[CanadianMaestro]

   
-edit- You and Gould have at least one thing in common, you both like to exaggerate your point, is that a Canadian thing?

Not really.

 

[serman005]

Beethoven: Symphonies 5 & 7/ Kleiber/VPO (DG)--definitely on my top twenty list.

 

[jdpark]

Interesting story about the only living harpsichordist who's name I can recall... an Iranian, who recently got booed in Köln for not speaking German at a performance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iranian-musician-forced-to-stop-cologne-concert-after-audience-members-jeer-and-shout-speak-german-a6909066.html

 

[uchihaitachi]

Interesting story about the only living harpsichordist who's name I can recall... an Iranian, who recently got booed in Köln for not speaking German at a performance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iranian-musician-forced-to-stop-cologne-concert-after-audience-members-jeer-and-shout-speak-german-a6909066.html

esfahani, a friend of mine was at the concert, comical really 

 

[Quinto]

Interesting story about the only living harpsichordist who's name I can recall... an Iranian, who recently got booed in Köln for not speaking German at a performance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iranian-musician-forced-to-stop-cologne-concert-after-audience-members-jeer-and-shout-speak-german-a6909066.html

Urgh..some people are so bloody dumb..

..sad

 

[perhapss]

  I don't know why your age has come in on this discussion? Likewise I was born and raised among musicians. I also never said that decline isn't due to multifaceted factors, but I was addressing canadianmaestro's point about keeping top of the pile and I know that pianists even at most conservatoires i've been/visited tend to practice longer hours, and can't 'wing it' during classes but other instrumentalists can often pull that off.
 
In concerts or competitions you do not get the luxury of playing on the same violin you have been practicing on for many years. Each piano is different and the technique you have used to produce a certain tone on one piano may have to be changed on a piano with a different tone, lighter or heavier key action, the list goes on. Many people think all pianos are the same. This is not true at a professional level if we are comparing difficulties with mastering an instrument. If we could all bring our favourite piano everywhere we performed, it would be a lot easier to perform with precision and not need to adapt to different pianos. 
 
Easier to learn the notes? on string and wind instruments you are dealing with predominantly one line of music. On the piano when it gets very contrapuntal and complex, you are dealing with the interweaving of multiple lines of music. I have played both the violin/viola and the clarinet (to a relatively high level), and for these instruments, I don't need to practice to memorise the music off by heart, controlling for the period and difficulty of the repertoire. Whereas for the piano/organ I struggle to internalise the music without physically coding the information and even then it's quite difficult. Not to mention that the piano requires both close and wide reaching coordination that can go horribly wrong. 
 
Pitch is obviously difficult to get 'precise' but at advanced levels, you don't see violinists 'hitting the wrong notes'. Maybe something might be slightly sharp or flat, but you don't see 'wrong notes' being hit by string instrumentalists. Whereas on the piano it sticks out horribly even if you clip an adjacent note. Similarly, intonation is key for the piano as well.
 
And the tuba, isn't that just apples and oranges? We were talking in the context about Yundi a solo concert pianist. Do you see a proliferation of tuba soloists in this day and age like you do with pianists? 

 
 
First of all old people are sexy. 

 
Other than that I`m not at all convinced the piano lives in some higher echelon of complexity that make soloists more rarefied an individual and more commonly susceptible to demise and such.
Just saying.

 

[uchihaitachi]

   
 
First of all old people are sexy. 

 
Other than that I`m not at all convinced the piano lives in some higher echelon of complexity that make soloists more rarefied an individual and more commonly susceptible to demise and such.
Just saying.

I wouldn't say it exists in some higher echelon of complexity, but mistakes do stick out like a sore thumb, and to stay really 'on top' of the repertoire especially in terms of memory. 

 

[kostaszag]

 

  I don't know why your age has come in on this discussion? Likewise I was born and raised among musicians. I also never said that decline isn't due to multifaceted factors, but I was addressing canadianmaestro's point about keeping top of the pile and I know that pianists even at most conservatoires i've been/visited tend to practice longer hours, and can't 'wing it' during classes but other instrumentalists can often pull that off.
 
