[yyzSB]

Yep. Already using balanced

I should have clarified on preamp usage the source and the pre-outs perform better on the HPA4 with the XLR connections. I was not referring to the XLR input for headphones.

 

[Slim1970]

We had the HE-1000 v2 and the HE-6 with us over the weekend and if the susvara is anything like these, you'll want to be away from the hpa4 as much as possible. Not a sympatico pair at all.
The LCD4 was a different story though. Very good synergy. But still, that was perhaps the only headphone everyone liked with the HPA4 apart from the Verite closed (which was surprising).

The HPA4 is just no no with all four figure sennheisers, Ether C flows, most hifiman flagships and the AKG K812 PRO. That's a recipe for ear bleed.

Thanks for confirming what I have been thinking about a potential HPA-4/Susvara pairing all along. I do think the HPA-4 would be outstanding with my LCD-4z’s, Z1R’s, LCD-XC’s due to their warm sounding nature.

 

[elisiX]

During the testing I did last night (it was at a friends house), we found the following;

You buy the Moon 430 if you have a wide genre of music preference and you enjoy holographic theatre like sound effect and soundstage, beautiful vocals and a natural sound rather than analytical sound.

Otherwise the HPA4 if you enjoy dance / trance and a ‘focal like’ sound signature or dynamic music, and if this type of music constitutes more than 70% of your music collection or time you might go with this.

Headphones used inc. Utopia, HD800S and Empyrean. DAC's were DAC3 and RME ADI-2. I feel like I would use both, but the $ invested in RME, HPA4 and 430HAD is significant, though it'd cover all bases.

I use the Stellia and Hugo 2 for my daily office setup as I mostly listen to dance music during the day at work pumping out emails, etc. At home, I want a more relaxed setup hence my RME/V281 combo.

I could swap out my V281 for the 430HAD and run this as a standalone setup for a full enveloping experience, but I would equally enjoy an RME/HPA4 combination to have the ultimate dynamic setup for home.

Having auditioned just about everything except for Bartok level DAC's like DAVE, I feel that the RME, 430HAD and HPA4 are all anyone would ever need and you could interchange headphone as you like.

I really don't know how much more you could benefit from MScalers, Bartok's and whatever else that commands significantly more expense.

 

[townes]

Fwiw, I don't think the Hpa4 will be an "Upgrade" from the V281, more like another flavour perhaps (the "sidegrade" as they say)

My experience is a different one: I had the V281 for several years and have the Benchmark HPA4 since about two years. To me that's a clear upgrade, be it as a headphone amp or as a preamp.

 

[stemiki]

My experience is a different one: I had the V281 for several years and have the Benchmark HPA4 since about two years. To me that's a clear upgrade, be it as a headphone amp or as a preamp.

In addition to a noticeable qualitative update on the sound, the HPA4 has a volume control that does not bring clicks and pops into the headphones while listening. This was not the case with the V281 in the more expensive version with volume step realy, in addition to the knob that continuously unscrewed.

 

[Giru]

My experience is a different one: I had the V281 for several years and have the Benchmark HPA4 since about two years. To me that's a clear upgrade, be it as a headphone amp or as a preamp.

I'm not defending or berating any product here. I haven't heard the V281 (not for an extended period of time anyway). I have heard the v200 though and liked it.
I'm just a guy who has been saving all year to purchase a totl amplifier.

Anyway, yesterday I sat down in the evening for some quality critical listening with the HPA4. My setup is as follows: Fanlesss PC (Running Daphile live kernel, local playback from ssd, songs ripped from my CDs using the built in cd ripper, no volume normalization)----->DDDAC1794 (4 Stack with Cinemag Output trafos, balanced output)---->HPA4----->Balanced Cable (Q-audio silk terminated in 4 pin XLR)---->LCD4 (for qdc i used the stock cable). Interconnects are audio art except for usb and power cables (usb is 1m shielded generic, power cables are high quality copper from mr.murthy). The whole setup is plugged into a distribution-box (soundfoundations barracuda) that plugs into an isolation transformer (240:240) directly connected to the mains in my room. I've been using this setup for about 2 years now (although I did get the DAC upgraded in that time). I was more into stereo a few years ago and really enjoy my open baffle speakers. Unfortunately the lockdown didn't allow me to use them as the family is at home all the time. Therefore I have had the pleasure of using a number of headphones and headphone amps this year, thanks to covid.

