takes +10db more volume for a perceived (what we hear) doubling in volume. Going from 130mw to 160mw wouldn't even be a +1db increase. So actually VERY insignificant.

 

[cel4145]

However, if you think you might ever want to add powered speakers to your desktop setup, get the Uber. It has pre amp outs. You could connect the speakers to it then use the Uber's volume control to change the volume. Very convenient to have your headphones and speakers to through the same volume control.

 

[Orestes1984]

TLDR: I would say if you not willing to buy a decent amplifier, do not buy 600-Ohm headphones. If you are planning on using these headphones in public spaces, do not buy open back headphones.
 
---
 
It's the wrong way round and your looking at the wrong thing. The lower the Ω (ohm) if a speaker has a lower Ω impedance, it will play louder for the same voltage input. Most home and car loud speakers have a nominal impedance of 2, 4 or 8Ω That means in real terms it needs less wattage to make LOUD NOISES! and therefore can be driven from a lower powered amplifier. If you have a 600Ω speaker it requires more power. Of course this has nothing to do with the quality of the speaker it just means the 32Ω speaker needs less power than the 600Ω speaker in a set of headphones.
 
The real issue with this then comes down not to whether the speaker sounds good enough or not but whether you can afford a loud enough amplifier to drive them properly, with high quality, high powered amplifiers costing a lot more. Meanwhile, while you can get some Class AB and Class D amplifiers that are loud they are generally not as good in terms of sound quality that they will produce. A vintage class A amplifier that may only produce 15watts of power might sound better than your class D amplifier that produces 500watts of power.
 
If we take that assumption as it is then we use a regular 100watt amp driving a speaker with an 8Ω speaker. 100watts is 28.3Vrms, which equals a total noise increase of +20dB relative to 2.83 volts. If the speaker has a 90dB sensitivity, then the max SPL is 90+20db assumed by the efficiency of the 8Ω speaker = a total noise capability of 110dB it means that we only need 100watts to make 110db of noise. If we need to use a 16Ω driver all of a sudden we can expect the need to use twice as much power to make the same amount of noise.
 
It doesn't mean that the 16Ω speaker is worse, its just twice as inefficient at making noise. Now why does noise efficiency mean anything then? If we are talking about headphone speakers, the typical source for such a driver (headphone speakers) is a small portable MP3 player, a phone, or a laptop, when someone wants to walk around and only carry their headphones and a small device such as an MP3 Player and phone, then the more efficient headphones are better suited simply for the sake of portability. They make more noise and require less power for them to be properly driven and so you don't need anything other than the phone or MP3 player.
 
If you talk of some of the incredibly inefficient headphones such as those produced by Beyerdynamics, or Hifiman it means you need a separate amplification for your headphones which means they're not really portable:
 
In my case I need an incredibly efficient set of headphones as my primary listening stage is an iPhone 5S, my Focal Spirit One produce 103db/32Ω which is at the point of being defined as deafening at full volume. I never need to go past half volume on my iPhone and it produces 70 to 80db of noise with peaks at 90db. For a low powered source this is more than plenty. My Focal Spirit ones are 20times as efficient as a headphone that have a 600Ω impedance. Does it mean they are better? No, they're simply better suited to what I use them for than a speaker which requires 20 times the nominal impedance to drive them.
 
----
 
TLDR: I would say if you not willing to buy a decent amplifier, do not buy 600-Ohm headphones. If you are planning on using these headphones in public spaces, do not buy open back headphones.

 

[DangerClose]

   
The 600 ohm version costs exactly the same as the other two in my country so I might just get those.

 
Realize a 600 ohm Beyer takes a lot of power to sound like it should.  It might sound "good" underpowered, but you won't know what you're missing.  A typical low-end amp or sound card with like 125@32 isn't enough.  It might be plenty loud, but that's not the point.

 

[K1TH]

  TLDR: I would say if you not willing to buy a decent amplifier, do not buy 600-Ohm headphones. If you are planning on using these headphones in public spaces, do not buy open back headphones.
 
---
 
It's the wrong way round and your looking at the wrong thing. The lower the Ω (ohm) if a speaker has a lower Ω impedance, it will play louder for the same voltage input. Most home and car loud speakers have a nominal impedance of 2, 4 or 8Ω That means in real terms it needs less wattage to make LOUD NOISES! and therefore can be driven from a lower powered amplifier. If you have a 600Ω speaker it requires more power. Of course this has nothing to do with the quality of the speaker it just means the 32Ω speaker needs less power than the 600Ω speaker in a set of headphones.
 
