[Raketen]

I heard of another person who does this, and then I mentioned it to the owner of a high-end audio shop, locally. He went on about anyone who does this doesn't know enough about IEMs and how they interact with "the air around them" and that the ANC cans would mess with the IEMs ability to produce/reproduce high-quality sound, blah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah...

Would love to hear anyone who knows more than me help provide understanding on this topic, because it seems like a win-win setup on the surface.

Maybe there is some sense not wanting to put a tiny, sensitive BA driver right next to a large DD's magnetic field which could possibly cause the armatures to bend if they get close enough? Could use conventional passive earmuffs if that's concerning.

But in terms of sound quality IMO we're only getting a fraction of the IEM's SQ anytime there is external noise anyway, and the effect on the IEM from adding an external cavity would really depend on the IEM (and pretty easy to test yourself), so I don't see why not if it works for the person doing it.

 

[mattiav]

I heard of another person who does this, and then I mentioned it to the owner of a high-end audio shop, locally. He went on about anyone who does this doesn't know enough about IEMs and how they interact with "the air around them" and that the ANC cans would mess with the IEMs ability to produce/reproduce high-quality sound, blah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah...

I would not be surprised if this were the case for dynamic driver/vented IEMs, hence my comment re: Atlas. But my Andromeda’s and Shures are fully sealed BA IEMs that block off my ear canal entirely, and don’t interact with the outside at all.

I did think about getting a pair of over the ear noise canceling headphones at one point, but the weight and space were a key factor in deciding against them. As well as needing batteries. The FiiO BTR3 that I use will last me gate-to-gate on at 14hour flight and I can recharge it with a USB-C cable, and off a Anker battery if needed. [/SIZE]

The Sony XM3’s last about 30 hours on a single charge, and charge using USB-C. Just sayin’...

 

[castleofargh]

Ha fun post! I wonder if I could do that somehow with my 4.4 mm balanced termination?

Pls advise?

My answer is almost certainly going to be that I don't know, but what exactly would you want to do?

I heard of another person who does this, and then I mentioned it to the owner of a high-end audio shop, locally. He went on about anyone who does this doesn't know enough about IEMs and how they interact with "the air around them" and that the ANC cans would mess with the IEMs ability to produce/reproduce high-quality sound, blah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah...

Would love to hear anyone who knows more than me help provide understanding on this topic, because it seems like a win-win setup on the surface.

As suggested, it would seem like that person was talking about some acoustic concerns, so at best that would impact IEMs with a rear vent. I'd argue that even with a vented IEM(which is a poor choice for isolation in the first place), the ANC headphone might objectively improve things. Maybe the big extra acoustic chamber created by the headphone could slightly change the signature of the IEM, but I doubt that it would go beyond something hardly measurable. On the other hand, any sound wave cancelled or attenuated by the ANC is a soundwave that will not reach the IEM or the ear(or will but it will be a smaller amplitude). And that is obviously good overall.

The cool thing with stacking, is that the ANC might be able to attenuate some low frequencies better than an IEM(that would have to be confirmed in practice as not all NC headphones and IEMs are doing an equally good job). At higher frequencies, I doubt that the impact would go beyond some 3dB of noise reduction on average compared to the IEM alone. But that's just me making an educated guess, so don't take my word for it.
The bad, is that we now need to find both an IEM and a headphone that will be comfy enough for a few hours of flight.

 

[U2Joshua]

Depending on your budget, here are some IEMs with good isolation in no particular order to consider which are also relatively easy to fit :

. . .
Sony IER M7

@PaganDL, do you have any intel on the M7 vs. M9? I open this question up to anyone, really.

I called Crutchfield, today, and the rep really tried steering me to the M9 - said he's listened to both and believes I'd be happier with them. Have checked out a few reviews comparing the two, and most reviewers are giving the M9 the leg up. They say that with the additional high-frequency driver (M7 has 4 drivers, M9 has 5), the treble is not "rolled off" and you get a much more balanced representation across the instrumental spectrum including percussion, etc.