In concerts or competitions you do not get the luxury of playing on the same violin you have been practicing on for many years. Each piano is different and the technique you have used to produce a certain tone on one piano may have to be changed on a piano with a different tone, lighter or heavier key action, the list goes on. Many people think all pianos are the same. This is not true at a professional level if we are comparing difficulties with mastering an instrument. If we could all bring our favourite piano everywhere we performed, it would be a lot easier to perform with precision and not need to adapt to different pianos. 
 
Easier to learn the notes? on string and wind instruments you are dealing with predominantly one line of music. On the piano when it gets very contrapuntal and complex, you are dealing with the interweaving of multiple lines of music. I have played both the violin/viola and the clarinet (to a relatively high level), and for these instruments, I don't need to practice to memorise the music off by heart, controlling for the period and difficulty of the repertoire. Whereas for the piano/organ I struggle to internalise the music without physically coding the information and even then it's quite difficult. Not to mention that the piano requires both close and wide reaching coordination that can go horribly wrong. 
 
Pitch is obviously difficult to get 'precise' but at advanced levels, you don't see violinists 'hitting the wrong notes'. Maybe something might be slightly sharp or flat, but you don't see 'wrong notes' being hit by string instrumentalists. Whereas on the piano it sticks out horribly even if you clip an adjacent note. Similarly, intonation is key for the piano as well.
 
And the tuba, isn't that just apples and oranges? We were talking in the context about Yundi a solo concert pianist. Do you see a proliferation of tuba soloists in this day and age like you do with pianists? 

 
 
First of all old people are sexy. 

 
Other than that I`m not at all convinced the piano lives in some higher echelon of complexity that make soloists more rarefied an individual and more commonly susceptible to demise and such.
Just saying.

I remember reading once, a long time ago, in an article on brain research, that piano playing was regarded by neurologists as the most demanding of all mental activities, even more than, say, chess. If this is true then it comes not as a surprise if there are more cases of burn-out among pianists  than among other musicians.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Beethoven: Symphonies 5 & 7/ Kleiber/VPO (DG)--definitely on my top twenty list.

Definitely the 5th is Kleiber's to own. As for the 7th, do Kleiber's version with the Bayerisches Staatsorch from 1982. It's better than his 7th with VPO, imo.
 

 

Interesting story about the only living harpsichordist who's name I can recall... an Iranian, who recently got booed in Köln for not speaking German at a performance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iranian-musician-forced-to-stop-cologne-concert-after-audience-members-jeer-and-shout-speak-german-a6909066.html

A shame he was booed. Nationalistic fervor in over-drive. A bit like boo-ing a visiting hockey team's national anthem.
 

  I remember reading once, a long time ago, in an article on brain research, that piano playing was regarded by neurologists as the most demanding of all mental activities, even more than, say, chess. If this is true then it comes not as a surprise if there are more cases of burn-out among pianists  than among other musicians.

A pity they cannot do functional MRI while a concert pianist is playing a Mozart Concerto like #20 C-minor. The number of brain sub-regions that would "light up" would be staggering, I think.

 

[Claritas]

Interesting story about the only living harpsichordist who's name I can recall... an Iranian, who recently got booed in Köln for not speaking German at a performance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iranian-musician-forced-to-stop-cologne-concert-after-audience-members-jeer-and-shout-speak-german-a6909066.html

He's good. If he speaks German, as he claims, why didn't he just switch to German? They'd have loved him for it.

But I can sympathize with the crowd even if I disagree. I'd be irked if I were at a concert here and a German soloist addressed us in German without a translator. That's just clueless. And--unlike Cologne--thank God my city hasn't just been the victim of a mass sex crime.

 

[Quinto]

He's good. If he speaks German, as he claims, why didn't he just switch to German? They'd have loved him for it.

