[Goonerman]

Confession here, I had to google the word "shill" earlier in the thread, I didn't know what it meant

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonerman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Confession here, I had to google the word "shill" earlier in the thread, I didn't know what it meant

Nope, nor did I - until I was accused of being one !

 

[Herandu]

Wow! I go away on a company training course for a few days and you guys decide to continue the fun without me. How shameful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now look at what this thread made me do -- I asked Stanley for a review unit.

What makes you think that you won't be accused of being a friend, or having alternative motives as well? How do you know he speaks Dutch???? I think you better explain yourself.
I think there have been enough owners of this DAC on head-fi who have backed it. Since you are saying that you are only borrowing it, I assume you are not actually buying it? So how subjective is that? And why is Stanley so willing to send a review unit to you? Would that apply to anyone amongst us if we asked for the same?

 

[digitalmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif What makes you think that you won't be accused of being a friend, or having alternative motives as well? How do you know he speaks Dutch???? I think you better explain yourself. I think there have been enough owners of this DAC on head-fi who have backed it. Since you are saying that you are only borrowing it, I assume you are not actually buying it? So how subjective is that? And why is Stanley so willing to send a review unit to you? Would that apply to anyone amongst us if we asked for the same?

I better explain myself? I don't think I have to explain myself at all. I had hoped that I'm known enough around here that people would trust what I'm saying. If you don't than that's your call, what explaination do you want me to give?

I got interested in this dac, enough to be so interested that I wanted to know how good it actually is. I'm not sure if I want to buy it. Stanley is confident enough that he'll lend one out for a review so that there'll be a good review, free advertising for him.
How subjective am I? I'm not. If something is good I'll say so, if something is bad I'll say so. This is also what I told Stanley.

Yes, I'll only be borrowing it for now. Long enough to write a review on it. I won't be able to have it untill Christmas, so you shouldn't expect a review anytime soon.

Would it apply for anyone? I don't know, you should've mailed him.

How do I know that he speaks dutch? I shot a bunch of emails back and forth with him today in Dutch. My first email was in english and then he replied in Dutch, since I had placed my location in the first email.

If you still don't trust me, please check my previous posts. I'm mostly a very critical guy. Don't accuse me out of thin air, please. I don't know Stanley from anything other than the conversation we had through email today. If I was a shill/friend I'd allready have one and be posting how great it is. I'm not and it will take a couple weeks before I can post anything about the sound.

Rik

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow! I go away on a company training course for a few days and you guys decide to continue the fun without me. How shameful.

Hmmmm ... do you really think it is "fun" to accuse others of unethical practices? Methinks you should look at your own ethics.

 

[j24]

you're guys have been pretty entertaining with this thread. Maybe Herandu believes in conspiracy theory and that the whole europeen community is up there trying to convince him to buy the DAC of the decade.

 

[Hershon2000]

Maybe the Beresfordadvocates here are sincere, maybe they're not, at this point in time, I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as I'm an American who has been around the block. If the dude with 1000 plus posts, receives it & gives it as glowing a review as the "menwhowouldbeshills", then I will be tempted to keep a much more open positive mind on this & possibly buy in the future, as he has alot more credibility with me.

What the "menwhowouldbe shills" don't seem to understand is their approach in praising or hyping this product was totally wrong to draw most of the US people in. Basically, as I see it, we're expected to take at face value & believe the incredible claims of a bunch of for the most part, new board members, who claim an inexpensive DAC, that no one else seems to have heard of, is the greatest thing since sliced bread & it out performs some well known praised $1,000 DAC's. Well sorry, that's not how we were taught in school.

It's like if someone was introduced to you & he told you he had found the cure for cancer & was signed to a multimillion baseball contract. Chances are you wouldn't take that at face value.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe the Beresfordadvocates here are sincere, maybe they're not, at this point in time, I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as I'm an American who has been around the block. If the dude with 1000 plus posts, receives it & gives it as glowing a review as the "menwhowouldbeshills", then I will be tempted to keep a much more open positive mind on this & possibly buy in the future, as he has alot more credibility with me. What the "menwhowouldbe shills" don't seem to understand is their approach in praising or hyping this product was totally wrong to draw most of the US people in. Basically, as I see it, we're expected to take at face value & believe the incredible claims of a bunch of for the most part, new board members, who claim an inexpensive DAC, that no one else seems to have heard of, is the greatest thing since sliced bread & it out performs some well known praised $1,000 DAC's. Well sorry, that's not how we were taught in school. It's like if someone was introduced to you & he told you he had found the cure for cancer & was signed to a multimillion baseball contract. Chances are you wouldn't take that at face value.

Right. I don't think it's just about being American, though; I think it's about being business savvy and wary. There's plenty of dishonesty in high end audio, and you just have to learn to carefully examine things that look suspicious. I'll go on record now saying I think my original assessment about jandl may very well be incorrect, and it's perfectly possible (if not probable at this point) that he was simply posting here and elsewhere because he's genuinely excited about what he's decided is a cheap, good product. However, I don't feel like I was unreasonable at all in my original conclusion, based on the information I was given; better safe than sorry. Also it's still a bit suspect of Beresford to claim his version of the DAC is better, and then send the TCC unit to one of his customers without telling him so.

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll go on record now saying I think my original assessment about jandl may very well be incorrect, and it's perfectly possible (if not probable at this point) that he was simply posting here and elsewhere because he's genuinely excited about what he's decided is a cheap, good product. However, I don't feel like I was unreasonable at all in my original conclusion,

Thanks for that. You are right - I am 100% honest & genuine.