Structurally, the M7 is in a plastic housing while the M9 is in a magnesium housing, purportedly providing further reduced "resonance", etc.

From there, if I were to drop $1K on a pair of stock IEMs, would I be doing myself a disservice for not looking at some CIEMs in the same price range?

Is there any logic to suggest that there are "better" components (Sony proprietary) in a $1K stock pair of IEMS than what you would get in a pair of $1K CIEMs - custom form factor obviously comprising a great deal of the cost, leaving less room for as high of quality components?

 

[NovaFlyer]

I would not be surprised if this were the case for dynamic driver/vented IEMs, hence my comment re: Atlas. But my Andromeda’s and Shures are fully sealed BA IEMs that block off my ear canal entirely, and don’t interact with the outside at all.

Thanks for the info on the XM3's. Will take a look at them in the near future.

 

[megabigeye]

I also have used ANC headphones over IEMs and like to believe that I am the progenitor of this idea!
Like castleofargh said, so long as the IEM is sealed (like a balanced-armature IEM), it shouldn't make any difference to how it sounds. Even a vented dynamic IEM is probably okay, since they're not (usually) acoustically open and they move so little air through the vent that they won't require a huge space to operate in. Though Raketen brings up an interesting point about larger magnets potentially interfering with (damaging?) smaller magnets. That might be something to look into (though, anecdotally, I've never noticed any interference or damage).
As for fit, the IEM should sit about flush with the outside of your ear, like a stage monitor, and the ANC headphone should be around-ear, not on, and they should not touch your ear, or only touch lightly.. I use Westone UM Pro 50 and my wife's Anker Soundcore Space. The bonus is that you don't need the best, most extensive ANC headphones for this route.
The drawbacks are that it's a pain if you need to take them out/off to hear something and that you potentially look like a moron with multiple wires hanging from your ears. But who's judging?

 

[surfgeorge]

@PaganDL, do you have any intel on the M7 vs. M9? I open this question up to anyone, really.

I called Crutchfield, today, and the rep really tried steering me to the M9 - said he's listened to both and believes I'd be happier with them. Have checked out a few reviews comparing the two, and most reviewers are giving the M9 the leg up. They say that with the additional high-frequency driver (M7 has 4 drivers, M9 has 5), the treble is not "rolled off" and you get a much more balanced representation across the instrumental spectrum including percussion, etc.

It's been a while but in April 2019 I gave those 2 a good listen at e-earphones in Japan.
I was tempted by the M9, since I loved the sound, more fun and powerful than the Andromeda, the fit was very comfortable with good seal, and the price was so good that I thought I could buy it and if I don't like it sell it again in Europe without (much) loss.

I also tried the M7 hoping it would be close to the M9 at a lower price.
IMO it indeed lacks treble extension and I was surprised when I saw the frequency response, since it looks quite similar to the M9 but sounded quite a bit less lively.
These were my notes:

Sony IER-M7:
4BA model, very nice but just not up to the IER-M9 level:

IER-M9:
Great sounding 5BA IEM (added super-tweeter). IMO better than Andromeda, more lively, more punchy. Closer to Solaris, but could not say how close. Great fit!
Very, very nice to hear that refined, detailed and sparkly BA sound with a little heft in the bass

I found the discussion about the M9 in Toranku's thread very useful: https://www.head-fi.org/search/61640759/?q=M9&t=post&o=date&c[thread]=895832
Those people know much more about IEMs than me

 

[Raketen]

I open this question up to anyone, really.

I called Crutchfield, today, and the rep really tried steering me to the M9 - said he's listened to both and believes I'd be happier with them. Have checked out a few reviews comparing the two, and most reviewers are giving the M9 the leg up. They say that with the additional high-frequency driver (M7 has 4 drivers, M9 has 5), the treble is not "rolled off" and you get a much more balanced representation across the instrumental spectrum including percussion, etc.

