[Herandu]

Some things are difficult to prove of course, but I have my suspicion that Stanley might well have "slipped" his MKI off to other shores under the TCC brand when he switched to the MKII. Now that he is talking about a MKIII in development, I won't be surprised if he is shifting the remaining stock of MKII boards via the other brand name.

I have sent Stanley an email last night anyhow, and he has agreed to meet me after work. We both live in London, and it is only an hour drive if I take a short cut via the motorway. Gives me chance to find out what else is new, and what I should be saving up for

. I'll let you guys know later what I have found out and can talk about.

 

[john_ops]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have sent Stanley an email last night anyhow, and he has agreed to meet me after work. We both live in London, and it is only an hour drive if I take a short cut via the motorway. Gives me chance to find out what else is new, and what I should be saving up for . I'll let you guys know later what I have found out and can talk about.

This is great - all the aspects of true intrigue... Let us know what you find out. As I mentioned above, I really like Stanley and what he is trying to do. I'm likely to wait for the Mk III, and get it just because this is such an entertaining story. Even someday when I get a "real" DAC I'll always enjoy that I've been in on the ground floor of something very amusing.

Herandu- do me a favor and ask Stanley if he actually designs the circuits? or does he just propose mods? If so, do they eventually roll out the changes to the TEC version? Does he agree with the PhonePreAmps ad copy (e.g., "EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE BERESFORD")? What's his background? Has he ever worked on other (better-known) DAC design projects?

Thanks,
J

 

[hortiholic]

I have just emailed phonopreamps.com asking them for their comments on the identity of the "two" TC-7510's, and referring them to this discussion. We'll see what they have to say.

Russell

 

[Herandu]

Guys, just clocking off at 5:30. Should be with Stanley in an hour or so. I got offered to have dinner with him and have a look at a "few things" if I am not in a rush. In a rush? Moi

?

I am off now. Report back later.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, here we go. This is the setup I'm using at the moment: Modified Cambridge 640c - Analog outputs -> Receiver's cd inputs -> Loop out -> Mapletree Ear+ HD -> Grado RS-1 - Optical outputs -> Beresford Receiver's dvd inputs -> Loop out -> Mapletree Ear+ HD -> Grado RS-1 Using optical since the Beresford came with an optical cable. I'll also use coaxial later. I would use the K-1000 but I feel the receiver is an inadaquate amplifier for it and am thus missing out on subtle differences. Also, I'm much more familiar with the RS-1. Using the receiver as a switchbox I can easily switch between the Beresford and my main source. Unfortunatly the volume is slightly higher on my cd player so I'll have to play with that when switching back and forth. Time for some serious listening! EDIT: After switching back and forth in the middle of songs for about 30 minutes I'm having a hard time keeping the two apart. The seems to me that the Beresford is slightly more dry and airy, where the Cambridge is a bit fuller sounding. This is very slightly though and at the moment after such a short time I doubt I could tell the difference if someone else was pressing the buttons. Need more listening time.

Any updates Digitalmind on this DAC with your Mapletree RS combo please....

TIA

 

[hortiholic]

Ed at phonopreamps responded promptly to my questions regarding the TC-7510. Here's a summary of what he said.

First, the Beresford dac and the phonopreamps TEC dac are exactly the same, except for the U.S. plugs on the TEC dac.

Regarding the upgrades: "In November 2006 TCC changed two resistor values and added two 1K resistors to the HP jack circuit (see attached pix provided by TCC); this to improve the IM spec, reduce HP output and eliminate bad noises caused by connecting and disconnecting HPs while on. These changes led Beresford to add the "MkII" to their advertised model number (you'll note TCC did not, and neither did we). The units we have in stock were made without these mods but each receives the changes before being shipped. Note that we do not follow TCC's suggestion in the fix 1.jpg to bridge the SMD resistors as shown; rather we do it right and install new 6.8K value SMD resistors. There were ten or so of these which we sold prior to the design change; however we received and implemented the design change info weeks before Beresford received any of the modified production."

My comment: The MK1 previously sold by Beresford is apparently the pre-update TC-7510.

Ed is unimpressed by the talk of laser-trimmed components. "Has any one noticed that the SMD PCB in this unit is pretty much DIGITAL? Digital circuits do not require this kind of precision; the zeroes and ones care not whether a resistor is 10K or 9.99998K. And precision laser-trimmed components are usually used to eliminate the need for trim pots and tunable inductors. Their effective use requires aerospace-industry grade testing and calibration. I don't believe there are any trim pots or inductors in the TC-7510 in the first place (regardless of who it's purchased from)."

Ed sounded somewhat bemused about the erased part numbers on the chips, especially since TEC lists them on its online specs page. He hasn't received an explanation from TEC for the erasures (and intends to ask).