You're also right that I went over the top in my efforts to communicate my enthusiasm for the Beresford product. In hindsight, I was naive to be so effusive and persistent. I don't retract one word of what I said though, in terms of truthfulness & honesty I said it like I found it. But I can certainly understand and sympathise with your suspicions.

I look forward to Digitalmind's review in the New Year. Not that it will change my mind one way or another, I am quite happy to trust my own ears, but it will be interesting to have another experienced listener's take on this DAC.

 

[arielext]

we had the same with the tc7500 thread, the starter was the same guy as who sold them on ebay (or something like that).

I for one have a tc7500 and quite happy with it, bought it for the inputs and outputs and the dac section isn't bad. Sure there are better dac's out there but when I compare the tc7500 to the other dac's I use (aria and ice1724) they all sound about the same to me. It could be me but changing a single tube in the darkvoice has more effect on the sound than changing between the tc7500 and the ice1724.

Oh and since DigitalMind is a Dutchman I'm happy to have him over testing out the system(s) for himself.

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

I too am waiting for the review. If it is anything like as good as claimed then I will purchase one. Maybe the revised unit. since I am prepared to wait a little. I'd like to say thanks to fellow Head Fiers for the interest shown since my original post.

In fact I am getting quite excited over the whole situation.

By the way, could anyone tell me why Willy Wu was banned, without breaking the rules of the forum. In the past I found his reviews/comments illuminating, and it was partly due to his influence that I bought UE10-Pro's.

Thanks everyone,

John Reeves

PS What does anyone think of the new Yusef CD since I like Cat Stevens and I'm tempted to get his new CD. Somehow I keep missing the tracks played on the radio.

 

[bruce108]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandl100 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK - I've had another email from Beresford, which I tack on below. He clearly has not been following (or even aware of) this thread and seems a little bemused by it. He didn't intend for the TC-7510 to be a "hi-end" bit of kit (although it sure sounds it to me!) and is in fact currently in R&D for a better / more expensive (but not by much ) unit. The claims he makes for component layout certainly ring true for me as Musical Fidelity have been saying this for years, also - and they do the Value For Money trick too (IMO). [from Beresford's email to Jerry] . . . I have a TCC version you can borrow and compare if the guys on head-fi think I am talking BS and that the two boards are in fact the same. They are not, and you only have to listen to the two to hear the difference. Any idea what I shall call my high end DAC? Stanley ______________ End Quote. I think it's clear that there ARE 2 versions of this DAC, but they are being marketed separately and distinctly - he's got his own name on the better one - fair enough? Personally, at first blush, I think so. The eBay ad for the TCC unit seems to be in error - it clearly states that the TCC unit is the same as the Beresford one being marketed elsewhere. Beresford says that, in important ways, it is not the same at all. So, sorry Bruce, but the Beresford-branded one seems to be the better researched and produced product - and is the one I've been raving about. Why not contact Beresford and see if he'd do a swap, or send one for comparison?

Thanks Jerry: I agree completely. I copied my earlier posting to Stanley (as advised to this group) and his response was all it ought to be.

First he sorted out the what's what: there are two versions.

Second - because he was short of cases - my Beresford version came in a TEC case: Stanley had asked me if that was OK, and I said yes. I didn't know at the time that there were two products, and that's why my own doubts arose.

Third: he offered to (a) take back the unit for a full refund (b) exchange it for a TEC version and refund the difference (c) exchange it for Mark III when that is released.

Is that customer service or what? Is it the behaviour of a scammer????

Finally - the two most important points I have to make: the way Stanley writes, both the style and the content, convince me that he is entirely sincere. How do I know? Thirty years of reading prose as a professional have finetuned my crap detector.

I know the DAC sounds as good as the one in my MF CDP because I am also a former professional singer, something of a musician and have a pair of trained ears. I make these points reluctantly, but since credibility is in question here, perhaps I need to bolster mine.

I have suggested to Stanley that his error from a business pov is to get the customer confused. He tells me he will make sure that his versions appear in Beresford cases. Someone earlier in this discussion wondered if the guy was a better engineer than a marketer. That feels about right.

Trust is difficult to establish and fragile; it is also very readily undermined. (See Shakespeare's Othello). I posted about the two-version issue because it obviously needed to be resolved. Once doubts are out in the world, they must be examined. Haven't we now done that?

Cheers

 

[Goonerman]

Ok I think I can settle this. I have just noticed John Reeves location and he
lives just a few miles from me. John would be welcome to come and listen to the DAC in my system or alternatively I would be willing to take the DAC to John's for him to try. As John is a long standing member on this forum, he could then at least post back his impression of the DAC and also confirm to our american friends that we're in fact "menwhoarenotshills"

 

[jandl100]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce108 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Second - because he was short of cases - my Beresford version came in a TEC case:

Hi Bruce,

A liitle confusion here (this thread seems to abound with it!) - so the unit you have is the BERESFORD DAC in a TEC case? I'd got the impression from your first posting that you got a plain vanilla TEC DAC. Small point, but worth clarifying.

Jerry

 

[bruce108]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandl100 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Bruce, A liitle confusion here (this thread seems to abound with it!) - so the unit you have is the BERESFORD DAC in a TEC case? I'd got the impression from your first posting that you got a plain vanilla TEC DAC. Small point, but worth clarifying. Jerry

Yes, Jerry. Sorry if that post misled: I corrected it as soon as I discovered the two-versions problem.

I've suggested to Stanley B that next time he's out of cases he should ask the customer to wait a bit, rather than muddy the waters. IMO he still has some work to do on marketing and perception, but that wouldn't be unusual in a guy who's obviously first and foremost an engineer. (See Dilbert . . . )

The DAC continues to improve. I'll post impressions again in a week or so.

Cheers