The real issue with this then comes down not to whether the speaker sounds good enough or not but whether you can afford a loud enough amplifier to drive them properly, with high quality, high powered amplifiers costing a lot more. Meanwhile, while you can get some Class AB and Class D amplifiers that are loud they are generally not as good in terms of sound quality that they will produce. A vintage class A amplifier that may only produce 15watts of power might sound better than your class D amplifier that produces 500watts of power.
 
If we take that assumption as it is then we use a regular 100watt amp driving a speaker with an 8Ω speaker. 100watts is 28.3Vrms, which equals a total noise increase of +20dB relative to 2.83 volts. If the speaker has a 90dB sensitivity, then the max SPL is 90+20db assumed by the efficiency of the 8Ω speaker = a total noise capability of 110dB it means that we only need 100watts to make 110db of noise. If we need to use a 16Ω driver all of a sudden we can expect the need to use twice as much power to make the same amount of noise.
 
It doesn't mean that the 16Ω speaker is worse, its just twice as inefficient at making noise. Now why does noise efficiency mean anything then? If we are talking about headphone speakers, the typical source for such a driver (headphone speakers) is a small portable MP3 player, a phone, or a laptop, when someone wants to walk around and only carry their headphones and a small device such as an MP3 Player and phone, then the more efficient headphones are better suited simply for the sake of portability. They make more noise and require less power for them to be properly driven and so you don't need anything other than the phone or MP3 player.
 
If you talk of some of the incredibly inefficient headphones such as those produced by Beyerdynamics, or Hifiman it means you need a separate amplification for your headphones which means they're not really portable:
 
In my case I need an incredibly efficient set of headphones as my primary listening stage is an iPhone 5S, my Focal Spirit One produce 103db/32Ω which is at the point of being defined as deafening at full volume. I never need to go past half volume on my iPhone and it produces 70 to 80db of noise with peaks at 90db. For a low powered source this is more than plenty. My Focal Spirit ones are 20times as efficient as a headphone that have a 600Ω impedance. Does it mean they are better? No, they're simply better suited to what I use them for than a speaker which requires 20 times the nominal impedance to drive them.
 
----
 
TLDR: I would say if you not willing to buy a decent amplifier, do not buy 600-Ohm headphones. If you are planning on using these headphones in public spaces, do not buy open back headphones.

 
First of all, thanks for clearing all that up.
 
I don't need portability with these at all. They're always going be staying and being used at my setup at home.
 
Well what is a decent amplifier for these?
 
My whole setup is going to be around 5500$ anyway, buying a new AC too for the room.Not really concerned about money.I work from home, so basically upgrading my office too.
But would a 500$ schiit stack be good for these?

 

[K1TH]

   
Realize a 600 ohm Beyer takes a lot of power to sound like it should.  It might sound "good" underpowered, but you won't know what you're missing.  A typical low-end amp or sound card with like 125@32 isn't enough.  It might be plenty loud, but that's not the point.

What amp would you recommend that would properly power these?

 

[cel4145]

A Schiit Magni 2 will easily power those Beyers.

 

[DangerClose]

I've used DT880 600 with Magni 1 (a little less power than 2) and think it's borderline for properly powering them.  Frankly, I think they underpower them somewhat, but it's still very good. So Magni 2 should be quite enjoyable with them.

 

[K1TH]

A Schiit Magni 2 will easily power those Beyers.

 

  I've used DT880 600 with Magni 1 (a little less power than 2) and think it's borderline for properly powering them.  Frankly, I think they underpower them somewhat, but it's still very good. So Magni 2 should be quite enjoyable with them.

Thank you very much!

 

[K1TH]

A Schiit Magni 2 will easily power those Beyers.

 
 

  I've used DT880 600 with Magni 1 (a little less power than 2) and think it's borderline for properly powering them.  Frankly, I think they underpower them somewhat, but it's still very good. So Magni 2 should be quite enjoyable with them.

 
 
What do you guys think about a Valhalla 2 for tube sound instead of the Magni 2?
I can pair a Modi 2 with a Valhalla 2, right?