Structurally, the M7 is in a plastic housing while the M9 is in a magnesium housing, purportedly providing further reduced "resonance", etc.

From there, if I were to drop $1K on a pair of stock IEMs, would I be doing myself a disservice for not looking at some CIEMs in the same price range?

Is there any logic to suggest that there are "better" components (Sony proprietary) in a $1K stock pair of IEMS than what you would get in a pair of $1K CIEMs - custom form factor obviously comprising a great deal of the cost, leaving less room for as high of quality components?

IMO not worth it to get too hung up on the proprietary tech... whatever sonic effects, from customer's perspective we can only evaluate the end result so it's function is purely marketing material. It's true that Sony produce their own BA, but nearly every mid to large manufacturer can advertise 'customized proprietary drivers from Knowles' etc... and there are certainly well regarded IEMs made with off-the shelf-parts.

(for the record, am an M9 owner and think it's a good IEM... though haven't tried them on an airplane. I think there were some commenters in the m7/m9 related threads that liked the M7 more- at half the price it's probably well worth investigating)

CIEM are a whole other wormhole, and aren't for everyone (as I learned the hard way myself... since secondhand value tends to be very low, IMO good idea to first get a cheap CIEM to figure out if it's even something that works for you- plus if it does work out and you want an high end model from the same maker, theoretically they will already have your molds & fit figured out).

 

[PaganDL]

@PaganDL, do you have any intel on the M7 vs. M9? I open this question up to anyone, really.

I called Crutchfield, today, and the rep really tried steering me to the M9 - said he's listened to both and believes I'd be happier with them. Have checked out a few reviews comparing the two, and most reviewers are giving the M9 the leg up. They say that with the additional high-frequency driver (M7 has 4 drivers, M9 has 5), the treble is not "rolled off" and you get a much more balanced representation across the instrumental spectrum including percussion, etc.

Structurally, the M7 is in a plastic housing while the M9 is in a magnesium housing, purportedly providing further reduced "resonance", etc.

From there, if I were to drop $1K on a pair of stock IEMs, would I be doing myself a disservice for not looking at some CIEMs in the same price range?

Is there any logic to suggest that there are "better" components (Sony proprietary) in a $1K stock pair of IEMS than what you would get in a pair of $1K CIEMs - custom form factor obviously comprising a great deal of the cost, leaving less room for as high of quality components?

@U2Joshua,

I have the M7 but have also demo the M9 extensively so I can easily speak about both though the answer should be clear which I go for.

Honestly, subjectively & personally, without auditioning yourself, it is tricky to have a good impression & I would say the salesperson was just trying to sell you the pricer unit as it would look good on his sales quota more than anything else...

Personally, for me the M9 lacked a lot though I'm sure others will disagree...
But you have to ask yourself, is the M9 favoured due to Perception & Expectation Bias...

But good case in point, when I auditioned the M7 & M9, I also auditioned the Z1R, with not only my own DAP, Cowon Plenue D but also Sony DAPs & AK DAPs...long story short, for me, only M7 & Z1R stood out with any distinction...though not by much...
By the way, this was over 3 days so I knew each sound signature very well by that point...
Also, gear synergy is important & personally, I find Sony DAPs lacking severely especially for their own IEMs but this is just my humble opinion.
So aside from the bling factor & high price, Z1R was & still is definitely off the table despite it having a good sound, actually remarkably similar to M7, in fact, though personally, I wouldn't call it flagship but once again, my humble opinion...

M9, even with a good source, perhaps the Highs were a little more rolled off' than it should be though I can't comment much on this as I am not a fan of sharp Highs due to sensitive hearing among other things...
Bass response was more flabby & poorly extended, especially on Sony DAPs.
Mid Range was a little too polite as well & tended to hide behind both bass & highs more often than not...
So for me, this is definitely not an all rounder with M7 clearly taking that lead.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too hung up about material acoustics as I have heard more plastic & resin IEMs which sound way, way better than their metal counterparts...at ANY PRICE POINT...
I also understand material science & dabble in it, I can tell you while generally metal is often better structurally, for acoustics, it all depends...but usually sucks...
Not to mention what technology &/or config, Driver or otherwise goes into said IEM matters a whole lot as well as the Sound Tuning...