He has heard that Beresford has requested a new model (presumably the MkIII) which supposedly will market for considerably more than the current model. If this is true, Ed plans not to carry it, as from what he's heard the changes will be primarily cosmetic "and add serious shipping weight". He continues: "No plans we know of include mods which would require changing the PCB layouts. Changing to a DC-coupled design with a bipolar power supply would fix the HP tweet when powered off behavior and also improve specs, but would require completely new PCBs. This seems unlikely, and our earlier suggestion to do just this (back last fall) got a thumbs-down from TCC. We've suggested switching to a proper audio taper HP level pot instead of the current linear taper one; this would vastly improve the control's utility and feel."

Interestingly, according to Ed one TEC product, the TC-760LC preamp, was largely designed by and made for Phonopreamps. From what Ed says Phonopreamps has also been involved in advising the design of the TC-7510. It appears there is considerable communication and cross pollination between TEC and Phonopreamps.

Ed attached several photos which illustrate his comments.

In sum, Ed was very forthcoming, which is in keeping with my and others' dealings with him as a customer (his business is well received on ebay and in other quarters).

BTW, TEC IS the correct name (it WAS TCC). The new name and a rather poorly designed logo have apparently caused confusion.

Russell

 

[Herandu]

Just got back guys. Recorded most of the conversation on my phone, so I have to put it down on paper so that it makes sense. Some forthright questions and forthright answers. Also saw some bits due on the horizon that are worth a further look. Especially if you are on a student type budget, but want a lot more bang for your meager bucks. I was thinking of getting the MKIII when it comes out, but I am not so sure anymore. The one I heard (pre-production sample by the way) sounds like a completely new unit all together. But it's best we wait for a beta tester other than me to check out a final version. I suggested Hershon by the way, since he has mentioned many reservations about the Beresford TC-7510 prior to actually having listened to one. Failing that, who else is up to the job without being biased? I am out of the running since I might be considered too close to the source.

The reason I said I am not so sure about getting the MKIII has nothing to do with that unit. It's that "digital inputs only" pre-amp (no tone or balance controls) prototype that I saw that has changed my mind. I don't really use all the functions on my current amplifier. So one of those digital pre-amp plus a small power amp will be the shortest route to my speakers. That should on paper produce some amazing results. Just can't wait to get one as a beta tester

. The 60 Watts( you read it correctly!) external power supply upgrade for the TC-7510 etc. did come as a surprise though. That's about 3 times more juice than the standard PSU. Dunno if it will make much difference if any, but I'll take a chance and fork out the expected £35 price when it does come out. Only thing I was given to take home is a sample of a COAX interconnect Stanley calls the Pink Link. It's dark pink to light red in colour. The theory behind it and a quick look at the cross section of a cut piece looks solid, but I'll let my ears do the final test.

More tomorrow if I can find time to transcribe my audio notes. Must get off to bed now.

 

[Herandu]

I had a quick read of the last bit of this topic before calling it a day. The comments form Ed are quite interesting. I saw some emails, drawings, prototype boards etc. that predates any of the claims from Ed about last fall. Some go back to 2004. Ed is also shooting himself in the foot with the claims about some of the mods he takes credit for. Especially when Stanley named the actual people on head-fi who helped him out with sorting out those mods! Now they should have no problem in verifying the accuracy of what Stanley says. Wait for my interview notes

.

 

[Herandu]

I had a quick read of the last bit of this topic before calling it a day. The comments form Ed are quite interesting. I saw some emails, drawings, prototype boards etc. that predates any of the claims from Ed about last fall. Some go back to 2004. Ed is also shooting himself in the foot with the claims about some of the mods he takes credit for. Especially when Stanley named the actual people on head-fi who helped him out with sorting out those mods! Now they should have no problem in verifying the accuracy of what Stanley says. Wait for my interview notes

. As for the ICs: Stanley showed me the circuit diagrams of the various trials down to the current PCB. Now how would he have that information, but Ed hasn't? Only someone involved with the design down to component level would be in possession of such detailed information. Hmmmm...

 

[hortiholic]

Please note that Ed didn't claim or suggest that he played any design role in the resistor mods for the TC-7510 (and I didn't report that he did), or any other mods for that matter. It's always possible he DID, but he didn't say so. He DID say that he advised TEC to make some other changes in the 7510, which TEC declined to make (see above). He also said that the units he ships are pre-upgrade units that Phonopreamps mods with the upgrade resistors, as per TEC specifications, except that the Phonopreamps mods exceed the TEC specs, in his opinion. That's the only place he takes personal credit for the upgrade procedures.

In fact it's my impression that if anything he's soft-pedaling his involvement in the development of TEC products.

Russell

Ed is also shooting himself in the foot with the claims about some of the mods he takes credit for.

 

[digitalmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any updates Digitalmind on this DAC with your Mapletree RS combo please.... TIA

Give me about 5 more days orso, I've been listening to the DAC for a couple days now instead of my cd players analog outputs, to get a hang of it, but mainly with the K-1000. The short time I've spent listening to the Mapletree/RS-1 with it sounded mighty fine though. I've found that does have the tendency to be shrill in the highs with the K-1000 but this could very well be my amplifier, so the Mapletree should offer a better idea on that.

I've made a test cd out of 5 tracks that I really know and love so I'll just be listening to that over the weekend, switching back and forth between sources.


