Jun 6, 2007 at 6:12 PM Post #646 of 3,058
Only mildly interesting IMO. The system is too large a variable. Even the headphones are not very good. I've used these same headphones extensively and my own reference speaker system is much more live-sounding and extended with better detail and imaging etc...

What would be interesting is the THD+N measurements and phase and group delay measurement, particularly with a transient signal, like an impulse or square-wave, not a steady-state sine-wave.

Steve N.
 
Jun 6, 2007 at 7:06 PM Post #647 of 3,058
I disagree with audioengr. Metrics that are not perceptually weighted are of limited utility. Blind listening tests are the answer, but if conducted properly.

The most sensitive to distortion information the brain gets from music is spatial information, not tonal. Thus one should use a good binaural recording with very high quality headphones, since non-binaural recording and playback geometry guarantees that spatial information is ruined and the soundfield cannot be recreated properly at the ears.

A couple of years ago I was playing around with opamps, and I noticed that chaining multiple opamps in series (unity gain) didn't seem to cause an audible effect, until I paid careful attention to imaging (it was a binaural recording)--there was a slight reduction of my ability to localize the sound sources.

Conducting a blind test this way is difficult. One problem is that binaural recordings are made with different HRTFs than the listener's and even small variations affect auditory localization--a testament to the incredible sensitivity to distortion of spatial information. An alternative is to use a convolver plugin in the player application and HRTF data from the database; there are sets from many subjects there so one can usually find a set among those that works well for them.

Unfortunately, I'd have to say most headphones are immediately disqualified when one looks at the terrible response curves. Electrostatics like Stax Omega 2 are low distortion but in bad need of equalization. The ultimate driver for such testing would be the Plasmasonic headphones; nothing I've seen in the speaker or headphone world comes close to these curves:
Headphone_frequency_response.jpg
 
Jun 6, 2007 at 8:03 PM Post #648 of 3,058
I will be repeating this test with different sources and D-to-A devices soon. I will be using the same A-to-D to maintain a single variable. In other words, everything will stay exactly the same except another D-to-A will be used instead of the DAC1.

I'll let you know how it sounds.

By the way, if anyone is in the neighborhood, we'd love to have you stop by and participate. You don't even have to call ahead, just stop by M-F, 9-5 EST. We can even use your favorite reference material and headphones (and/or headphone amp and/or D-to-A).

Thanks,
Elias
 
Jun 6, 2007 at 8:04 PM Post #649 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by audioengr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Only mildly interesting IMO. The system is too large a variable. Even the headphones are not very good. I've used these same headphones extensively and my own reference speaker system is much more live-sounding and extended with better detail and imaging etc...

What would be interesting is the THD+N measurements and phase and group delay measurement, particularly with a transient signal, like an impulse or square-wave, not a steady-state sine-wave.

Steve N.



Steve,

No problem. We're planning to conduct these tests very soon. We'll post the results as soon as they are available.

Thanks,
Elias
 
Jun 6, 2007 at 8:05 PM Post #650 of 3,058
Slightly off-topic, how does the best AD technology compare to the best DA? Which side needs catching up? Or are both technologies at the same level?
 
Jun 6, 2007 at 8:10 PM Post #651 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No problem. We're planning to conduct these tests very soon. We'll post the results as soon as they are available.


Since you have an ADC, it would be trivial for you to perform this measurement:
http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/...%20testing.pdf
No doubt H. would share his MATLAB code. I know I've suggested this before, and I still think it is a very good test.
 
Jun 7, 2007 at 2:04 AM Post #652 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I will be repeating this test with different sources and D-to-A devices soon. I will be using the same A-to-D to maintain a single variable. In other words, everything will stay exactly the same except another D-to-A will be used instead of the DAC1.


elias

it may be interesting to compare originals to the resulting files with audio diffmaker

http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm

what do you think?

respectfully
gd
 
Jun 7, 2007 at 4:18 AM Post #653 of 3,058
I've read some of your technical support documents at the Benchmark website referencing jitter after hundreds of feet of coax carrying a digital signal. I have a question along those lines regarding USB cable. I believe the limit to USB cable length is 15 meters. Is the DAC1 USB as immune to jitter on such long runs of USB cable in the same way that it is immune to jitter over long runs of coax cable?

thanks in advance.
 
Jun 7, 2007 at 4:27 AM Post #654 of 3,058
There is an issue that error rates go up with very long USB cables. This is separate from the DAC's jitter immunity, it's potential data corruption and loss depending on the specific system configuration.
 
Jun 7, 2007 at 6:24 PM Post #655 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by clar2391 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've read some of your technical support documents at the Benchmark website referencing jitter after hundreds of feet of coax carrying a digital signal. I have a question along those lines regarding USB cable. I believe the limit to USB cable length is 15 meters. Is the DAC1 USB as immune to jitter on such long runs of USB cable in the same way that it is immune to jitter over long runs of coax cable?

thanks in advance.



Clar,

The limit to USB cable is 5 meters. We have not done testing on this; it is information from Wikipedia.

As Crowbar mentioned, long USB cables won't suffer from jitter, they'll be more prone to signal drop-outs etc.

Thanks,
Elias
 
Jun 8, 2007 at 6:39 AM Post #656 of 3,058
I have a short question concerning the proper Quicktime setting in iTunes. I do not have the Pro version of Quicktime on my MacBook. The non-Pro version doesn't have available the following sequence, which was provided to help users make sure the sample rate of the source material was properly reflected in Quicktime: QuickTime -> Edit -> Edit Preferences -> QuickTime Preferences -> Audio -> Sound Out -> Rate. Is there any setting we non-Pro users need to deal with in Quicktime?

Thanks -- James
 
Jun 8, 2007 at 6:22 PM Post #658 of 3,058
Quote:

Originally Posted by Telynau /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have a short question concerning the proper Quicktime setting in iTunes. I do not have the Pro version of Quicktime on my MacBook. The non-Pro version doesn't have available the following sequence, which was provided to help users make sure the sample rate of the source material was properly reflected in Quicktime: QuickTime -> Edit -> Edit Preferences -> QuickTime Preferences -> Audio -> Sound Out -> Rate. Is there any setting we non-Pro users need to deal with in Quicktime?

Thanks -- James



James,

Check out this article about setting up iTunes on Mac:

http://extra.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki..._-_Setup_Guide

Thanks,
Elias
 
Jun 10, 2007 at 4:40 AM Post #659 of 3,058
Thanks, Elias. I have a Wavelength Audio Cosecant Version 2.0 USB DAC and on my MacBook, in Audio Midi Setup, once 44.1KHz is selected (that is all the Cosecant will play) the only bit length available is 16. So I guess that simplifies things for me.

Based on your posts in this thread I think I am going to get one of your USB DAC's to compare with the Cosecant. Very different animals, of course. Given the ease of setup of your USB DAC I may even build a dedicated PC-based playback system if I get energetic. I have an old laptop that might make a decent music player if I strip all the unneeded junk off it.

Regards, James
 
Jun 11, 2007 at 3:37 PM Post #660 of 3,058
Yeah, old computers are good for that. Especially if you get an external firewire hard drive. Be careful of USB hard drives though...some old computers struggle when they try streaming data in and out simultaneously, and under the workload, it may break up the audio stream. The only way to know is by trying though. Perhaps you could borrow a friend's USB drive, or just buy one and return it quickly if it doesn't work.

Thanks,
Elias
 

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