Best classical recordings...ever!
Mar 7, 2016 at 4:49 PM Post #7,771 of 9,368
 
Sorry to disappoint you, I am not a neuro-surgeon, my background is Humanities. I just mentioned an article I read some time ago. You may believe it or not, or bring proof of your own to support your  point. We are not in a university here, so nobody gets bad notes for being unable to prove something. We are having a discussion on music and musicians, or so I gather.

 
 
Ok.
 
However in the keyboard realm alone, logic suggests (to me at least) that the organ must surpass the piano in terms of cognitive and physical difficulty due to the inclusion of pitches via foot.
 
However even a blind guy like Helmut Walcha could play the entire organ works of Bach (among other things) so how hard could it be???
 
Mar 7, 2016 at 9:01 PM Post #7,772 of 9,368
   
 
Ok.
 
However in the keyboard realm alone, logic suggests (to me at least) that the organ must surpass the piano in terms of cognitive and physical difficulty due to the inclusion of pitches via foot.
 
However even a blind guy like Helmut Walcha could play the entire organ works of Bach (among other things) so how hard could it be???

 
There are smiley's to indicate irony, humor, tongue in cheek etc. to clarify one's intentions in written posts, these might be helpful
rolleyes.gif
.
Otherwise one could assume such statements as ignorant and insulting or you are simply having a pretty bad day
confused.gif

 
But thanks anyway to point him out, I had never heard about him as organ music is not my favorite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Walcha
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 3:07 AM Post #7,773 of 9,368
   
 
Ok.
 
However in the keyboard realm alone, logic suggests (to me at least) that the organ must surpass the piano in terms of cognitive and physical difficulty due to the inclusion of pitches via foot.
 
However even a blind guy like Helmut Walcha could play the entire organ works of Bach (among other things) so how hard could it be???

It's not sensitive to touch. So you don't have to use a lot of force with different variations to produce dynamic effects, and the removal of tone colour makes it easier. The feet can be quite overwhelming especially in certain repertoire like Reger, but you never get hand coordination requirements as severe as on difficult repertoire on the piano. Also the console is much narrower than the keyboard...
 
There are many individuals who overcome their handicaps to do great things, you can't really extrapolate the difficulty of something from that, rather it makes those individuals more amazing. (or maybe you are just being facetious) 
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 4:08 AM Post #7,774 of 9,368
I was just reading about pianos, since I neither play or consider myself an expert listener of piano music. 
 
I know some of you guys here are piano connoisseurs, and I'm interested in your opinions on the importance of the instrument itself to the recording. I was just reading a great blog about the new-ish brand Fazioli, which has been lauded and criticized. It's an interesting read if you're into pianos. I'm not particularly, but as a very amateur acoustic guitarist with friends who are seriously into that instrument, I know the instrument can be a key component to the absolute sound of a recording, and a great player can sound even better with the right tool. 
 
https://crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/19/playing-a-fazioli/
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 4:13 AM Post #7,775 of 9,368
  I was just reading about pianos, since I neither play or consider myself an expert listener of piano music. 
 
I know some of you guys here are piano connoisseurs, and I'm interested in your opinions on the importance of the instrument itself to the recording. I was just reading a great blog about the new-ish brand Fazioli, which has been lauded and criticized. It's an interesting read if you're into pianos. I'm not particularly, but as a very amateur acoustic guitarist with friends who are seriously into that instrument, I know the instrument can be a key component to the absolute sound of a recording, and a great player can sound even better with the right tool. 
 
https://crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/19/playing-a-fazioli/

It's great the Fazioli, I wrote about different makes few pages back. The only problem is that it's quite temperamental and in terms of robustness, the steinways come out on top.
 
Touch is also very sensitive, which isn't always a good thing, but it sounds stunning when it's in its optimal state. crystalline sound, resonant, and the company is constantly doing R & D and the full size has a fourth pedal that acts as a soft pedal without dampening the sound. cool stuff 
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 4:29 AM Post #7,776 of 9,368
Can you recommend any recordings that highlight it's awesomeness? Or any other piano recordings where the tone of the piano itself stood out? Of course, two or three examples are enough.
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 4:37 AM Post #7,777 of 9,368
 
 
Sorry to disappoint you, I am not a neuro-surgeon, my background is Humanities. I just mentioned an article I read some time ago. You may believe it or not, or bring proof of your own to support your  point. We are not in a university here, so nobody gets bad notes for being unable to prove something. We are having a discussion on music and musicians, or so I gather.

