[extrabigmehdi]

Any interest for "modern composers" ?
I've been asking myself for long  if an artist like Ludovico Einaudi, could be considered as classical.
But then I've decided to  create new classical categories to tag such music.
So I  tag Ludovico Einaudi as "Classical Ambient".
 
It's interesting to see all the top "modern  composers"  tagged as "classical" at last.fm:
you see :
Ludovico Einaudi
Philip Glass
Howard Shore
Lindsey Stirling
Arvo Pärt
Michael Nyman
 
http://www.last.fm/tag/classical/artists?page=1
 
I've seen also some modern tendencies regarding classical music (that doesn't sound to me like classical at all).
atonal, electroaccoustic, "music concrete", serialism....
Such stuff are  usually not "popular", although it seems they got some attention because of the soundtracks of  Stanley Kubrick films.
I  like weird stuff like  xenakis (bohor especially) , but I  find it hard to consider it as classical.
 
There are stuff , relatively popular, I  tag as "classical crossover".
Take classical music, makes it a bit bombastic, makes it played by sexy people , mix it the same way as pop music ......
This gives artist like  vanessa mae , bond, Emma Shapplin ...
 
Well sorry, for what may seem a digression.  But I  feel some people are praising a bit too much old records

, while it's not as if new content is missing.
 
 

 

[bigshot]

Later in the 20th century, jazz had completely eclipsed classical music when it came to new compositions. I consider Ellington to be the Mozart or Beethoven of our time.

 

[Drosera]

   
Sometimes it depends on the transfer. A lot of older recordings are poorly served by big labels. Here is a transfer I did myself from the original shellac of Schnabel's Diabelli Variations. This is a great example of a performance that has never been bettered. The sound quality is a bit distant, but with a faithful transfer and playing back on speakers, not headphones, it sounds perfectly acceptable. The performance is spectacular.
 
http://www.vintageip.com/xfers/schnabeldiabellis.mp3

 
Nice! Thanks for this. I look forward to listening to it later. (On headphones, because that works fine for me.)
 

  Any interest for "modern composers" ?
I've been asking myself for long  if an artist like Ludovico Einaudi, could be considered as classical.
But then I've decided to  create new classical categories to tag such music.
So I  tag Ludovico Einaudi as "Classical Ambient".
 
It's interesting to see all the top "modern  composers"  tagged as "classical" at last.fm:
you see :
Ludovico Einaudi
Philip Glass
Howard Shore
Lindsey Stirling
Arvo Pärt
Michael Nyman
 

 
Well, I was very glad to find out the Universal finally decided to rerelease their great Messiaen collection. I would certainly call myself a fan of both Lutoslawski and Penderecki (hey, at least one of those is still alive

).
 
As to Glass, Pärt, et al. I've never quite understood the attraction.Their music doesn't speak to me at all, and for them to be considered 'modern' (in my personal sense of the word) I would think they would have to do far more in developing new ways to express themselves musically. (In this sense, Rachmaninov wasn't a modern composer in his day either, nor was Bach for that matter.) Not that that doesn't mean they're not composing beautiful music (just not music that manages to grab me). I could say far less friendly things about Howard Shore, whom I consider one of the most overrated musical figures of our time...but perhaps I should stop here.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

  Well, I was very glad to find out the Universal finally decided to rerelease their great Messiaen collection. I would certainly call myself a fan of both Lutoslawski and Penderecki (hey, at least one of those is still alive

).

Lutoslawki ... and one artist I've never heard about. There's way too much stuff to discover.
 

 
As to Glass, Pärt, et al. I've never quite understood the attraction.Their music doesn't speak to me at all

 
 
Well, I've been a bit fascinated by the way , the advocate of Marc Dutroux praised the music of "the hours" soundtrack (composed by philip glass)  , during a   reportage. He said he'd listen a lot of music while working. And while listening a part of "the hours" soundtrack he explained :
"Listen  to that cello ...That repeats itself ....
We expect each time that the harmony change ...
It doesn't change... This is very long ...
And now .... Just like after the suffering ..
the tension ... there would be a relief ...
And I  wish that the end of trial would be like that "
(You see the guy almost crying)
 
It's at begin of the video ( 2 min) , but in french:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4hv6x_3
 

 
I could say far less friendly things about Howard Shore, whom I consider one of the most overrated musical figures of our time
 

Well, I've read nothing but praise  about him. I found his music a bit bland (having "lord of ring soundtrack" in mind), although it works well as a soundtrack: music doesn't  grab attention but it enhances the film experience. There's no musical piece from Howard Shore, that I found memorable (yet).