There are many 'Flagship' head gear which does jack all for me sonically, where more often than not, more affordable options do more, the same goes for gear.
Unfortunately, just as a quick aside, though it is still on topic, especially in this hobby, due to Perception & Expectation Bias, there is a deep skew towards price being an indicator of quality...
Sure, the thing may be aesthetically pleasing but does it sound like it should be priced without bias?
It can be hard to say...

On the brief topic of CIEMs, while I have little experience in compared to Universals, I have tried quite a few Universal versions of Customs or IEMs which have a custom option, above $1K as with my previous statement above, price doesn't determine sound quality.
But if you are interested in the a custom option, CustomArt has the best sounding IEMs in both sound & price.
In audio, quality components certainly help but largely mean jack all as there are quality components which don't cost ridculous money...just because...Neutrik, Rean, Canare are such which come to mind...

The final thing I will leave you with is just try to demo as much as possible at various price points you're interested in with a good quality source with well recorded music then decide for yourself as at the end of the day, the only opinion which matters is YOURS, no one else's...

Hope this all makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[U2Joshua]

With that, @PaganDL, I have order a pair of M7's! Should have them in a couple of days, and will be taking a trip next week to try them out in the air.

I'll report back my impressions.

 

[PaganDL]

With that, @PaganDL, I have order a pair of M7's! Should have them in a couple of days, and will be taking a trip next week to try them out in the air.

I'll report back my impressions.

Hi @U2Joshua,

Hope you enjoy them as much I do my pair...look forward to what you think after you've had some time with them.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Zachik]

I do not travel nearly as much as I used to... but used to travel quite a bit.
Years ago, I used to have a over-the-ear Bose, which was just fine for mostly movie watching while flying.
Then, I was shocked to discover the Bose QC20 is pretty much as effective, or close to it, while reducing travel bulk substantially!
Couple years later - I gave the Custom Empire Ears Bravado a shot, and they are great!!!
So, now I have 2 options when traveling, the Bravado CIEMs and the Bose QC20.

Similarities:
- Very small and light to carry
- Provide very good isolation from plane noise

Bose advantages:
- Better plane engine noise isolation
- Easier / faster insertion and removal
- Better for when traveling with someone (for above reason)

CIEM advantages:
- Better isolation for non-engine noise (people talk, babies cry, etc.)
- No batteries that need to remember charging

As @NovaFlyer mention (post #45 in this thread) - having a dynamic driver adds a tiny vent hole, which I consider a big plus!
Reason: I have another BA-only CIEMs that do not have such vent hole, and when plane changed altitude - it cause serious pressure build inside my ear. I had to remove CIEMs to relief! With the Bravado (thanks to the vent hole) - no such issue at all

Just my 2 cents...

 

[U2Joshua]

Sony M7’s arrived. I’ve used them a couple of times. I like how they sound; unfortunately, not how they feel.

After 30 mins my ears are in pain.

I’ve always known that I have unusually shaped/sized ear canals. Anecdotally, I had a hearing aid specialist look at my ears yesterday and he agreed.

I will be returning the M7’s and going back to my XM3’s, for now.

I am interested in CIEM’s but the prices are prohibitive for the time being.

Having looked at a few vendors, online, I am intrigued by 64 Audio. I called and spoke to a rep and was impressed - seems they have some differentiating technology over the competition. Anyone have any experience? Advices or cautions with them?

 

[Zachik]

I am interested in CIEM’s but the prices are prohibitive for the time being.

What is your budget? You might be surprised by entry price for ciem

 

[U2Joshua]

It would be nice to do something for ~$500, but I wouldn’t want to do it if it meant sacrificing audio quality.

I have the impression I should be more in the ~$1200 - $2000 range based on my initial perusing.