[music_man]

i don't mean to be a jerk but i am finding out the "best" "player" is something like an aurender. I am tired of all the issues of a pc. apple is not much better really. no war please. i hooked up my aurender and feel the sq is better than jriver. plus do not need all that stupid stuff to clean the usb. true, the aurender has a $10 smps but the data lines are clean which is what is important. i just like seeing the "big picture" on 32" displays but the aurender ultimately does a better job imo. plus i can completely control it 2-way with my urc. jriver does not play very nice with the urc. really meant for jremote.
 
anyways i found upsampling worse and i do not think you can even do it with the aurender. you plug it into the dac and let it play. granted, this is a high end system to begin with but i am very pleased with the digital sound. i really do not feel like taking out an lp other than to rip it now. i know others will go crazy to get an analog sound viia usb but i am perfectly happy. things move on. like cars today are much different than cars from the 60's. so i think messing with usb to great extent is fruitless. just my opinion. ymmv. with a pc i would use a regen or whatever(and was) with a lps and an aq jb but that is it for me. now i am using nothing but a good cable with the aurender. i just got tired of this. crashes etc. sure, nuc is not very powerful but i certainly do not want fans in here. not going to have a big i7 machine.
 
i am happy with it. i thank you guys for showing me that upsapling or increasing bit depth in software probably sounds worse.
 
if anyone has the means i would skip software at this point. so, thats the best software! none! that of course is imo and ymmv.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  i don't mean to be a jerk but i am finding out the "best" "player" is something like an aurender. I am tired of all the issues of a pc. apple is not much better really. no war please. i hooked up my aurender and feel the sq is better than jriver. plus do not need all that stupid stuff to clean the usb. true, the aurender has a $10 smps but the data lines are clean which is what is important. i just like seeing the "big picture" on 32" displays but the aurender ultimately does a better job imo. plus i can completely control it 2-way with my urc. jriver does not play very nice with the urc. really meant for jremote.
 
anyways i found upsampling worse and i do not think you can even do it with the aurender. you plug it into the dac and let it play. granted, this is a high end system to begin with but i am very pleased with the digital sound. i really do not feel like taking out an lp other than to rip it now. i know others will go crazy to get an analog sound viia usb but i am perfectly happy. things move on. like cars today are much different than cars from the 60's. so i think messing with usb to great extent is fruitless. just my opinion. ymmv. with a pc i would use a regen or whatever(and was) with a lps and an aq jb but that is it for me. now i am using nothing but a good cable with the aurender. i just got tired of this. crashes etc. sure, nuc is not very powerful but i certainly do not want fans in here. not going to have a big i7 machine.
 
i am happy with it. i thank you guys for showing me that upsapling or increasing bit depth in software probably sounds worse.
 
if anyone has the means i would skip software at this point. so, thats the best software! none! that of course is imo and ymmv.

 
The Aurender is a network player and music server. It still uses software. But despite costing many thousands, there are solutions under $1,000 that beat it.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/787020/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box/315#post_12575069
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/5940#post_13067878

 

[TheAttorney]

I fully agree with the frustrations of getting high end sound out of PC audio. And I fully appreciate the attractions of a dedicated Aurender-like solution.
But in terms of best SQ, I have demonstrated to myself that my little Windows laptop (with a few tweaks as per that thread) had better SQ than the top Aurender (W20 I think it was when briefly compered). But boy was it frustrating to get to that point - it's the networking aspect that was a big learning curve for me.
 
This area is changing and improving so fast in the last year that I'm waiting for the dust to settle before reconsidering dedicated servers as a potential final solution. 

 

[music_man]

i am interested whats better for a grand? i am sure there is.
 
attorney, i imagine you cannot explain what all you did here. i have had it with pc audio. don't you have dave too? i thought you did but maybe wrong guy. some lawyer here has one i think.
 
when much better comes out i will just get it. of course than there will be better dacs. what does not really change at this point is amplifiers and loudspeakers. the technology is tried and true. not much development going on there. all that is special about the ax-5 twenty is the volume control. otherwise plenty of amps are quite frankly better imo. i still like it for a tight space.
 
i am very interested in what will be coming but of course i will have to wait. i feel the aurender sounds better than the pc but it is still not as good as a high end shiny disc spinner either imo. if i really want to enjoy something i play the disc. vinyl is it's own beast but i can't be bothered with it anymore. so now tens of thousands of lp's collect dust here. i think a very good disc spinner is my favorite sound to date. it easily beats the aurender and miles ahead of the pc. the meridian 808 reads the disc to ram. in that regard it is kind of unique. ram does sound good but these usb devices have too much noise. get this, my best sound form the spinner is not aes. it is a pof fiber toslink! from transparent audio. to me it beats the aq diamond quartz. it is odd though i would favor toslink to aes to begin with but whatever works.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  i am interested whats better for a grand? i am sure there is.