 

[amigomatt]

"All you need to write like him is a large bottle of ink." Stravinsky on Messiaen

 

[mbhaub]

That's for sure. In the hands of a poor player, a Strad sounds no better than a $1000 Sears special. But a great player can make even a lesser quality instrument sound much better. I wonder how many listeners can really tell the difference anyway between a Strad or Guaneri and a more recent, well-made instrument.

 

[Hutnicks]

  That's for sure. In the hands of a poor player, a Strad sounds no better than a $1000 Sears special. But a great player can make even a lesser quality instrument sound much better. I wonder how many listeners can really tell the difference anyway between a Strad or Guaneri and a more recent, well-made instrument.

In blind testing very few "experts" can tell the difference between a strad and a modern well made instrument.

 

[Quinto]

 
In blind testing very few "experts" can tell the difference between a strad and a modern well made instrument.

This might be, but I never heard a cello sound as beautiful as the Stradivarius Servais..
 
I mean we're talking source here, not bloody cables

 

[Hutnicks]

 
This might be, but I never heard a cello sound as beautiful as the Stradivarius Servais..
 
I mean we're talking source here, not bloody cables

There is of course the argument to be made that you rarely see 'Strads in the hands of any but the elite of the trade. So the actual "Source" is at the mesospheric end of the spectrum.
 
Just for kicks readers may find Mutter's instruments in use an interesting read.

 

[Drosera]

I've read the story about Heifetz that, when he used to teach, he would always use a very simple and cheap violin. In that way, none of his students would be able to say: "I could play like that if I had that expensive Stradivarius/Guarneri." And, of course (the story goes), Heifetz could still get a more beautiful sound from that cheap violin than any of his students could from their far more expensive instruments.

 

[Drosera]

"All you need to write like him is a large bottle of ink." Stravinsky on Messiaen

 
Given the unending stream of utter dullness that he managed to produce later in life, I really couldn't care less about Stravinsky's opinion.
 

  Lutoslawki ... and one artist I've never heard about. There's way too much stuff to discover.
 
 
 
Well, I've been a bit fascinated by the way , the advocate of Marc Dutroux praised the music of "the hours" soundtrack (composed by philip glass)  , during a   reportage. He said he'd listen a lot of music while working. And while listening a part of "the hours" soundtrack he explained :
"Listen  to that cello ...That repeats itself ....
We expect each time that the harmony change ...
It doesn't change... This is very long ...
And now .... Just like after the suffering ..
the tension ... there would be a relief ...
And I  wish that the end of trial would be like that "
(You see the guy almost crying)
 
It's at begin of the video ( 2 min) , but in french:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4hv6x_3
 
Well, I've read nothing but praise  about him. I found his music a bit bland (having "lord of ring soundtrack" in mind), although it works well as a soundtrack: music doesn't  grab attention but it enhances the film experience. There's no musical piece from Howard Shore, that I found memorable (yet).

 
That's a beautiful fragment, that interview with Dutroux's lawyer. I can understand that the music would intrigue you for that reason alone.
 
The Lord of the Rings soundtrack sounds like very bad Sibelius to me, for the most part. It works for the movie, I guess (of which I'm not a fan either), but I can't really understand the high esteem Shore is held in. There are so many better composers of film music alone. (A personal favourite of mine would be Hisaishi Jo (or Joe Hisaishi), for example. The early work of Jerry Goldsmith I find intriguing as well.)
 
