[donunus]

By the way, does anyone happen to have hd280pros here and using the naive crossfeed? I feel they were made for each other. The left to right pan is pretty seamless. As seamless as I've ever heard this headphone to sound.

 

[Typhoon859]

  Here we go again Leeperry, Looking for Xfeed again LOL 
 
After refreshing the ears by listening without crossfeed for a while and going back to headfit for example, I just realized that it was giving me a change in the sound more than the actual crossfeed effect that I wanted. BS2B is just way too colored, Isone pro is cool at first and makes one feel like he does when buying a new toy but it fades away after you realize it is coloring the sound and phase too much. Naive Xfeed is the best so far for me since it gives me the compacted soundstage with good placement that I want without killing the tonality like bs2b but it still has an effect of making the treble a little detached from the rest of the sound... sort of like using headroom crossfeed and engaging the brightness filter switch. It's subtle though but its there. I guess I'm okay with the naive xfeed and feel it to be better than using no xfeed at all but I am still fishing to try more plugins if there are any. Something subtle would be really nice ala naive.

So how do these compare would you say to the Meier crossfeed in Foobar?  Many of the things you listed are many of the things I always hated about different kinds of crossfeed and "speaker emulation" software.  They all just seemed to color, alter, or otherwise mess with the sound itself rather than creating the actual effect of listening as if through speakers but removed from the room environment.  The Meier one I guess is transparent but even in the lowest setting, it's too much for me and kind of just feels like it directly lessens the soundstage (without making it sound more forward like through speakers) and muffles the sound a bit.  If the Naive crossfeed one is the one where you attached the photo to your post on the previous page, then that one I do like actually, though in its case it's kind of the opposite of Meier for me in that it's almost too subtle (and furthermore just messes with the sound if altered more).  I set it at 725 Hz, -14dB, and 23%, and I find that gives it the best balance between different tracks and also keeps things relatively tonally balanced.  Just wanted to get your input on any of the other crossfeeds available, including plug-ins (whether RTAS or VST).  Thanks!

 

[donunus]

The meier xfeed is good. Its similar to the naive xfeed though in that it makes the sound a little thinner than neutral.

 

[Typhoon859]

The meier xfeed is good. Its similar to the naive xfeed though in that it makes the sound a little thinner than neutral.

Hmm, you really think so?  I don't know.  I didn't like it.  It just seems to lower the fidelity of the sound, and yeah, in that sense makes it thinner I guess.  In comparison, the Naive one doesn't seem to distribute the sound throughout the soundstage as much as the Meier.  It keeps it all in the left and right 35% I'd say.  It's also just otherwise more subtle.  
 
In any case, yeah, I compared those myself.  I was wondering if you could tell me which by this point is you favorite (including out of external plug-ins) and how you would compare some others to these two.  Thanks!

 

[castleofargh]

as years passes, I feel like there is not one better for everybody, simply because we have different heads of different sizes and shapes. making both the left/right timing, and the frequency response changes needed for crossfeed simulation, to become personal variables.
 
it's another of those things we can only get working great by random luck, or by trying and deciding for ourselves(at least until we can all 3D scan our body and ear canals ^_^).

 

[Typhoon859]

  as years passes, I feel like there is not one better for everybody, simply because we have different heads of different sizes and shapes. making both the left/right timing, and the frequency response changes needed for crossfeed simulation, to become personal variables.
 
it's another of those things we can only get working great by random luck, or by trying and deciding for ourselves(at least until we can all 3D scan our body and ear canals ^_^).

The factor in this case would be the headphones, not our heads.  Regardless of the size of our heads, the distance of the drivers from our ears are relatively the same regardless.  The way whatever certain crossfeed influences the sound in terms of color, distortion, or frequency balance also would be equally observable by each person.  Plus, in the end, I was regardless simply asking for opinion and I'm sure you'd agree there's nothing wrong with that

 

[castleofargh]

The factor in this case would be the headphones, not our heads.  Regardless of the size of our heads, the distance of the drivers from our ears are relatively the same regardless.  The way whatever certain crossfeed influences the sound in terms of color, distortion, or frequency balance also would be equally observable by each person.  Plus, in the end, I was regardless simply asking for opinion and I'm sure you'd agree there's nothing wrong with that

of course it is our head. to give us an idea of the position of a sound on the left, one big parameter is how long it takes for that sound to reach the right hear after it reached the left. if my head is bigger, that lag will be bigger in everyday's life sounds. so I will need it to still be bigger if I want to feel like it's real when using a crossfeed.
 
another parameter is how much attenuation there will be between the left and right at different frequencies, that depends on the angle it's supposed to be coming from, the shape of the head, the size of the ears, how much will bounce from my shrimp like torso.
 
we all have different experiences in real life because of different morphologies. so when we end up with the same music into the same headphone, we don't necessarily have the same experience because we don't necessarily have the same reference of what reality sounds like. that's what I was going at in last post.
 
of course different headphones just add to the mess when in search for a close to realistic experience.