 
Read the two posts I linked to.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I have been into PC audio both with a PC and Apple. And yes some days all is fine, then other days I seem to notice timing issues with both Apple and PC playback.

It's realizing that timing is everything. The PC and DAC playback is sonically detailed but there are timing issues which both analogue tape and vinyl perform better at. Strangely vinyl and tape suffer from a bad noise floor as well as single to noise ratio. Tape and vinyl too can have changes in timing but it somehow achieves something that digital lacks, at least with USB implications. That's why I like spinning the silver disks.

Using CDs helps me arrive at the best of both worlds. The USB timing issues are gone as I just use a coaxial digital cable from a transport to the DAC. I do oversample but think 16/44.1 is fine.

Taking the USB out of the equation gets a slightly better timing and you still have the silent noise floor of digital. Most of my music is in CD form so it just works.


In the end it's about having an emotional musical experience. Normally those experiences come from getting closer to the music file and hearing slight details.

Timing is a strange issue as when the timing is wrong you can't at times put your finger on it. Even the consistent placement of instruments and vocals are a timing issue. So it even effects soundstage.

 

[music_man]

thats weird. timing should not be an issue. set your buffer higher? i have the microrendu. do not like roon or pc anymore really. if that is the one you meant. the aurender is "like" a stereo component.

 

[Redcarmoose]

thats weird. timing should not be an issue. set your buffer higher? i have the microrendu. do not like roon or pc anymore really. if that is the one you meant. the aurender is "like" a stereo component.

Timing has been the subject of talk for years. I use Amarra with Apple and Foobar 2000 with PC. At times CDs sound better but not always. I thinks it's nice to at least have regular CDs for comparison.

 

[Redcarmoose]

thats weird. timing should not be an issue. set your buffer higher? i have the microrendu. do not like roon or pc anymore really. if that is the one you meant. the aurender is "like" a stereo component.

https://www.moon-audio.com/aurender-x100l-digital-music-player.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&gclid=COyJ-ZmHutICFc2Kswody1cN2g&ad=106141898121


That's cool. Always like to see the option of taking the computer out of the equation. All this is just what a person personally feels sounds best. Much of the soundstage and soundstage timing issue and jitter paranoia is just that, thinking you can notice small fragments of jitter, when for most purposes it's been reduced to non-perceivable levels.

Still my next source purchase would maybe be a stand alone CD player still.

Most of the issues talked about in this thread DID relate to having buffers not set right in the beginning or also there was the question of synchronous or asynchronous USB years ago. Now as far as I know most use is now asynchronous.

This is the same realm where folks seem to hear a difference from USB cables or USB conditioners. It could be a mental thing but pretty much every computer sound slightly different to me. Again it's almost perception due to thinking that there may be something to perceive?

 

[vcoheda]

i have often thought, maybe it is imaginary, that playing music through my CD player (either redbook or sacd) sounded better than playing the same through my computer. however, my usage is still heavily weighted toward my desktop due to convenience of use and downloading.
 
i'm not sure why the aurender, or other music server, would be better than a laptop/desktop. it is still a computer-type device in that it stores music on a HD and uses software to play files. maybe i am missing something.
 
putting the difference (real or not) in sound quality aside, i would say that computer audio has had a positive effect on my music listening. i listen to much more of my collection as well as new music and artists than before.

 

[Music Alchemist]

i'm not sure why the aurender, or other music server, would be better than a laptop/desktop. it is still a computer-type device in that it stores music on a HD and uses software to play files. maybe i am missing something.

 
Going from the impressions of owners, it would appear that network players (such as this one) improve the sound quality, while what you use as the server (computer or other dedicated device) doesn't matter. (Though some disagree and say that both matter.) I got slightly better sound quality (compared to my laptop, using the same DAC) with a Raspberry Pi I borrowed, but it wasn't enough of an improvement to bother buying it. I'll have to wait and see how the serious network players are later on...