I used my standard 30 track playlist (songs that I've heard on almost all formats and for more than a 100 times). I used the LCD4 and my QDC Anole VX for this purpose. Both these may not exactly be "reference" headphone/iem but the LCD4 seems to have a nice synergy with this amp and the QDC is the most technically proficient IEM I've got. I surmised that this pair will give me a relatively clear idea of the amp's pros and cons. Here are my observations:

1. I have to concede that the background is pitch black. The QDCs are pretty sensitive and yet I never heard a background as black as this on the QDCs.

2. Detail levels are very very decent too. My goto track for details is "High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The opening of the song has a bee buzzing and birds chirping; juxtaposed over a bell ringing in the background. It is a very complex arrangement and has a lot of spatial and tonal cues . If you hear carefully enough the apparent distance between the bell and the bee is very remarkable. The bee's buzz also carries a weight of its own and the bell ring has a very delicate reverb. Normal headphone amps will smear this song left and right but a good ear will always be able to tell. Especially if you've heard this on analogue setups. The HPA4 puts out the spatial cues very well however the weight of the buzz and the reverb from the bell were not as apparent. It was still pretty good.

3. The soundstage and imaging is also good and the "ethereal" theater like headspace is definitely created when using the LCD4 and esp the QDC. For soundstage and imaging I use the 2nd Movement of the Tirol Concerto for Piano and Orchestra from the Concerto Project Vol.4. This is one of my favourite modern orchestral pieces and has a goldmine of subtle details spread out on a huge canvas that can test the limits of any equipment. The HPA4 has all instruments very well placed and I had no qualms with its presentation either. The QDC images this piece so well that I almost welled up. All instruments are seperate and there is no overlap of any kind even during the busier sections of this piece.

4. The tonality is where we run into problems with this amp. My reference track for this is "Supper's Ready" by Genesis. I have heard this track for a gazillion times on vinyl and this is perhaps one of my favourite songs on my collection. The digital file I have is from the original EMI pressed CD from my uncle's library. Its pretty close to the vinyl overall and maintains the tonal richness of the original recording. The song has a plethora of instruments played extremely skilfully by the band; the arrangements are very complex and 3 dimensional with overlapping solos, choruses, flutes, guitars, drums and whatnot. It presents a varied palette of tones from the drums, voices and wind instruments. One might not necessarily consider this a reference track but since I've heard this on casette and vinyl as well, I'm just very well versed with the song.
The problem is that the HPA4 has a very cold presentation on this track. The flutes have no weight in the resonance and the high hats crash pretty hard during the complex passages. The drum beats don't have that bite. Everything sounds overly clinical favouring (rather over-emphasizing) resolution over all else. The flute solo is icy and flat. I've heard better (even from some relatively cheaper amps).

I did change headphones for re listening certain passages of this track and deployed my phobos and hd650 just for reference. Same observations.

Observations were also similar on King Crimson's "Epitaph", The Cranberrie's "Them", Megadeth's "Holy Wars", some of my favourite tracks from Bollywood MP OSTs (Roja, Bombay, Maachis, etc). Granted these songs were originally recorded in all analogue setups and we're using a digital chain here; the HPA4 was more akin to a digital sound than an analogue one.

5. Findings were similar with Indian classical recordings. Instruments just sounded tad lifeless and flat (especially percussion and wind instruments). The amp seems to hold on to details at the expense of emotion. This was also true for modern recordings and live pieces.

This is good when you're mastering stuff coz you want to hear all the raw information but not necessarily enjoy the music.

6. My friend who owns the thx789 was kind enough to loan me his unit for a few days (thanks amit if you're reading this!). A/Bing between the two using the same headphones, the amps are very close overall apart from the differences in detail levels. The 789 also tends to be more sharp and strident at higher volumes.

While the rated power output on the HPA4 is very high at almost all impedances, it does not have the same effortlessness and slam of say the hpa-1, balanced beta22 or the Black Widow (i name these as they are the amps I have access to through my friends and have heard on multiple occasions with same or similar gear). I'd like to use an analogy over here: the HPA4 is like a very refined class D stereo amp; it resolves beautifully and has excellent measurements across the board. But it does not have the musicality and/or the drive of an old Class A stereo amp of the 80's or 90's. Make sense of this whatever way you please.

