[FeralP]

So I'm looking to upgrade from my Koss DJ Pro 100s, and it looks like the HD 600s are the perfect next step. I'm going to be using them for music production, as well as general listening, so I'm looking for as flat a frequency response and as 'true' a sound as possible.
 
I have a couple of questions before I make my purchase, though - and this community sure seems to know a lot about headphones!
 
Firstly, are these the best choice? These will hopefully be the last headphones I buy for a few years, so I'm really looking for the best quality possible for not-stupid money - less than £500, really - but, ofc, less is always preferable (I really don't mind buying second-hand, either). I'm not going to need/want to upgrade in another year's time, am I?
 
Secondly, what would be the best amp for them? Preferably, something that works well with the DJ Pros as well. I'd rather spend less than £100 on it, though - unless you can convince me it's really worth spending more. That said, I know next to nothing about headphone amps, so any information is really appreciated! I've heard on these forums that the Schiit Asgard is a good match for HD 600s, but a little out of my ideal price range. The FiiO E7 always seems to come recommended as well, or the Pro-Ject Head Box Mk 2 I saw on a Sound-On-Sound article are supposed to be good for these phones - any second opinions?
 
Finally, I hear getting the Cardas replacement cable is a good idea, but I've also seen some disagreement. Is it worth getting a replacement cable, and if so, is the Cardas so much better than the rest? Should I get the cable before or after the amp (ie. does one depend on the other for sound quality, or does one make more difference than the other)?
 
Thanks in advance - I'm a bit of a headphones noob, but this really does look like a great community
 
- Chris

 

[hodgjy]

Don't waste your money on cables. If you want a sturdier cable for the HD600s, get the HD650 replacement cable from Sennheiser. It's about $25 and worth it. Not in sound, but sturdier and has a 1/4" plug without an adapter.

The HD600s are my favorite. They are good at everything without any glaring weaknesses.

I suggest the Schiit Asgard. It drives my HD600s and my Koss Pro DJ100s very well. No complaints.

 

[FeralP]

Haha, well it's good to hear I don't need to spend money on cables!

I'll have a look at the Asgard, see if I can find a reasonably priced second hand version somewhere, thanks
 
I've been doing a bit more reading, and how important would getting a DAC be? If it's not included in the amp, that is.

 

[hodgjy]

Very important.

I've been doing a bit more reading, and how important would getting a DAC be? If it's not included in the amp, that is.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

Don't waste your money on cables. If you want a sturdier cable for the HD600s, get the HD650 replacement cable from Sennheiser. It's about $25 and worth it. Not in sound, but sturdier and has a 1/4" plug without an adapter.
The HD600s are my favorite. They are good at everything without any glaring weaknesses.
I suggest the Schiit Asgard. It drives my HD600s and my Koss Pro DJ100s very well. No complaints.

 
I can't stand the HD650 cable on the HD600. Sounds incredibly boring to me. Love it's durability though.
 
Asgard does indeed pair well with the HD600. Some days I liked the brighter Valhalla though.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Don't waste your money on cables. If you want a sturdier cable for the HD600s, get the HD650 replacement cable from Sennheiser. It's about $25 and worth it. Not in sound, but sturdier and has a 1/4" plug without an adapter.

 
Agreed.
 
Why replace a perfectly good cable with another cable? The notion that it will improve audio quality is false.
 
Length, termination, build quality, etc. are all valid reasons. I'd prefer the '650 cable to be about half its length (but it isn't.)

 

[tomb]

I hate to admit it, but a Cardas cable on a Sennheiser HD600 makes a huge difference.  I agree with the other poster about the 650 cable - it's nicer quality than the 580/600 cable, but has next to zero effect on sound quality.  The Cardas makes the difference between "veiled" and "detailed" on a Sennheiser and yes, I've owned the combination for many years.  I won't get into the plentiful arguments about cables in principle, just know that I'm a long-standing DIY-er and would rather build another amp or DAC rather than string and braid a cable anyday, anytime.  I never make posts about any cables making a difference with any headphone, save one instance - when someone mentions Cardas and Senn HD580/600's.

 
If you don't DIY an amp (there are many to select from), then the recommendations mentioned so far seem reasonable.  If I were you, I'd save up until you can get something like what's been mentioned or an equivalent.  You are not going to get what you want with a portable amp.  Senns will take as much amp as you can throw at them and continue to improve on the sound.  However, you need a good voltage swing to really make a difference - something like + or - 12V or more.  That's tough (impossible) to do with portable amps.  Will a good portable amp make a difference?  Compared to no amp, yeah - probably, but it's not going to get you the best bang for the buck.  Portables are portable for a reason - they can use batteries and not lose a charge in only 1-2 hours of playing.  So, they've made design decisions to meet those goals ... and those goals are not in the direction that the Senns need.  Read Boomana's thread in the sticky section - from the beginning, particularly Item #2 in her first post:
http://www.head-fi.org/wiki/a-hopefully-helpful-headphone-buying-guide-for-newbies-by-boomana
 
Finally, consider your audio source - it can make a difference.