But I can sympathize with the crowd even if I disagree. I'd be irked if I were at a concert here and a German soloist addressed us in German without a translator. That's just clueless. And--unlike Cologne--thank God my city hasn't just been the victim of a mass sex crime.

Everybody speaks English in the Netherland..Germany should switch to bloody subtitles on TV and movies, so they can join the rest of the world in English as second language..
 
Personally I would never sympathize with anyone who uses a mass sex crime or nationalistic sentiments as an excuse to be an ass to anyone who, I'm pretty sure, had nothing to do with any of it..it's bloody ignorant to say the least..

 

[gerelmx1986]

 

He's good. If he speaks German, as he claims, why didn't he just switch to German? They'd have loved him for it.

But I can sympathize with the crowd even if I disagree. I'd be irked if I were at a concert here and a German soloist addressed us in German without a translator. That's just clueless. And--unlike Cologne--thank God my city hasn't just been the victim of a mass sex crime.

Everybody speaks English in the Netherland..Germany should switch to bloody subtitles on TV and movies, so they can join the rest of the world in English as second language..
 
Personally I would never sympathize with anyone who uses a mass sex crime or nationalistic sentiments as an excuse to be an ass to anyone who, I'm pretty sure, had nothing to do with any of it..it's bloody ignorant to say the least..

Not all people speak english in mexico.... soo? specially the poor

 

[kostaszag]

 

He's good. If he speaks German, as he claims, why didn't he just switch to German? They'd have loved him for it.

But I can sympathize with the crowd even if I disagree. I'd be irked if I were at a concert here and a German soloist addressed us in German without a translator. That's just clueless. And--unlike Cologne--thank God my city hasn't just been the victim of a mass sex crime.

Everybody speaks English in the Netherland..Germany should switch to bloody subtitles on TV and movies, so they can join the rest of the world in English as second language..
 
Personally I would never sympathize with anyone who uses a mass sex crime or nationalistic sentiments as an excuse to be an ass to anyone who, I'm pretty sure, had nothing to do with any of it..it's bloody ignorant to say the least..

It is all not that simple. Let me start by stating that I am Greek, fluent (I think) in both English and German, with some knowledge of French. I loath the german (and french, and italian, and russian) habit of dubbing and watch tv and movies only on original language. Still, I think it is the right of every person to be addressed in his native language while living in his country. I find the cultural chauvinism of english-speaking peoples aggravating. I work in a call center in Germany and have to deal every day with americans, british, irish, hindus and pakistanis who have been living in Germany for years and speak little or no German at all. 
 
That being said, the behavior of a part of the public on that notorious concert was unacceptable, a foreigner who is on a short visit may choose to speak in a language he/she is comfortable with, and I would personally take any time good English over poor German, even in Germany. Some decades back I was at a concert of the Academy of Ancient Music under the baton of Christopher Hogwood, in the Kongresshalle of the city of Saarbrücken, in Germany of course. Hogwood made a small speech before the encore, explaining what it was ( a little, funny march by Haydn). He spoke in English and nobody complained. 

 

[perhapss]

  I remember reading once, a long time ago, in an article on brain research, that piano playing was regarded by neurologists as the most demanding of all mental activities, even more than, say, chess. If this is true then it comes not as a surprise if there are more cases of burn-out among pianists  than among other musicians.

I`m quite eager to be proven wrong.
Proof please?

 

[kostaszag]

 

  I remember reading once, a long time ago, in an article on brain research, that piano playing was regarded by neurologists as the most demanding of all mental activities, even more than, say, chess. If this is true then it comes not as a surprise if there are more cases of burn-out among pianists  than among other musicians.

I`m quite eager to be proven wrong.
Proof please?

Sorry to disappoint you, I am not a neuro-surgeon, my background is Humanities. I just mentioned an article I read some time ago. You may believe it or not, or bring proof of your own to support your  point. We are not in a university here, so nobody gets bad notes for being unable to prove something. We are having a discussion on music and musicians, or so I gather.