In conclusion, while the headphone amp section of the device is just fine, I did not find anything remarkable about it for 3k USD. Add the touch screen, preamp capabilities, input switching, THX branding (if you care about it) and top shelf measurement figures and you've got a nice all in one product.

I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer. However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention.

I'm sure the current owners won't be pleased with my opinions but please understand that; that's what it is; an opinion. I like my coffee without sugar but not everyone does. Heck, not everyone likes coffee.

I just thought to share my observations on this open forum so that prospective buyers may get some help deciding before purchasing. These are expensive devices and not everyone can arrange a demo. YMMV with your gear and preference to music, etc.

If you're more into modern music only or have never had/heard a vinyl/analogue rig, this amp will more than satisfy your needs. More so if headphone listening is secondary to your stereo setup and you're looking for more features with your preamp.
Otherwise look elsewhere.

Thanks and good luck!

PS: Sorry for the long post.

 

[stemiki]

Look, there's no problem if you don't like it, on the other hand each of us has their own genres and different ears. There are so many products on the market today.
Good choice!

 

[NickT23]

I'm not defending or berating any product here. I haven't heard the V281 (not for an extended period of time anyway). I have heard the v200 though and liked it.
I'm just a guy who has been saving all year to purchase a totl amplifier.

Anyway, yesterday I sat down in the evening for some quality critical listening with the HPA4. My setup is as follows: Fanlesss PC (Running Daphile live kernel, local playback from ssd, songs ripped from my CDs using the built in cd ripper, no volume normalization)----->DDDAC1794 (4 Stack with Cinemag Output trafos, balanced output)---->HPA4----->Balanced Cable (Q-audio silk terminated in 4 pin XLR)---->LCD4 (for qdc i used the stock cable). Interconnects are audio art except for usb and power cables (usb is 1m shielded generic, power cables are high quality copper from mr.murthy). The whole setup is plugged into a distribution-box (soundfoundations barracuda) that plugs into an isolation transformer (240:240) directly connected to the mains in my room. I've been using this setup for about 2 years now (although I did get the DAC upgraded in that time). I was more into stereo a few years ago and really enjoy my open baffle speakers. Unfortunately the lockdown didn't allow me to use them as the family is at home all the time. Therefore I have had the pleasure of using a number of headphones and headphone amps this year, thanks to covid.

I used my standard 30 track playlist (songs that I've heard on almost all formats and for more than a 100 times). I used the LCD4 and my QDC Anole VX for this purpose. Both these may not exactly be "reference" headphone/iem but the LCD4 seems to have a nice synergy with this amp and the QDC is the most technically proficient IEM I've got. I surmised that this pair will give me a relatively clear idea of the amp's pros and cons. Here are my observations:

1. I have to concede that the background is pitch black. The QDCs are pretty sensitive and yet I never heard a background as black as this on the QDCs.

2. Detail levels are very very decent too. My goto track for details is "High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The opening of the song has a bee buzzing and birds chirping; juxtaposed over a bell ringing in the background. It is a very complex arrangement and has a lot of spatial and tonal cues . If you hear carefully enough the apparent distance between the bell and the bee is very remarkable. The bee's buzz also carries a weight of its own and the bell ring has a very delicate reverb. Normal headphone amps will smear this song left and right but a good ear will always be able to tell. Especially if you've heard this on analogue setups. The HPA4 puts out the spatial cues very well however the weight of the buzz and the reverb from the bell were not as apparent. It was still pretty good.

3. The soundstage and imaging is also good and the "ethereal" theater like headspace is definitely created when using the LCD4 and esp the QDC. For soundstage and imaging I use the 2nd Movement of the Tirol Concerto for Piano and Orchestra from the Concerto Project Vol.4. This is one of my favourite modern orchestral pieces and has a goldmine of subtle details spread out on a huge canvas that can test the limits of any equipment. The HPA4 has all instruments very well placed and I had no qualms with its presentation either. The QDC images this piece so well that I almost welled up. All instruments are seperate and there is no overlap of any kind even during the busier sections of this piece.

