[MacedonianHero]

I did mention that they were on innerfidelity.com; which is no longer up....those measurements were not very flattering. That said ASR has MAJOR issues with their "guy in a basement" garage gear. I've been around too long to spread disinformation and here is your proof:

But thankfully Stereophile has them up:
https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/ViolectricV281.pdf

For your review. Please feel free to compare against the other amps:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/innerfidelity-headphone-amplifier-measurements

 

[stemiki]

In my view the amplifier has to do its job, that is to amplify a signal and that's it. It must act as an intermediary between the source and the headphones or speakers.
Obviously the moment something in the setup is not right, this will highlight what is wrong.
Thinking of improving a headphone or a source through the amplifier does not seem the most correct solution.
HPA4 will immediately show you the strengths and weaknesses of your system.

 

[MacedonianHero]

In my view the amplifier has to do its job, that is to amplify a signal and that's it. It must act as an intermediary between the source and the headphones or speakers.
Obviously the moment something in the setup is not right, this will highlight what is wrong.
Thinking of improving a headphone or a source through the amplifier does not seem the most correct solution.
HPA4 will immediately show you the strengths and weaknesses of your system.

That is exactly my view as well, which is why I love the HPA4 for its ruthless honesty.

 

[stemiki]

I also think that today it is very difficult to surpass the performance of an amplifier like this, at any price.
Making a solid state with these qualities is not easy.
I have a lot of respect for John Siau and I think he really created a state of the art product.

 

[Fegefeuer]

I did mention that they were on innerfidelity.com; which is no longer up....those measurements were not very flattering. That said ASR has MAJOR issues with their "guy in a basement" garage gear. I've been around too long to spread disinformation and here is your proof:

But thankfully Stereophile has them up:
https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/ViolectricV281.pdf

For your review. Please feel free to compare against the other amps:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/innerfidelity-headphone-amplifier-measurements

I know about ASR's shenanigans very well, even they placed the HPA4 above the V281 which is not surprising to me. The HPA4 does measure well, no doubt.
However I want to know how you interpret these measurements to conclude that the V281 is not even mid-fi. That's a strong statement you make and also very reductionist (kinda ironic as ASR does the same) in regards to amps that might even measure worse, e.g. big boy tube amps etc.

How do you come to that conclusion and how does all this align with your V280 review? And following from that. Why should I not choose other THX amps over the HPA4 given the huge price delta? They also measure in a way almost similar to it and better than a lot of other (tube) amps.

In my view the amplifier has to do its job, that is to amplify a signal and that's it. It must act as an intermediary between the source and the headphones or speakers.
Obviously the moment something in the setup is not right, this will highlight what is wrong.
Thinking of improving a headphone or a source through the amplifier does not seem the most correct solution.
HPA4 will immediately show you the strengths and weaknesses of your system.

Wrong. There is no correct solution here. If I change the tubes in my DAC or amp to counterbalance shortcomings of my headphones, why would that be not a correct solution?

 

[MacedonianHero]

I know about ASR's shenanigans very well, even they placed the HPA4 above the V281 which is not surprising to me. The HPA4 does measure well, no doubt.
However I want to know how you interpret these measurements to conclude that the V281 is not even mid-fi. That's a strong statement you make and also very reductionist (kinda ironic as ASR does the same) in regards to amps that might even measure worse, e.g. big boy tube amps etc.

How do you come to that conclusion and how does all this align with your V280 review? And following from that. Why should I not choose other THX amps over the HPA4 given the huge price delta? They also measure in a way almost similar to it and better than a lot of other (tube) amps.



Wrong. There is no correct solution here. If I change the tubes in my DAC or amp to counterbalance shortcomings of my headphones, why would that be not a correct solution?

So I guess there was no disinformation.

The V280 and V281 are voiced quite differently, which is why I was surprised...and I'm sorry a solid state amp that measures like a tube amplifiers is a big fail in my books. Buy whatever you feel comfortable purchasing is the only advice I can give, but saying that mid-tier gear is just as good is rather silly (especially without a good amount of listening experience on both units with sources and headphones that can keep up with them.

 

[stemiki]

I know about ASR's shenanigans very well, even they placed the HPA4 above the V281 which is not surprising to me. The HPA4 does measure well, no doubt.
However I want to know how you interpret these measurements to conclude that the V281 is not even mid-fi. That's a strong statement you make and also very reductionist (kinda ironic as ASR does the same) in regards to amps that might even measure worse, e.g. big boy tube amps etc.

How do you come to that conclusion and how does all this align with your V280 review? And following from that. Why should I not choose other THX amps over the HPA4 given the huge price delta? They also measure in a way almost similar to it and better than a lot of other (tube) amps.



Wrong. There is no correct solution here. If I change the tubes in my DAC or amp to counterbalance shortcomings of my headphones, why would that be not a correct solution?

