[TonyTripleA]

First off these are initial impressions in response to a request to compare the NAD C542 and the Benchmark DAC1. As someone else asked about the Talisman amp I included my thoughts on this and the benchmark headphone out amp. I do hope to do a more complete follow up on the details but will simply report overall sound quality at the moment. Of course I am using a very inaccurate and uncalibrated instrument for these measurements... my ears... yours may well generate other impressions.

Equipment

The Benchmark DAC1 has only about 30 hours of playing music on it. It has certainly changed since first switched on so again consider these impressions "early" ones. The other equipment is well burnt in.

I'm only using two sets of cans for this comparision: my Alessandro MS-pros and the new Sony MDR SA5000. I love them both but bear in mind my conclusion is the Sonys show varying synergies using combinations of the equipment used here. I do believe the MS-pros are less/not effected by varying the setup.

The two amps I used are the Talisman T-3H and the built in Headphone amp of the DAC1. I think highly of the Talisman (I put it well ahead of Perreaux SX-H1, XCans3, and a range of other amps) but the DAC1 amp surprised me. Not at all inferior in its ability to render fine sound... something I was not expecting from reports here. Is this simply because I have not yet had a "top end" amp to use for comparision or is it because the DAC1 amp is actually pretty good? I seek your more experienced comments on this please. But I can say I could settle for the DAC1 headphone amp and not feel cheated.

When using the NAD CDP I decided to stick to a coaxial digital out cable as it gave just perceptible sound quality improvement over the toslink cable. The digital coaxial cable I had made myself using the highest quality components I could get my hands on... total cost A$20 (about US$15).

The Toslink cable that came with my Chaintech AV710 soundcard was used to make comparisions with the computer as source. Initially the thing that threw me was that hooking up the DAC1 to the Chaintech AV710 using Windows Media Player gave very poor results. Bass was boomy, treble was poor. What was wrong? Well, the problem was fixed switching to Foobar 2000 or itunes.

Impressions

The "tonal" sonic signature seems very similar between these two fine sources. Initially, in the first few hours, I would have said the DAC1 was a bit bright but either I have adjusted or it has burnt in a bit because I no longer feel this. Both sources seem to produce a neutral sound. Certainly either would completely satisfy me - a tribute to just how good they both are. Comparitive A/Bing shows any advantage to either source to be small. There is "perhaps" a slightly better/more pronounced upper treble from the DAC1... but I have some contradictory evidence which begs some questions of this conclusion and which have to do with synergy (edit: or another factor related to the variable/calibrated output switch see post below). I'll elaborate...

Origninally I did not find that the SA5000 liked the analogue output of the DAC1 driving the Talisman as much as either the DAC1 headphone out or the NAD CDP analogue out driving the Talisman. Sparkle was not there with the DAC1 driving the Talisman to the Sonys. I disliked the combination and could detect the difference with all types of music. There was no perceptible difference for me with the MS-pros. Could this be because the Sonys are system sensitive? (Edit: switching to the calibrated output removed this lack of sparkle and seems to have fixed the synergy problem with the Sonys. Now switching back to variable output appears the same... could this have just been a dirty contact on this switch which cleaned up with a single first time use?).

Distortion: Taking Norah Jones and playing her dreadfully recorded albums (but great music) through the DAC1 cleared up the overload distortion I normally experience using the NAD CDP to Talisman. The DAC1 really made a difference here... most impressed and one reason the Benchmark would get my overall vote.

Sound Quality Overall: Taking American Beauty soundtrack (HDCD) or my old reference Dire Straits brothers in arms (HDCD) also showed just how good the DAC1 was... but was it better than my old NAD CDP to Talisman combination. Listening to some Dave Brubeck (HDCD) confirmed what I already felt. A/bing suggests any improvement to be small, but upper treble maybe a bit better from the DAC1 with the sonys driven from the headphone out. It will take me some time to really appreciate any differences. Listening to "hard rock" it was not really possible for me to perceive any differences at all.

I do feel the MS-pros shine with the benchmark DAC1 headphone out. The slight improvement in upper treble maybe? Not sure, but I liked them on the DAC1 headphone out. Initially I thought the Sonys were equally good on the NAD to Talisman as they were on the DAC1 headphone out but... this is not a certain thing... maybe the DAC1 has a slight edge. Edit: now I have fixed my perceived synergy problem with the Talisman driven by the DAC1 this setup may just have the edge. More listening required.