4. The tonality is where we run into problems with this amp. My reference track for this is "Supper's Ready" by Genesis. I have heard this track for a gazillion times on vinyl and this is perhaps one of my favourite songs on my collection. The digital file I have is from the original EMI pressed CD from my uncle's library. Its pretty close to the vinyl overall and maintains the tonal richness of the original recording. The song has a plethora of instruments played extremely skilfully by the band; the arrangements are very complex and 3 dimensional with overlapping solos, choruses, flutes, guitars, drums and whatnot. It presents a varied palette of tones from the drums, voices and wind instruments. One might not necessarily consider this a reference track but since I've heard this on casette and vinyl as well, I'm just very well versed with the song.
The problem is that the HPA4 has a very cold presentation on this track. The flutes have no weight in the resonance and the high hats crash pretty hard during the complex passages. The drum beats don't have that bite. Everything sounds overly clinical favouring (rather over-emphasizing) resolution over all else. The flute solo is icy and flat. I've heard better (even from some relatively cheaper amps).

I did change headphones for re listening certain passages of this track and deployed my phobos and hd650 just for reference. Same observations.

Observations were also similar on King Crimson's "Epitaph", The Cranberrie's "Them", Megadeth's "Holy Wars", some of my favourite tracks from Bollywood MP OSTs (Roja, Bombay, Maachis, etc). Granted these songs were originally recorded in all analogue setups and we're using a digital chain here; the HPA4 was more akin to a digital sound than an analogue one.

5. Findings were similar with Indian classical recordings. Instruments just sounded tad lifeless and flat (especially percussion and wind instruments). The amp seems to hold on to details at the expense of emotion. This was also true for modern recordings and live pieces.

This is good when you're mastering stuff coz you want to hear all the raw information but not necessarily enjoy the music.

6. My friend who owns the thx789 was kind enough to loan me his unit for a few days (thanks amit if you're reading this!). A/Bing between the two using the same headphones, the amps are very close overall apart from the differences in detail levels. The 789 also tends to be more sharp and strident at higher volumes.

While the rated power output on the HPA4 is very high at almost all impedances, it does not have the same effortlessness and slam of say the hpa-1, balanced beta22 or the Black Widow (i name these as they are the amps I have access to through my friends and have heard on multiple occasions with same or similar gear). I'd like to use an analogy over here: the HPA4 is like a very refined class D stereo amp; it resolves beautifully and has excellent measurements across the board. But it does not have the musicality and/or the drive of an old Class A stereo amp of the 80's or 90's. Make sense of this whatever way you please.

In conclusion, while the headphone amp section of the device is just fine, I did not find anything remarkable about it for 3k USD. Add the touch screen, preamp capabilities, input switching, THX branding (if you care about it) and top shelf measurement figures and you've got a nice all in one product.

I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer. However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention.

I'm sure the current owners won't be pleased with my opinions but please understand that; that's what it is; an opinion. I like my coffee without sugar but not everyone does. Heck, not everyone likes coffee.

I just thought to share my observations on this open forum so that prospective buyers may get some help deciding before purchasing. These are expensive devices and not everyone can arrange a demo. YMMV with your gear and preference to music, etc.

If you're more into modern music only or have never had/heard a vinyl/analogue rig, this amp will more than satisfy your needs. More so if headphone listening is secondary to your stereo setup and you're looking for more features with your preamp.
Otherwise look elsewhere.

Thanks and good luck!

PS: Sorry for the long post.

Anyway regarding your HPA-4 and dacs testing, have you tried highly compressed files and poor recorded tracks such as Youtube and Spotify ?

 

[townes]

I'm not defending or berating any product here. I haven't heard the V281 (not for an extended period of time anyway). I have heard the v200 though and liked it.
I'm just a guy who has been saving all year to purchase a totl amplifier.

Anyway, yesterday I sat down in the evening for some quality critical listening with the HPA4. My setup is as follows: Fanlesss PC (Running Daphile live kernel, local playback from ssd, songs ripped from my CDs using the built in cd ripper, no volume normalization)----->DDDAC1794 (4 Stack with Cinemag Output trafos, balanced output)---->HPA4----->Balanced Cable (Q-audio silk terminated in 4 pin XLR)---->LCD4 (for qdc i used the stock cable). Interconnects are audio art except for usb and power cables (usb is 1m shielded generic, power cables are high quality copper from mr.murthy). The whole setup is plugged into a distribution-box (soundfoundations barracuda) that plugs into an isolation transformer (240:240) directly connected to the mains in my room. I've been using this setup for about 2 years now (although I did get the DAC upgraded in that time). I was more into stereo a few years ago and really enjoy my open baffle speakers. Unfortunately the lockdown didn't allow me to use them as the family is at home all the time. Therefore I have had the pleasure of using a number of headphones and headphone amps this year, thanks to covid.