 
 
Ok.
 
However in the keyboard realm alone, logic suggests (to me at least) that the organ must surpass the piano in terms of cognitive and physical difficulty due to the inclusion of pitches via foot.
 
However even a blind guy like Helmut Walcha could play the entire organ works of Bach (among other things) so how hard could it be???

You are joking, right?
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 5:16 AM Post #7,778 of 9,368
  I was just reading about pianos, since I neither play or consider myself an expert listener of piano music. 
 
I know some of you guys here are piano connoisseurs, and I'm interested in your opinions on the importance of the instrument itself to the recording. I was just reading a great blog about the new-ish brand Fazioli, which has been lauded and criticized. It's an interesting read if you're into pianos. I'm not particularly, but as a very amateur acoustic guitarist with friends who are seriously into that instrument, I know the instrument can be a key component to the absolute sound of a recording, and a great player can sound even better with the right tool. 
 
https://crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/19/playing-a-fazioli/


If you have not already, you might like to read 'Grand Obsession'  (a piano odyssey) by Perri Knize.. It's about one woman's obsessive search for the perfect piano
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 7:19 AM Post #7,779 of 9,368
 
If you have not already, you might like to read 'Grand Obsession'  (a piano odyssey) by Perri Knize.. It's about one woman's obsessive search for the perfect piano


Cool. Just ordered it -- 0.01 cents from Amazon.
 
A good, but opinionated, guide to pianists is David Dubal's
 
516xCvq-aOL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 
Mar 8, 2016 at 7:23 AM Post #7,780 of 9,368
  It's great the Fazioli, I wrote about different makes few pages back.

 
 
  I was just reading about pianos, since I neither play or consider myself an expert listener of piano music. 
 
I know some of you guys here are piano connoisseurs, and I'm interested in your opinions on the importance of the instrument itself to the recording. I was just reading a great blog about the new-ish brand Fazioli, which has been lauded and criticized. It's an interesting read if you're into pianos. I'm not particularly, but as a very amateur acoustic guitarist with friends who are seriously into that instrument, I know the instrument can be a key component to the absolute sound of a recording, and a great player can sound even better with the right tool. 
 
https://crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/19/playing-a-fazioli/

 
Yes, uchi wrote me about diff pianos, a while back. Here is his unedited text, fyi. Hope that's ok.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
There's so much variability, depending on year of production, line etc. Balance, and tonalities can always be altered to a degree by technicians. All well made pianos, should be balanced.

Yamaha: lighter touch, mass produced, is similar to steinways except that they are just slightly inferior in every department. The concert grands are really good, but the jump up between the standard sized models and the concert grand is quite significant. the newer ones are quite a lot better than the previous models, with better 'ivory and ebony' like keys, touch and a singing tone. Easier to play in some ways than steinways due to the touch, and so you can play quieter more easily.
 
steinways: great in every department and starting from the smallest grands to the concert grands, it's all remarkable pieces of engineering. People tend to complain that sometimes they have a quite hard touch but this can always be modified by the technicians. Out of all the brands, they are the most consistent and easy to maintain over time. A 10 year old yamaha is going to be 70 or 80% of what the original was like, whereas the steinways have incredible longevity (rigid german engineering at its best). They are very sonorous, and have great tone in the lowest registers, which the yamahas often lack. Reminds me of a porsche.

Pleyels: they have gone out of production in 2013? Not sure. I have only played one or two ones made in the 80s and 90s. Really light touch, sounds very anemic compared to the sonority of pianos made by steinway/bosendorfer/yamaha but has a very delicate singing tone. Makes sense why chopin played them. Quite similar to Bechsteins.

Bosendorfer: I have only been to one showroom briefly. I think their glory years have long gone by. Seem to follow the old piano traditions. Lighter touch, not as good as modern day top of the line yamahas and steinways. The full size grand has some extra keys in the lowest registers, which I think is more a gimmick than anything, as you don't ever really use it. The ones I played sounded 'thinner' than modern day steinways and yamahas.
 
Faziolis: In a league of their own. They have patented technologies when it comes to using pyramidal supports for the strings, which increases resonance. So from the smaller sized pianos to the largest, they sound more sonorous than their rivals. Incredibly beautiful touch, so even, light and smooth from bottom to top. Their high registers sing like no piano I have ever heard. Their concert grand is the largest in the world at 3.08m and has a fourth pedal for 'softening' the sound without altering its timbre. The only problem with them is that they are quite temperamental and is very difficult to keep in tip top condition unlike the germans. It's also easy to play super super quietly or super loudly due to the touch, but it's also easy to hit a lot of wrong notes due to how responsive the action is. (Steinways still have better lower register voicing.)
Given the choice, I would go with fazioli, steinway, and yamaha to perform
but to own, it would have to be the steinway  
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 8:06 AM Post #7,781 of 9,368
Sorry if I missed that among all the cat fights going on here 
biggrin.gif
... 
 