Summary

So, you'd like a summary of my "feelings" on these two sources with the different amps and cans. My reference for sound quality will be better clarity, upper treble detail and resolution. The stats are as follows:


NAD C542 -> DAC1 -> Talisman T-3H -> MS-pros = 8
NAD C542 -> DAC1 -> Talisman T-3H -> Sony MDR SA5000 = 9.1 (edited)

NAD C542 -> Talisman T-3H -> MS-pros = 8
NAD C542 -> Talisman T-3H -> Sony MDR SA5000 = 8.75

NAD C542 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> MS-pros = 8
NAD C542 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> Sony MDR SA5000 = 9

Apple lossless -> AV710 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> MS-pros = 5
Apple lossless -> AV710 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> Sony SA5000= 5

Computer CD -> AV710 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> MS-pros = 7
Computer CD -> AV710 -> DAC1 Headphone out -> Sony SA5000= 7

Conclusion

As far as sources are concerned the law of diminishing returns is evident. The DAC1 gets a better result for eliminating distortion on poor sound level recordings, and perhaps a bit better upper treble. So overall, the more expensive solution wins... but not by a long shot.

Can wise: Overall the Sonys get my vote marginally but not consistently. Certainly the Sonys are a bit adverse to the Talisman being driven from the analogue out of the DAC1. The MS-pros are consistently good with any combination... and certainly more "musical" something I have appreciated with these great cans over a wide range of equipment.

I'd be interested in your own experiences. Particularly on the analogue out of the DAC1 driving a headphone amp... I think I solved my original perceived problem of the Talisman failing to drive the Sonys with their regular sparkle from the DAC1 - a simple matter of operating the calibrated/variable switch for the first time.

One thing for sure, coaxial cable beats optical. Another thing is that NAD makes a very good cost effective source and matches well with the Talisman T-3H... this would still be my pick for good cost effective sound!!!

Lossless hard drive generated sound does not compare to CD output sound to my ears on my system. A dissappointment as the Benchmark was bought with the intention of getting audiophile quality sound from my computer hard drive... maybe an impossible dream?

Hope this provides some interesting points for discussion. I'd value your views and advise.

TonyAAA

 

[morphie]

Very surprising results. How did you end up liking the dac's headphone out more than having dac--->headamp--->headphones? The DAC's headphone out is good imho for sure as well, I've used it for a long time while I had the WA3 and until I got the Headroom home amp, but I have to admit that adding the amp to the chain was very successful sound quality wise...

In any case, thanks for your review, it makaes me want to take my system apar and relisten to everything one by one ^_^

 

[TonyTripleA]

Morphie: I'm just as surprised as you. I also expected the dedicated headphone amp to work better in all cases, and with the Alessandros I can say there was certainly no loss of sound quality. It was just the sparkle of the Sonys that went. But those Sony's do sparkle because of their upper treble so maybe the MS-pros don't show it because they simply don't have as sensitive a response at that frequency.

TonyAAA

 

[morphie]

hmmm those sony headphones are starting to get more n more interesting by the minute thats for sure... I'll have to give em a shot n audition them somewhere...

 

[mneuwiueyagaobcf]

Tony, you should try the DAC1 with speakers. The DAC1 excels very well with speakers (much more so than headphones) in my experience and the difference in source quality is more evident.

 

[kunwar]

My view might might be somewhat different here. I have always found the Talisman to give a more refined presentation than the dac1 amp itself. The dac1 is well suited to drive high impedance cans. Case in point would be DT770-600, HD650, K501, K1000. now something like the MSPro definitely sounds way better to me via the talisman, no edges, looking at the graphs put out by talisman, a slightly rolled off topend or treble might contribute to that, but certainly, crappy recordings will sound better with the talisman than the dac1. I have heard some shockers in this regrads ( Eg. Joe Cocker, a few Ministry of Sound ones, as pointed out Norah Jones, normailsed crapped out newer Madonna stuff and some mono classical recordings.)

as for the comparisons of sources, it is just a personal opinion but to me the dac1 was a notch above the 542. i haven't heard the 542 for long periods of time, but certain traits never change. a well played demo unit at one of my regular haunts simply did not do any justice to say The Last Samurai or Pianist or even the Piano. Everytime the DAC1 put a fire up the speakers bum as the store rep put it. Now is it possible that the dac1 really shines with speakers, hell yes its does. I have heard clear differences with blind switching.

The NAD 542 is a good bargain but the dac1 gives performance which would cost a fair bit more to replace when standalone machines are considered.

to every man their opinion. Thanks for the impressions Tony, much valued and oh so simple to read.