I used my standard 30 track playlist (songs that I've heard on almost all formats and for more than a 100 times). I used the LCD4 and my QDC Anole VX for this purpose. Both these may not exactly be "reference" headphone/iem but the LCD4 seems to have a nice synergy with this amp and the QDC is the most technically proficient IEM I've got. I surmised that this pair will give me a relatively clear idea of the amp's pros and cons. Here are my observations:

1. I have to concede that the background is pitch black. The QDCs are pretty sensitive and yet I never heard a background as black as this on the QDCs.

2. Detail levels are very very decent too. My goto track for details is "High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The opening of the song has a bee buzzing and birds chirping; juxtaposed over a bell ringing in the background. It is a very complex arrangement and has a lot of spatial and tonal cues . If you hear carefully enough the apparent distance between the bell and the bee is very remarkable. The bee's buzz also carries a weight of its own and the bell ring has a very delicate reverb. Normal headphone amps will smear this song left and right but a good ear will always be able to tell. Especially if you've heard this on analogue setups. The HPA4 puts out the spatial cues very well however the weight of the buzz and the reverb from the bell were not as apparent. It was still pretty good.

3. The soundstage and imaging is also good and the "ethereal" theater like headspace is definitely created when using the LCD4 and esp the QDC. For soundstage and imaging I use the 2nd Movement of the Tirol Concerto for Piano and Orchestra from the Concerto Project Vol.4. This is one of my favourite modern orchestral pieces and has a goldmine of subtle details spread out on a huge canvas that can test the limits of any equipment. The HPA4 has all instruments very well placed and I had no qualms with its presentation either. The QDC images this piece so well that I almost welled up. All instruments are seperate and there is no overlap of any kind even during the busier sections of this piece.

4. The tonality is where we run into problems with this amp. My reference track for this is "Supper's Ready" by Genesis. I have heard this track for a gazillion times on vinyl and this is perhaps one of my favourite songs on my collection. The digital file I have is from the original EMI pressed CD from my uncle's library. Its pretty close to the vinyl overall and maintains the tonal richness of the original recording. The song has a plethora of instruments played extremely skilfully by the band; the arrangements are very complex and 3 dimensional with overlapping solos, choruses, flutes, guitars, drums and whatnot. It presents a varied palette of tones from the drums, voices and wind instruments. One might not necessarily consider this a reference track but since I've heard this on casette and vinyl as well, I'm just very well versed with the song.
The problem is that the HPA4 has a very cold presentation on this track. The flutes have no weight in the resonance and the high hats crash pretty hard during the complex passages. The drum beats don't have that bite. Everything sounds overly clinical favouring (rather over-emphasizing) resolution over all else. The flute solo is icy and flat. I've heard better (even from some relatively cheaper amps).

I did change headphones for re listening certain passages of this track and deployed my phobos and hd650 just for reference. Same observations.

Observations were also similar on King Crimson's "Epitaph", The Cranberrie's "Them", Megadeth's "Holy Wars", some of my favourite tracks from Bollywood MP OSTs (Roja, Bombay, Maachis, etc). Granted these songs were originally recorded in all analogue setups and we're using a digital chain here; the HPA4 was more akin to a digital sound than an analogue one.

5. Findings were similar with Indian classical recordings. Instruments just sounded tad lifeless and flat (especially percussion and wind instruments). The amp seems to hold on to details at the expense of emotion. This was also true for modern recordings and live pieces.

This is good when you're mastering stuff coz you want to hear all the raw information but not necessarily enjoy the music.

6. My friend who owns the thx789 was kind enough to loan me his unit for a few days (thanks amit if you're reading this!). A/Bing between the two using the same headphones, the amps are very close overall apart from the differences in detail levels. The 789 also tends to be more sharp and strident at higher volumes.

While the rated power output on the HPA4 is very high at almost all impedances, it does not have the same effortlessness and slam of say the hpa-1, balanced beta22 or the Black Widow (i name these as they are the amps I have access to through my friends and have heard on multiple occasions with same or similar gear). I'd like to use an analogy over here: the HPA4 is like a very refined class D stereo amp; it resolves beautifully and has excellent measurements across the board. But it does not have the musicality and/or the drive of an old Class A stereo amp of the 80's or 90's. Make sense of this whatever way you please.