Still would love, if possible to know when a couple of these top pianos are used in a recording:
 
Just saw this interesting note on Schiff's ECM recordings and thought it would be an interesting note to add, since I do love their recording techniques personally (and I don't care if it's not how a real concert sounds). (https://www.ecmrecords.com/catalogue/143038752508/ludwig-van-beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-volume-i-andras-schiff)
 
ECM now presents Schiff’s long awaited first cycle of the complete 32 sonatas. The pianist opted for live-recordings. The concert situation not only facilitates communicative immediacy, but also creates musical suspense. András Schiff uses two different grand pianos: a Bösendorfer, which, as he says himself, “is adequate to the Vienna dialect”, which he likes in the early Beethoven, and a Steinway maintained by the internationally renowned piano technicians Fabbrini from Italy. Schiff rates the Steinway as the more objective and powerful instrument he prefers in the more dramatic sonatas. His approach to Beethoven is characterised by utmost conscientiousness: The pianist, who will be touring this fall (with a programme including the Sonatas op. 31 and the “Waldstein” Sonata), not only scrutinizes the composer’s manuscripts kept in various libraries and institutes, but also studies the sound and playing techniques of the pianos Beethoven had at his disposal.
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 8:26 AM Post #7,782 of 9,368
  Sorry if I missed that among all the cat fights going on here 
biggrin.gif
... 
 
Still would love, if possible to know when a couple of these top pianos are used in a recording:
 
Just saw this interesting note on Schiff's ECM recordings and thought it would be an interesting note to add, since I do love their recording techniques personally (and I don't care if it's not how a real concert sounds). (https://www.ecmrecords.com/catalogue/143038752508/ludwig-van-beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-volume-i-andras-schiff)
 
ECM now presents Schiff’s long awaited first cycle of the complete 32 sonatas. The pianist opted for live-recordings. The concert situation not only facilitates communicative immediacy, but also creates musical suspense. András Schiff uses two different grand pianos: a Bösendorfer, which, as he says himself, “is adequate to the Vienna dialect”, which he likes in the early Beethoven, and a Steinway maintained by the internationally renowned piano technicians Fabbrini from Italy. Schiff rates the Steinway as the more objective and powerful instrument he prefers in the more dramatic sonatas. His approach to Beethoven is characterised by utmost conscientiousness: The pianist, who will be touring this fall (with a programme including the Sonatas op. 31 and the “Waldstein” Sonata), not only scrutinizes the composer’s manuscripts kept in various libraries and institutes, but also studies the sound and playing techniques of the pianos Beethoven had at his disposal.

 
It wasn't a catfight. 
confused.gif


I was about to remark that Schiff uses a Bosie. Buchbinder also does too, I think. Personally, I like the sounds of a Steinway and Fazzie, for solo piano pieces by the Big Three -- LvB, Mozart, and Schubert.
 
I saw one of Beethoven's pianos in Vienna in 2014, at the Pasqualatihaus in central Wien. It has 5 pedals. Fascinating.
 
http://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/beethoven-pasqualatihaus.html
 
640px-Beethoven_Pasqualatihaus_Wien1.jpg

 
beethoven_pasqualatihaus_original.jpg

 
But I would love to know also, which discs use which pianos.
confused.gif
 
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM Post #7,784 of 9,368
   
There are smiley's to indicate irony, humor, tongue in cheek etc. to clarify one's intentions in written posts, these might be helpful
rolleyes.gif
.
Otherwise one could assume such statements as ignorant and insulting or you are simply having a pretty bad day
confused.gif

 
But thanks anyway to point him out, I had never heard about him as organ music is not my favorite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Walcha

 
 
Considering Walcha was such a towering figure I figured the sarcasm would be obvious.
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 10:39 AM Post #7,785 of 9,368

For all the young people (
angry_face.gif
) here looking to embrace the title of this thread and maybe educate yourselves in the process ( 
tongue.gif
 ):
 

 
 
For the already knowing MR. B of course is the legendary organist whom Bach walked over 200 miles to see play as a young man.
 
 
EDIT: No joke here folks.
 

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