This discussion about the differences is really interesting. Good arguments from both sides and even a in person meeting now. Very good thread. How would Phonopreamps know what Stanley does to his Beresford dacs?

 

[Herandu]

Before I officially start at 9.00AM and that new IT guy start logging network traffic during working hours Ijust want to slip in a few words.
Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif This discussion about the differences is really interesting. Good arguments from both sides and even a in person meeting now. Very good thread. How would Phonopreamps know what Stanley does to his Beresford dacs?

Ed doesn't. I also suspect that he is back tracking after having consulted TCC and they put him straight on a couple of things. Stanley did seem very unwilling to criticize Phonopreamps in any way.

 

[john_ops]

I agree - this is an amazing example of an internet user community doing what it does best - rapidly aggregating a lot of points of view and sources of information. Sure there's some chaos around the edges, mistakes, misinterpretations along the way, but it's fascinating. And it's really nice that everyone is pitching in. Thanks all!

Now I really want to hear what the Mk III is slated to improve - is it primarily going to be around the headphone hum issue or will the unbalanced RCA performance improve too?

The shrillness you're mentioning sounds like it might be typical NOS performance, but it might be something else... have you used other NOS DACs to compare to?

The real question I have is how is the performance of the MoodLab Concept vs. the Beresford 7510 Mk II... But that may be a conversation for a different day...

 

[Herandu]

Sorry about the delay in posting my relevant interview questions with Stanley Beresford. I have cut it down as much as I could without leaving out what WE want to know. I must point out that I have met him several times before, so I have left my own curiosity questions and comments out of it in order to avoid any sign of bias tainting the interview. Her goes:

Q: Diving in straight at the deep end, what’s the connection with Phonopreamps?
A: They buy several and developed one product with the factory owned by a friend of mine.
Q: They say on their site that there is no difference between the TCC version of the TC-7510 and yours. What are you saying?
A: Depends on which version they mean. We modified the MKI after several head-fi members made some useful observations and suggestions to me. Some even sent me a reference CD and pinpointed areas for improvements in the sound. I know them as Fabrizio, Jerry, Eugene, Robert etc. In turn I sent them a modified unit to confirm all was well afterwards, or was at least far better. Once we were happy with the modified one, the whole production was standardized. So the later TCC and MKII are indeed the same. But not the MKI, and neither the MKIII.
Q: What about the MKIII? And why will the TCC version not be the same as well?
A: The MKIII has a few more upgrades that were suggested by European head-fi members, such as changing the caps. I looked at a range of high quality caps and settled on the one that seemed the best to me. The TCC version will share all of the critical upgrades, but no doubt they’ll have to keep in mind the size of any possible price increase to their customers. So I am not sure if they’ll follow the same route as me with the expensive caps upgrade. The US also tends to have different sounding equipment than Europe. I haven’t heard or had any technical feedback from the US is terms of audio related issues. It would be silly to force on them the improvements Europeans suggest when it is going to cost more. So a divergence in the MKIII between TCC and Beresford is inevitable.
Q: The Beresford TC-7510 produces a lighter bass and harsher treble compared to other DACs in the midrange to lower high end sector, which is where you claim your unit is aimed at sound wise. The laws of diminishing returns dictate that to solve those problems you’ll need a far more expensive unit that might then not be value for money or have the same show off factor. Is that the 8000 we hear mentioned?
A: Of course not. If it is an issue with the 7510, then it will be looked at and addressed in the 7510, not a far more expensive model.
Q: When is that likely to be, and how much more?
A: You might be in for a shock very soon.
Q: So what is this 8000 about?
A: It’s in fact an idea put in my head by another head-fi member I know as Jerry. He suggested the TC-7510 as a preamp. The 8000 is basically a 7510 with an output volume control and some other features. No balance and tone controls since few of us use them.
Q: Anything else of interest for the future?
A: A bigger (60 Watts) PSU as requested by many. An affordable esoteric digital coaxial interconnect called the Pink Link at this moment.
Q: Monster, Ixos, Van Der Hull etc. are the recommended choices even in the mags. Isn’t it a waste of time for you to try to push an unknown lead?
A: Leads get marked up by as much as 10 times or more. Take away those excessive non-manufacturing costs and you can have an esoteric interconnect at the cost of a midrange lead. The ethos behind its construction is for another day.
Q: Some in the US say that the 7510 is all hype and no substance. The issue with Phonopreamps just enforces that believe in their mind.
A: I have shipped less than 5 units to the US for the whole of last year since they obviously buy the TCC DAC locally and cheaper. I am pleased with the support and comments I have received from my main markets in Europe and Australia, and I am happy to keep it that way. Praise or criticism from others might influence one’s choice, but I care little for the comments of anyone who is expressing opinions prior to having auditioned either or both of the 7510 brand names.
END

 

[Gone4T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Q: Anything else of interest for the future? A: A bigger (60 Watts) PSU as requested by many.

I think it's worth mentioning that I've done a few modifications to my MK 1 including some suggested by Herandu (thanks) on page 1 but the best yet including cost effectivness was a 3.8amp. 12 volts DC power supply.