In conclusion, while the headphone amp section of the device is just fine, I did not find anything remarkable about it for 3k USD. Add the touch screen, preamp capabilities, input switching, THX branding (if you care about it) and top shelf measurement figures and you've got a nice all in one product.

I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer. However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention.

I'm sure the current owners won't be pleased with my opinions but please understand that; that's what it is; an opinion. I like my coffee without sugar but not everyone does. Heck, not everyone likes coffee.

I just thought to share my observations on this open forum so that prospective buyers may get some help deciding before purchasing. These are expensive devices and not everyone can arrange a demo. YMMV with your gear and preference to music, etc.

If you're more into modern music only or have never had/heard a vinyl/analogue rig, this amp will more than satisfy your needs. More so if headphone listening is secondary to your stereo setup and you're looking for more features with your preamp.
Otherwise look elsewhere.

Thanks and good luck!

PS: Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for your interesting and excellent post!
Most helpful for me to understand your experience were these two tracks:
Genesis - Supper's Ready and King Crimson - Epitaph (In the Court of the Crimson King is one of my all time favourite albums).
I grew up with this music and bought it on vinyl back in the early seventies.

With regard to Genesis "Foxtrot", yes you are right, this sounds rather flat and thin (using my Desktop rig, which includes the HPA4), it's less aggressive and has more space and depth with the Stax headphones driven by the BHSE amp.
With regard to King Crimson, you should use either the 2009 Stereo Mix (40th anniversary edition) or the 2019 Stereo Mixes (50th anniversary ed.) otherwise it sounds sub-optimal, to say the least.

"I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer."
I agree and that's how I use the HPA4 in my desktop rig, e.g. comparing different versions of the same album, using foobar, replay gain and ABX.

"However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention."
I agree also to this, e.g. Stax SR-009 and Headamp BHSE.

But still, overall I prefer the HPA4 compared the Violectric V281 (which had in addition a rather annoying stepped volume control)

 

[Giru]

Look, there's no problem if you don't like it, on the other hand each of us has their own genres and different ears. There are so many products on the market today.
Good choice!

Absolutely agreed my dear sir!
Its quite sad actually. I had the HPA4 in my crosshairs for so long now (since April), I passed up on so many good deals, didn't even buy the bike i was supposed to buy (was not going out anyway, but yeah), saved up every penny and then finally when I got the amp, I'm not liking it
Anyway, the hunt continues....

 

[Giru]

Anyway regarding your HPA-4 and dacs testing, have you tried highly compressed files and poor recorded tracks such as Youtube and Spotify ?

I don't usually use either when I'm listening to my desktop setup. I'm using a NOS DAC and a frikin' medical grade isolation transformer, so spotify and YouTube don't fit in my snobby facade.

On a serious note, Daphile doesn't play well with spotify (hilariously the spotify plugin is aptly named "spotty"), and YouTube has sorta banned 3rd party audio streaming so again a no go with daphile.

That said, I think the performance should be fine as long as the source tracks are good. Spotify has a 320kbps limit and YouTube always oversamples so "technically" they should be inferior to the real CDs when ripped. I haven't compared though, so tldr: dunno.

 

[Giru]

Thanks for your interesting and excellent post!
Most helpful for me to understand your experience were these two tracks:
Genesis - Supper's Ready and King Crimson - Epitaph (In the Court of the Crimson King is one of my all time favourite albums).
I grew up with this music and bought it on vinyl back in the early seventies.

With regard to Genesis "Foxtrot", yes you are right, this sounds rather flat and thin (using my Desktop rig, which includes the HPA4), it's less aggressive and has more space and depth with the Stax headphones driven by the BHSE amp.
With regard to King Crimson, you should use either the 2009 Stereo Mix (40th anniversary edition) or the 2019 Stereo Mixes (50th anniversary ed.) otherwise it sounds sub-optimal, to say the least.

"I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer."
I agree and that's how I use the HPA4 in my desktop rig, e.g. comparing different versions of the same album, using foobar, replay gain and ABX.

"However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention."
I agree also to this, e.g. Stax SR-009 and Headamp BHSE.

But still, overall I prefer the HPA4 compared the Violectric V281 (which had in addition a rather annoying stepped volume control)

Genesis and King Crimson are two of my fav prog bands and also two of my top fav bands regardless of genres. Music used to be different back then. Where the hell have we reached now???