We have different visions. My goal is to reproduce the sound message as real as possible, for better or for worse. Why do I have to modify or color the sound? At this point I would have taken an equalizer.

 

[Giru]

I did mention that they were on innerfidelity.com; which is no longer up....those measurements were not very flattering. That said ASR has MAJOR issues with their "guy in a basement" garage gear. I've been around too long to spread disinformation and here is your proof:

But thankfully Stereophile has them up:
https://www.stereophile.com/images/ifmeasure/ViolectricV281.pdf

For your review. Please feel free to compare against the other amps:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/innerfidelity-headphone-amplifier-measurements

I know about ASR's shenanigans very well, even they placed the HPA4 above the V281 which is not surprising to me. The HPA4 does measure well, no doubt.
However I want to know how you interpret these measurements to conclude that the V281 is not even mid-fi. That's a strong statement you make and also very reductionist (kinda ironic as ASR does the same) in regards to amps that might even measure worse, e.g. big boy tube amps etc.

How do you come to that conclusion and how does all this align with your V280 review? And following from that. Why should I not choose other THX amps over the HPA4 given the huge price delta? They also measure in a way almost similar to it and better than a lot of other (tube) amps.

There is no disputing the fact that the HPA4 is nearly impeccable in terms of its bench performance. But when it comes to home use, you're not using the amp to listen to test tones, frequency sweeps or simulated noises. And therein lies the rub. If one aspires to the best bench numbers then there are a few amps that surpass even the HPA4 (as per the graphs on ASR); and at tenths of the price. But I guess numbers aren't everything? Or are they?

Regarding the V281 numbers, I clearly see no reason to call the bench results as midfi; subjective performance not withstanding. Infact I've seen the 281 being used as a reference amp (just like the HPA4) in demonstration booths at canjam and test rigs at various studios. Not that this endorsement matters in the least bit, but still. Again, the amp has been phased out, its useless to keep discussing it to no end. I submit.

Anyway, looking at how cheap and easy to implement the THX designs are, I'm expecting to see more competition for the HPA4 in the future. My eyes will be peeled for the mytek models. I'm sure more brands will be coming up with 888 models this year.

 

[AxelCloris]

We've removed a handful of posts that were getting too personal, going off-topic, and steering the conversation away from the HPA4. Thank you to everyone who helped keep the thread related to Benchmark's amplifier, we appreciate it.

 

[NZtechfreak]

We have different visions. My goal is to reproduce the sound message as real as possible, for better or for worse. Why do I have to modify or color the sound? At this point I would have taken an equalizer.

This is my view also. People talk about colourations adding excitement of emotion, but for me I'll take the clearest window into the music and it is the music that provides those things. Each to their own. I'm quite sure I will love the HPA4 when added to my system.

 

[MacedonianHero]

This is my view also. People talk about colourations adding excitement of emotion, but for I'll take the clearest window into the music and it is the music that provides those things. Each to their own.

The problem with colourations is that they made work for some headphones or sources, but change them and then those "exciting" colourations become rather burdensome.

 

[Arniesb]

The problem with colourations is that they made work for some headphones or sources, but change them and then those "exciting" colourations become rather burdensome.

Thats why i sold V280. It was amazing with Neutral or bright headphones like HD800S and t1.1 but sucked with darker or bassier headphones.
I think Copper or silver cable depending on the headphones with neutral amp is much better solution.

 

[jlbrach]

I have no particular interest in this discussion besides the fact that I owned the 281 and have heard the benchmark....I understand people hear things differently for sure and understand that measurements can be misleading...that said the 281 is a popular amp that has been around for about 7 yrs now and has been universally praised by an array of reviewers....that is a fact

 

[BassicScience]

I have no particular interest in this discussion besides the fact that I owned the 281 and have heard the benchmark....I understand people hear things differently for sure and understand that measurements can be misleading...that said the 281 is a popular amp that has been around for about 7 yrs now and has been universally praised by an array of reviewers....that is a fact

Not to stir the pot, but the Ford Pinto was quite popular at one time, too. Doesn't mean it was a good car. I've never actually heard the 281, so won't comment further, but simply based on its measurements, I wouldn't consider it. For a lot of people measurements are irrelevant, and that's entirely fine. Everyone charts their own course through this great hobby.

 

[jlbrach]

ford pinto was a budget car..the 281 is not a budget amp...it has been discontinued and I do not own it but is one of the netter reviewed amps in recent times....look it up most every review is a rave.....in any event lol..never look at the measurements, do not even know to read or interp[ret them other perhaps the amount of power an amp can output....I remember reading that the abyss HP's did not measure well and now there is this recent controversy with the diana 2...to me the abyss are the best sounding HP's I have heard other than maybe susvara and sr1a and I couldnt care less how they measure