Notice, by the way, how I completely sidestepped your original question on what could be considered classical music...because I really don't have a clue how to answer that.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

The Lord of the Rings soundtrack sounds like very bad Sibelius to me, for the most part. It works for the movie, I guess (of which I'm not a fan either), but I can't really understand the high esteem Shore is held in. There are so many better composers of film music alone. (A personal favourite of mine would be Hisaishi Jo (or Joe Hisaishi), for example. The early work of Jerry Goldsmith I find intriguing as well.)

Since honestly I don't know what is bad Sibelius ...  Usually , I don't listen to full soundtracks but the tracks that "stand out". But in the case of Howard Shore, nothing seems to stand out

.
Otherwise my "favorite soundtrack" is Solaris from Cliff Martinez. I remind how I  thought that the film sucks, but I've still watched the whole film just because I was fascinated by the music.
I  listen more to game soundtrack, especially Nobuo Uematsu.
 

Notice, by the way, how I completely sidestepped your original question on what could be considered classical music...because I really don't have a clue how to answer that.

 

I look at the top tags at last.fm . If the artist has associated to him the tag "classical", but not the tags "ambient", "experimental",  "minimal" ,  "new age" , "crossover", "fusion", "avant-garde", "electroacoustic" , "music concrete", "serialism", "atonal", "noise" , "stochastic"  ;  then I consider it's "true classical"

(i.e the one that everyone seems to have in mind in this thread).

 

[extrabigmehdi]

In my endless quest of finding weird/unusual stuff ; what about classical piece with either an "occult" or "mystical" background ?
 

So far here are the stuff I've found:
 
Olivier Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time.
It's interesting to know that it was composed in a Prisoner-of-war camp.
Perhaps he thought he'll die there, hence the title.
 

 
 
 
George Crumb - Black Angels
Creepy musical piece, and the name evoke  "angel bannished from heaven".
 

 
 
 
George Gurdjieff, or music composed for him by Thomas De Hartman.
Well , George Gurdjieffis is a guy that taught  some esoterism, I don't know more.
 

 
 
Gavin Bryars - Jesus' Blood Never Failed Me Yet
Is it true "classical" ? He used a recording from a trump, that died before the musical composition was released.
 

 
 
Charles Ives - Concord Sonata Charles Ives
Well according to wikipedia, it's a musical piece associated to "transcendentalism"
which was a kind of spiritual movement in US.
 

 
 
John Tavener - Towards Silence
A work, related to "near death experience".
 

 

[Drosera]

 
I look at the top tags at last.fm . If the artist has associated to him the tag "classical", but not the tags "ambient", "experimental",  "minimal" ,  "new age" , "crossover", "fusion", "avant-garde", "electroacoustic" , "music concrete", "serialism", "atonal", "noise" , "stochastic"  ;  then I consider it's "true classical"

(i.e the one that everyone seems to have in mind in this thread).

 
 
Funny that, I don't have a problem with seeing most of these terms in combination with 'classical' and still considering it classical music. (Although I had to look up 'stochastic'. I know what it means, but I never considered the possibility of there being 'stochastic music'.) But you're right that at least that wouldn't be the kind of 'classical music' that the general public would recognize as such. But then again, what does the general public know?
 

  In my endless quest of finding weird/unusual stuff ; what about classical piece with either an "occult" or "mystical" background ?
 

So far here are the stuff I've found:
 
Olivier Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time.
It's interesting to know that it was composed in a Prisoner-of-war camp.
Perhaps he thought he'll die there, hence the title.
 

 
I doubt Messiaen was very concerned with the possibility of his own death, it's more likely that he saw in the second world war all kinds of portents signifying that the end of the world might be near. So, that work is mostly based on Revelations. There's actually hardly any work by Messiaen that isn't completely suffused with catholic mysticism. (That, and bird calls.)
 
One of the most creepy works I know is the unfinished Debussy opera La Chute de la Maison Usher (The Fall of the House of Usher). Based on the story by Edgar Allan Poe.
 

 
Prog-rock fans might know this, as a large part of it was used in slightly reworked form on the Alan Parsons album Tales of Mystery and Imagination. (Without giving any credit to Debussy in most of the releases.)
 
Bartok's BlueBeard's Castle is pretty disturbing too.
 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

I 'm not a fan of  operas, but for something well known to be creepy , there's "Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima" by Penderecki.