Yeah the 40th anniversary CD is what I have too. The original vinyl press of this album must cost like a thousand dollars if you can find one in NOS condition. Regardless, one of the best albums from KC and a prog legend.

You have the BHSE and the STAX 009 too? Wow. Droooolllll!!!!

That sort of setup is just different ball game altogether. Pair that with a good TT and I'll happily live in that room till I die

Hmmm, so I shouldn't consider the V281 if I didn't like this? Well that's another one off the list. I wasnt getting a unit to demo anyway, so I guess I'll give it a pass.

I had heard the v200 a few years ago at a meetup. It was pretty nice and warm. Slight treble roll off but very detailed nonetheless. Probably one of the smoothest amp we heard that day.

Right now I'm looking at the GSX-MK2, GSX Mini, Mjolnir Bipolar, A new Beta22 (3 board) from ybm audio and a few others. I also heard the pass hpa-1 in the lockdown again. The problem was that it's just the opposite of the hpa4; overly syrupy and sweet and besides only single ended output.

 

[LCMusicLover]

.
.
.
4. The tonality is where we run into problems with this amp. My reference track for this is "Supper's Ready" by Genesis. I have heard this track for a gazillion times on vinyl and this is perhaps one of my favourite songs on my collection...

From Foxtrot, right? (Not Second’s Out)

I still remember when my brother came home with the twin pack (Nursery Crimes/Foxtrot) which was a crap pressing. And later hearing an import disk and thinking ‘Wait! What?!?’

Good times!

 

[johnzz4]

I'm not defending or berating any product here. I haven't heard the V281 (not for an extended period of time anyway). I have heard the v200 though and liked it.
I'm just a guy who has been saving all year to purchase a totl amplifier.

Anyway, yesterday I sat down in the evening for some quality critical listening with the HPA4. My setup is as follows: Fanlesss PC (Running Daphile live kernel, local playback from ssd, songs ripped from my CDs using the built in cd ripper, no volume normalization)----->DDDAC1794 (4 Stack with Cinemag Output trafos, balanced output)---->HPA4----->Balanced Cable (Q-audio silk terminated in 4 pin XLR)---->LCD4 (for qdc i used the stock cable). Interconnects are audio art except for usb and power cables (usb is 1m shielded generic, power cables are high quality copper from mr.murthy). The whole setup is plugged into a distribution-box (soundfoundations barracuda) that plugs into an isolation transformer (240:240) directly connected to the mains in my room. I've been using this setup for about 2 years now (although I did get the DAC upgraded in that time). I was more into stereo a few years ago and really enjoy my open baffle speakers. Unfortunately the lockdown didn't allow me to use them as the family is at home all the time. Therefore I have had the pleasure of using a number of headphones and headphone amps this year, thanks to covid.

I used my standard 30 track playlist (songs that I've heard on almost all formats and for more than a 100 times). I used the LCD4 and my QDC Anole VX for this purpose. Both these may not exactly be "reference" headphone/iem but the LCD4 seems to have a nice synergy with this amp and the QDC is the most technically proficient IEM I've got. I surmised that this pair will give me a relatively clear idea of the amp's pros and cons. Here are my observations:

1. I have to concede that the background is pitch black. The QDCs are pretty sensitive and yet I never heard a background as black as this on the QDCs.

2. Detail levels are very very decent too. My goto track for details is "High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The opening of the song has a bee buzzing and birds chirping; juxtaposed over a bell ringing in the background. It is a very complex arrangement and has a lot of spatial and tonal cues . If you hear carefully enough the apparent distance between the bell and the bee is very remarkable. The bee's buzz also carries a weight of its own and the bell ring has a very delicate reverb. Normal headphone amps will smear this song left and right but a good ear will always be able to tell. Especially if you've heard this on analogue setups. The HPA4 puts out the spatial cues very well however the weight of the buzz and the reverb from the bell were not as apparent. It was still pretty good.

3. The soundstage and imaging is also good and the "ethereal" theater like headspace is definitely created when using the LCD4 and esp the QDC. For soundstage and imaging I use the 2nd Movement of the Tirol Concerto for Piano and Orchestra from the Concerto Project Vol.4. This is one of my favourite modern orchestral pieces and has a goldmine of subtle details spread out on a huge canvas that can test the limits of any equipment. The HPA4 has all instruments very well placed and I had no qualms with its presentation either. The QDC images this piece so well that I almost welled up. All instruments are seperate and there is no overlap of any kind even during the busier sections of this piece.