 

[TonyTripleA]

I'll hook up the speakers to the Benchmark today just to try them. I'm not a lover of my speakers though so I don't expect them to be too good, but I will look for differences in sound between the NAD C542 and the DAC1. Easy to do as I can just it a switch to change sources.

And Kunwar, you know I highly value your thoughts on audio quality... heck, I blame you for getting me seriously into this hobby

. That said I'll take your opinion on the DAC1 and seriously listen as the unit continues to burn in. As I said, there is a "slight" preference for it at the moment. And I think you answered my question regarding the Talisman driven by the DAC1... it should sound better than the DAC1 headphone out. I could detect no difference with the MS-pros but I could with the Sonys, they just sounded a bit flatter.... not something you have experienced and its odd I know. Going back and spending an hour re-listening today I noticed one thing which changes my conclusions somewhat... I switched the DAC1 output to "calibrated" output for the first time and re-listened via the Talisman amp. To my surprise, that slight lack of sparkle has now gone when using the Sony's... weird.

Checking and rechecking I've come to the conclusion that something is now different out of the calibrated output setting. It could be I was inaccurately setting the volume between amp swaps... but resetting the DAC1 back to variable seems to have made that "lack of sparkle" dissappear - it could be a bit of grease/dirt/corrosion was in the variable/calibrated switch and this has now been shifted simply by using the switch for the first time? I really am not sure. I'll edit my original post to reflect this "finding".

Thanks for your thoughts,

TonyAAA

 

[TonyTripleA]

Just to follow up with the speakers: Kunwar & mneuwiueyagaobcf - you guys described it exactly how I hear it. Wow... that's all I can say. The DAC1 really shines now. Using the NAD T541 surround amp (set to stereo of course) bass impact is streets ahead of the C542 analogue output. Huge improvement. Treble is way better as well, no lets face it, there is some treble when there was barely any. Not super upper treble like the SA5000 but my mid range Krix speakers sound much better. I do believe the mid range is cleaner as well but this is somewhat subjective.

Kunwar, I have to finally agree... as far as speakers are concerned you are dead right. The NAD C542 does not cut it any more for me... geez you cost me lots of money in the past you know... but this time you saved me getting better speakers so rest assured I owe you one

(again).

Now, back to the headphones to see if I can pick the DAC1 bass improvements. I now know they are there but on headphones, for me, its a tough job picking it.

Previous conclusion modified: DAC1 highly recommended.

TonyAAA

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunwar My view might might be somewhat different here. I have always found the Talisman to give a more refined presentation than the dac1 amp itself. The dac1 is well suited to drive high impedance cans. Case in point would be DT770-600, HD650, K501, K1000.

Can DAC1 provide enough current for K1000?
I have never tried for the lack of suitable cable.

 

[TonyTripleA]

Kunwar is the man to ask... he has both.

TonyAAA

 

[kunwar]

dac1 can provide enough current but whether it is loud enough is entirely upto the listener. Also the K1000 is little bit on the sparkly side with the dac1. The 50Hz bass rolloff does seem to magnify with the dac1. it has a lean, mean presentation with only the bass that is there being present, nothing extra being put on top. If you want clarity, there is oodles of it. Although I still prefer my K1000's through the receiver. If anyone buys the K1000, definitely set aside money for a good amp, which is what I am looking at, let's hope Dr. Jan puts out a killer deal with the audiovalve, the K1000 need bloom, unless of course one does not mind a fleaner bass presentation, However, whatever comes out above 50 Hz, is certainly the best lows I have heard from any setup. the K1000 demands attention but given all of it it certainly rewards the listener.

 

[3lusiv3]

Great thread. Thanks for the review.

 

[kunwar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Can DAC1 provide enough current for K1000? I have never tried for the lack of suitable cable.

I haven't exactly built a custom cable. All I have is the cable ends hooked up to spade clips. I have then built a little connector boxy thing which can hookup to the spades and the other end is a 1/4" connector. DAC1 definitely is not the end, it is kinda like the trailer to what the K1000's can do via a really good amp.

Kunwar

 

[Hello]

Thanks for the review, Tony.

I'm surprised that the digital output from the computer faired so poorly. The 5 and 7 marks reflect your score from listening through foobar / itunes?

Why is this? It seems like the signal is not bit-perfect. But, is this because of faulty drivers, resampling, mixing, etc?

Is there any chance that maybe the noise from your computer is detracting from the listening experience, and this is what causes the discrepancy in enjoyment?

 

[kunwar]

I believe that Tony might need to use ASIO for it to work, Hey Tony send me an email and I will forward you the proper ASIO files with instructions regarding installation of plugin.

Kunwar