 

[Redcarmoose]

i have often thought, maybe it is imaginary, that playing music through my CD player (either redbook or sacd) sounded better than playing the same through my computer. however, my usage is still heavily weighted toward my desktop due to convenience of use and downloading.

i'm not sure why the aurender, or other music server, would be better than a laptop/desktop. it is still a computer-type device in that it stores music on a HD and uses software to play files. maybe i am missing something.

putting the difference (real or not) in sound quality aside, i would say that computer audio has had a positive effect on my music listening. i listen to much more of my collection as well as new music and artists than before.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. If anything it's small, but still that's what we are doing here, working at improving small details. Still if your mind focuses on small areas of the music reproduction, it can isolate the issue and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's kind of a slight loss clarity using a computer apposed to silver disks. It's maybe not just a timing issue but is the result of inherent noise with USB.

USB was never designed with audio as a main funtion as it's just a protocol that evolved with computer audio due to popularity. In many ways it's an accident that we use USB. Still with improvements always changing we should see computer audio get better and better over the next 5 years.

Due to connivence I too find myself using USB, still my most rewarding listens are from those shinny disks. It could be placebo for all I know?

 

[music_man]

the aurender does not hold a candle to the meridian 808. i personally feel no current player software, or quasi hardware can beat a top spinner. if i really want to enjoy a lovely disc i spin it always. i have a secret if you want one. old top of the line dvd players into a dac make very good setups. these players are most often less than a few hundred bucks. you want to look at highest end sony es and pioneer elite for instance. however with these you really need to use a cd mat. those are not expensive either. i use a mat with the 808 too as it is just a dvd riom drive. the disc shaking is not good. other high end spinners have a clamp.  it is the same if you like vinyl. ripped vinyl is just not the same as a good tt setup. the issue is now a days we want all the convenience. shuffle through 50,000 songs without getting up. well, there is a loss in sound quality with that imo. it depends what your priories are. i would go transport>music server>software. as far as sound quality. also you can find very old transports for cheap. with the philips swin arm in them. the problem is these might last days or years. 
 
wanted to mention, it is the aurender w20 and the high end disc spinner still blows it away in sq imo. as i said you can luckily probably get a high end spinner cheap if that is the way you want to go. if you value sq more. of course you will need a pretty good dac to make the difference. those old players are 16 bit mostly. i found the spinner into the dac and let the dac play 192,24 sounds great. i also found a high end pof toslink was the best connection of all things!

 

[castleofargh]

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. If anything it's small, but still that's what we are doing here, working at improving small details. Still if your mind focuses on small areas of the music reproduction, it can isolate the issue and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's kind of a slight loss clarity using a computer apposed to silver disks. It's maybe not just a timing issue but is the result of inherent noise with USB.

USB was never designed with audio as a main funtion as it's just a protocol that evolved with computer audio due to popularity. In many ways it's an accident that we use USB. Still with improvements always changing we should see computer audio get better and better over the next 5 years.

Due to connivence I too find myself using USB, still my most rewarding listens are from those shinny disks. It could be placebo for all I know?

yes and no. DACs do use a dedicated audio streaming method. if they used the typical data protocol for external hard disc, a few matters would be solved, but other problems would come up.
personally when USB was picked I thought it was stupid and didn't get why they didn't at least go for firewire. to this day I'm not sure and feel like USB became what it is only because it's dirt cheap.
 
now usb C is like 8billion pins over the size of a fingernail, and I wonder why they didn't go with HDMI or at least mix both into one final product. if they're going to stack more than 20 pins into one cable anyway, isn't the purpose to at least get rid of other cables?
bah, it's not like we'll have our say in those types of decisions anyway.

 

[Redcarmoose]

yes and no. DACs do use a dedicated audio streaming method. if they used the typical data protocol for external hard disc, a few matters would be solved, but other problems would come up.
personally when USB was picked I thought it was stupid and didn't get why they didn't at least go for firewire. to this day I'm not sure and feel like USB became what it is only because it's dirt cheap.

now usb C is like 8billion pins over the size of a fingernail, and I wonder why they didn't go with HDMI or at least mix both into one final product. if they're going to stack more than 20 pins into one cable anyway, isn't the purpose to at least get rid of other cables?
bah, it's not like we'll have our say in those types of decisions anyway.

I know nothing about USB but it seems a whole sub market was indroduced to band-aid issues. It seems though that besides USB protocol even the start of the digital stream via the computer replication of the 16bit 44.1 file also seems to incite issues.

Folks here may be pleasantly amazed how a $15 dollar DVD transport from KMart would trump a computer when done coaxial out to an external DAC.

And again maybe this is placebo maybe not. I feel no messurments have ever been produced only thoeory and sales talk. If a member spends 8K to 10K on a stand alone CD player they are already onboard before the listening even starts.