 

[Typhoon859]

  of course it is our head. to give us an idea of the position of a sound on the left, one big parameter is how long it takes for that sound to reach the right hear after it reached the left. if my head is bigger, that lag will be bigger in everyday's life sounds. so I will need it to still be bigger if I want to feel like it's real when using a crossfeed.
 
another parameter is how much attenuation there will be between the left and right at different frequencies, that depends on the angle it's supposed to be coming from, the shape of the head, the size of the ears, how much will bounce from my shrimp like torso.
 
we all have different experiences in real life because of different morphologies. so when we end up with the same music into the same headphone, we don't necessarily have the same experience because we don't necessarily have the same reference of what reality sounds like. that's what I was going at in last post.
 
of course different headphones just add to the mess when in search for a close to realistic experience.

You're right.  How you said it the first time threw me off XD

Though I'm not sure that translates to us perceiving it differently.  I'm not sure how in tune we are with our relative sense of how a crossfeed translates to sounding relative to real life.  The perception of our ears doesn't ultimately account for the relative size of our heads, so, I still thing we perceive different crossfeeds relatively the same if all other factors are equal.

 

[donunus]

Hmm, you really think so?  I don't know.  I didn't like it.  It just seems to lower the fidelity of the sound, and yeah, in that sense makes it thinner I guess.  In comparison, the Naive one doesn't seem to distribute the sound throughout the soundstage as much as the Meier.  It keeps it all in the left and right 35% I'd say.  It's also just otherwise more subtle.  

 
In any case, yeah, I compared those myself.  I was wondering if you could tell me which by this point is you favorite (including out of external plug-ins) and how you would compare some others to these two.  Thanks!

Oh so far as imaging is concerned, the meier is definitely better for me as well. I was pretty darn impressed that I actually made a thread about it a while back. Right now I use no crossfeed at all though. Try The Jriver crossfeed by the way. Sometimes it works quite nicely.

 

[donunus]

You're right.  How you said it the first time threw me off XD


Though I'm not sure that translates to us perceiving it differently.  I'm not sure how in tune we are with our relative sense of how a crossfeed translates to sounding relative to real life.  The perception of our ears doesn't ultimately account for the relative size of our heads, so, I still thing we perceive different crossfeeds relatively the same if all other factors are equal.

Yes we will hear it the same but we wont think the same way about its realism since we hear things differently in real life. This is why speakers are more universal... The crossfeed is automatic and different for everyone right away due to our body measurements.

 

[Typhoon859]

Oh so far as imaging is concerned, the meier is definitely better for me as well. I was pretty darn impressed that I actually made a thread about it a while back. Right now I use no crossfeed at all though. Try The Jriver crossfeed by the way. Sometimes it works quite nicely.

Why'd you decide against crossfeed?  I read in a post of yours that you said even the Naive for example is better than no corssfeed at all.
 
I do think the imaging was more accurate on the Meier but as I said, the effect was simply too strong for me and I didn't like the slightly decreased fidelity.
 
I can try different crossfeeds and I'm sure I'd come up with the one I find the most balanced, most transparent, and/or otherwise best (at the very least for me).  Given how much time you put into looking and listening through them, I assumed by now you would have done the same.  And I thought you said the Meier was better than the J-River when you first came across it.  And given that I like the Naive one better, I imagine that'll remain the case.  At any rate, the point would be for it to either be for foobar or a VST/Pro Tools plug-in.
 

Yes we will hear it the same but we wont think the same way about its realism since we hear things differently in real life. This is why speakers are more universal... The crossfeed is automatic and different for everyone right away due to our body measurements.

Well, I think we wouldn't think the same way about it's realism due to the general subjective nature of it, simply rooted in relative experience.  And yes, I think there would be differences in our actual physical perception but again, I don't think it would be because we hear things differently in real life relative to the size of our heads, but rather, other reasons.  That is obviously a factor but I don't think in this case.  Anyway, I agree; the slight difference as to why isn't really relevant.

 

[donunus]

In the end, The colorations the different plugins gave would make me like one over the other depending on the headphones being used. The synergy of the tonality became more important than the effect of the imaging in the end so I went back to using no crossfeed at all.

So far as the sound perception is concerned, I just basically repeated what castleofargh said in a different angle.

 

[Typhoon859]

In the end, The colorations the different plugins gave would make me like one over the other depending on the headphones being used. The synergy of the tonality became more important than the effect of the imaging in the end so I went back to using no crossfeed at all.

So far as the sound perception is concerned, I just basically repeated what castleofargh said in a different angle.

Yeah, I gotcha.  Well alright, so I'm wondering, do you do audio mixing or just an enthusiast?

 

[donunus]

I have had experience in recording and mixing but I'm mostly an enthusiast. Built my own speakers when I was in High school back in the 80s

 

[Typhoon859]

I have had experience in recording and mixing but I'm mostly an enthusiast. Built my own speakers when I was in High school back in the 80s

That's cool!  Well alright, good to know!