 

[tdockweiler]

After using the DJ100, you'll probably be bored to death by the HD-600

It puts me to sleep. And not because it's supposed to be neutral.
I don't find them flat since they have more mid/upper bass, less treble and worse low bass extension.
They're still close to neutral I guess.
 
Instead you should look into a used HD-580 for $150. To me it sounds slightly better than the HD-600 and much cheaper!
 
The Asgard is nice for the HD-600, but I HATED it for all my AKG headphones. I don't remember how the DJ100 was with it.
 
I do know that the Fiio E9 is quite impressive with the DJ100 (large jack only!) and perfectly fine with the HD-600.
 
My favorite amp for both is the Headroom Micro. It's pretty much dead neutral to my ears, but a bit more than the Asgard, but worth it.
 
I don't think the HD-600 would be that great for studio use, so why not get the HD-598 instead?

This requires much less amping and sounds good with even a Total Airhead or E5/E11.
 
If you're REALLY interested in cables, you can do the DIY method and save yourself a ton of money. I like my modded HD-600 with the Double Helix wire.
Belden 1192A might seem similar since I imagine they're both low capacitance.
 
I'm a huge fan of this cheap Cardas cable I have ($35 on sale!) so I have to try an HD-600 Cardas cable sometime.
 
Don't forget you could also look into the Q701. I prefer it to the HD-600/580.
 
The HD-600 isn't really any flatter than my Q701 IMO. HD-600 has extra mid bass and my Q701 has some slightly forward upper mids and neutral treble. Oh darn.

 

[FeralP]

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
 
I'm now thinking it's much better to spend the money on a good amp and DAC than replace the cables (to start with, at least).
 
@tomb: I'll bear the cable in mind for later Thanks for that link, btw, it was useful!
 
@tdockweiler: I heard that the HD600s were flatter than the HD580s, but perhaps I heard wrong... I'll look into both those headphones you mentioned
 
One more question, though: what kind of DAC should I be looking to get? I've heard a little bit about them, but I'm still really in the dark.

 

[hodgjy]

If your computer is a music server, you'll want asynchronous USB in DAC. Most new DACs have this, but not all.

One more question, though: what kind of DAC should I be looking to get? I've heard a little bit about them, but I'm still really in the dark.

 

[FatmanSize48]

​

Chris,

What is your source? If you will be using your computer, get the HRT Music Streamer II. You can pick one up for around $100 USD and it comes with asynchronous USB. It also sounds great. Now for an amp: DIY it buddy. Or buy a prebuilt DIY. I would recommend the Bottlehead Crack. The bare kit itself is $280, and a fully built one sells (on their website) for $420. If you buy on Head-Fi, you should be able to get one for under $400. Also, if you haven't bought your headphones already, I advise you to also buy them off of Head-Fi. Mint condition HD600s can be bought for as little as $250. So buying a fully assembled amp, a DAC, and HD600s should run you no more than $750 altogether, worst case. And you would still be under your budget just for your DAC and amp. Now how's that.

-Kenneth

 

[FeralP]

Are they still worth the purchase if I were to get no amp for a while, or perhaps a relatively inexpensive (ie. FiiO e7) amp/DAC combo? I just don't want to spend so much cash on the headphone+amp+DACs... Might it be better to invest in a decent amp/DAC for the DJ Pros, then upgrade headphones later?

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Are they still worth the purchase if I were to get no amp for a while, or perhaps a relatively inexpensive (ie. FiiO e7) amp/DAC combo? [...] Might it be better to invest in a decent amp/DAC for the DJ Pros, then upgrade headphones later?

 
If these were my choices,
 

• buy a good DAC and amplifier for my current headphones; or
• buy a good pair of headphones (IMO) for my current source;

 
I think, unless my source was really inferior, I'd choose number 2 every time. I'm certain I'd continue to skip overpriced aftermarket cables.

 

[hodgjy]

The Koss Pro DJ100s are actually very good headphones that definitely improve with amplification. Get this DAC and amp combo and never look back.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_772D1/Audioengine-D1.html?tp=59371

 

[FeralP]

Okay, guys thank you all so much for the responses! You've really helped my decide what to do for the best, and saved me some money, I think

I'm gonna buy an amp/DAC for now, to drive the Pro DJs, then later on get the Sennheisers.
 
Thanks again