4. The tonality is where we run into problems with this amp. My reference track for this is "Supper's Ready" by Genesis. I have heard this track for a gazillion times on vinyl and this is perhaps one of my favourite songs on my collection. The digital file I have is from the original EMI pressed CD from my uncle's library. Its pretty close to the vinyl overall and maintains the tonal richness of the original recording. The song has a plethora of instruments played extremely skilfully by the band; the arrangements are very complex and 3 dimensional with overlapping solos, choruses, flutes, guitars, drums and whatnot. It presents a varied palette of tones from the drums, voices and wind instruments. One might not necessarily consider this a reference track but since I've heard this on casette and vinyl as well, I'm just very well versed with the song.
The problem is that the HPA4 has a very cold presentation on this track. The flutes have no weight in the resonance and the high hats crash pretty hard during the complex passages. The drum beats don't have that bite. Everything sounds overly clinical favouring (rather over-emphasizing) resolution over all else. The flute solo is icy and flat. I've heard better (even from some relatively cheaper amps).

I did change headphones for re listening certain passages of this track and deployed my phobos and hd650 just for reference. Same observations.

Observations were also similar on King Crimson's "Epitaph", The Cranberrie's "Them", Megadeth's "Holy Wars", some of my favourite tracks from Bollywood MP OSTs (Roja, Bombay, Maachis, etc). Granted these songs were originally recorded in all analogue setups and we're using a digital chain here; the HPA4 was more akin to a digital sound than an analogue one.

5. Findings were similar with Indian classical recordings. Instruments just sounded tad lifeless and flat (especially percussion and wind instruments). The amp seems to hold on to details at the expense of emotion. This was also true for modern recordings and live pieces.

This is good when you're mastering stuff coz you want to hear all the raw information but not necessarily enjoy the music.

6. My friend who owns the thx789 was kind enough to loan me his unit for a few days (thanks amit if you're reading this!). A/Bing between the two using the same headphones, the amps are very close overall apart from the differences in detail levels. The 789 also tends to be more sharp and strident at higher volumes.

While the rated power output on the HPA4 is very high at almost all impedances, it does not have the same effortlessness and slam of say the hpa-1, balanced beta22 or the Black Widow (i name these as they are the amps I have access to through my friends and have heard on multiple occasions with same or similar gear). I'd like to use an analogy over here: the HPA4 is like a very refined class D stereo amp; it resolves beautifully and has excellent measurements across the board. But it does not have the musicality and/or the drive of an old Class A stereo amp of the 80's or 90's. Make sense of this whatever way you please.

In conclusion, while the headphone amp section of the device is just fine, I did not find anything remarkable about it for 3k USD. Add the touch screen, preamp capabilities, input switching, THX branding (if you care about it) and top shelf measurement figures and you've got a nice all in one product.

I think if you're using this for critical applications such as mixing/mastering or research or a multipurpose device for your entertainment/home theater system; this device is a no brainer. However if you're looking for totl endgame sort of amplification (for listening to music), there are some more contenders that certainly beg your attention.

I'm sure the current owners won't be pleased with my opinions but please understand that; that's what it is; an opinion. I like my coffee without sugar but not everyone does. Heck, not everyone likes coffee.

I just thought to share my observations on this open forum so that prospective buyers may get some help deciding before purchasing. These are expensive devices and not everyone can arrange a demo. YMMV with your gear and preference to music, etc.

If you're more into modern music only or have never had/heard a vinyl/analogue rig, this amp will more than satisfy your needs. More so if headphone listening is secondary to your stereo setup and you're looking for more features with your preamp.
Otherwise look elsewhere.

Thanks and good luck!

PS: Sorry for the long post.

You may enjoy Wells Audio based on your critique of the HPA4. I felt similarly about it.

 

[Giru]

You may enjoy Wells Audio based on your critique of the HPA4. I felt similarly about it.

Great Scott!! You're a mind reader!
I have been eyeing the Milo too. Although the headtrip is what I'd like to buy but the cost is too inhibitory at this point. The Milo seems very well built and implemented (slightly polarizing design). The price is right too but when you add the shipping and import duties (which in India can go upto 75%), the prospect becomes slightly less lucrative.