[ginetto61]

Hi !
i have been offered for what i think it is a nice price (looking at the average prices on hifishark ) a Benchmark DAC 1, first edition.
I know that it is quite good as a dac ... but as an headphone amp ?
Is it obsolete or still good ?
I would like to use it with HPs ranging from 32 to 250 ohm.
Any advice would be very welcome and appreciated.
Thanks a lot,  gino

 

[poo]

It's technically obsolete in the sense that there are new models from Benchmark, but the DAC1 sounds awesome. If you're getting it for a good price and haven't previously used a DAC/headphone amp of this quality I'd be very surprised if you regret the purchase. Of course, if you can, listen to it first and decide.
 
In terms of the quality of the internal headphone amp, it's excellent. Each to their own and all that, but in my experience it's a difficult box to beat sound quality wise for the price. I had three of them at one time for various setups such is my belief in the product. 

 

[ginetto61]

  It's technically obsolete in the sense that there are new models from Benchmark, but the DAC1 sounds awesome. If you're getting it for a good price and haven't previously used a DAC/headphone amp of this quality I'd be very surprised if you regret the purchase. Of course, if you can, listen to it first and decide.
In terms of the quality of the internal headphone amp, it's excellent. Each to their own and all that, but in my experience it's a difficult box to beat sound quality wise for the price.
I had three of them at one time for various setups such is my belief in the product.

 
Hi !  thanks a lot indeed for the very valuable advice.
 
An important question ... have you also tested it with your HD 800 ?  what the outcome ?
if you tell me that is very good also on those i am done ... i will buy it immediately
amazing headphones the HD800 ... and also amazingly revealing ... exceptional product indeed.
 
The required price is the equivalent of 400 USD ...
actually  i am wondering if there is something really better new or 2nd on the market.
 
I am going to use it mainly with headhones with a pc based source.
I have many to try out from akg k701, 501, 240 (various ohm), Beyerdynamic 990 /250 ohm ... and some cheap ones just out of curiosity
And i am going to connect it through the AES/EBU port to an usb to AES/EBU interface i have.
Thanks again,  gino

 

[goobicii]

I have tested HD 800 with benchmark dac,you wont gonna believe me,but anyway,it was worst sound I have ever heard from headphones in my entire life,the treble was so harsh it was mindblowing that that something in this pricerange can be that bad,across whole range it just sounded like 10 dollar sound but it had terrible boosted treble.

the hd 800 is cold sounding with boosted treble,very precise through,the benchmark sounds very sterile is bad boring way with harsh treble,when you combine the treble problems of hd800 with treble problems of dac1 you get sound that is amazing,its so unpleasant its surreal,its like is this even happening!? I tought this was supposed to sound good,high end quality,but nope

 

[goobicii]

I highly recomend Violectric V200 with HD800,tried it and its super good,the v 200 improve bass and tone down harsh treble of HD800,perfect combo

 

[dorino]

Considering how much the DAC1 is still going for used, I don't think anyone's really going to say it's bad.

 

[goobicii]

Considering how much the DAC1 is still going for used, I don't think anyone's really going to say it's bad.

its not bad with darker headphones,but unmodded HD800.... some combimations offer extreme good synergy,but becose good exist tjere must exist evil also,this combo is on the extreme end of bad

 

[ginetto61]

I have tested HD 800 with benchmark dac,you wont gonna believe me,but anyway,it was worst sound I have ever heard from headphones in my entire life,the treble was so harsh it was mindblowing that that something in this pricerange can be that bad,across whole range it just sounded like 10 dollar sound but it had terrible boosted treble.
the hd 800 is cold sounding with boosted treble,very precise through,the benchmark sounds very sterile is bad boring way with harsh treble,when you combine the treble problems of hd800 with treble problems of dac1 you get sound that is amazing,its so unpleasant its surreal,its like is this even happening!? I tought this was supposed to sound good,high end quality,but nope

 
Hi and thanks a lot for the very valuable advice.
Sadly but now i understand also luckily i do not own a hd800 (just a dream for now).  Clearly the combination did not work.   Op-amp based solid state can indeed sound sterile and harsh.
I do not know if this could work with headphones but with speakers it is possible to play a little with cables.  For instance copper solid core cables are known for taming highs.
One idea could be to make an extension cord with solid core cables and listen the result.
 

some combimations offer extreme good synergy,but becose good exist tjere must exist evil also,this combo is on the extreme end of bad

I have already at hand many HPs to try out.
Unfortunately what i think is the best one, an k701, is not dark at all.
But as i said above two meter of solid cores can do the trick. Hopefully.
I have not seen any lab report of the Bench.  But the headphone out looks solid.  If i am not wrong there is a BUF634 per channel.  A 250mA out current buffer ... a beast of a buffer.
I will try some combinations.  I have bought it actually.
It should arrive very soon.
Thanks again,  gino

 

[ginetto61]

  Considering how much the DAC1 is still going for used, I don't think anyone's really going to say it's bad.

 
Hi and thanks and yes.  I checked on hifishark and i saw people asking even 600 USD for the 1st edition.
It is still a lot of money.  I paid the equivalent of 400 USD, a little above my original budget.
I would have bought an Asgard by Schiit ... by this heat issue scared me.
I think that they tend to exaggerate with bias current especially for HP duties, or better.
If a really high bias current is needed i would expect a big heatsink.
I do not like the solution with the case being a whole heatsink at all.
Like i do not like a transformer mounted on the pcb at all.  All transformers tend to vibrate.
Thanks again,  gino

 

[ginetto61]

I highly recomend Violectric V200 with HD800,tried it and its super good,the v 200 improve bass and tone down harsh treble of HD800,perfect combo

 
Hi sometimes i wonder if an equalizer could be useful also with headphones really.
It will be a little tricky to set properly but once done is done.  I am thinking to a digital one for instance.
It could linearize any headphones around for sure.
A Behringer for instance can be had very cheap and it is said to be quite transparent.
What i mean it is important that the amp has a robust output. Then some irregularities in the response can be levelled with the eq ?
Could that work ?
In this case the eq would become a corner stone in the system.
I have seen some FR measured also on high quality and price HPs.  No one is really flat.  Some speakers are more linear.
Thanks again,  gino

 

[xxxfbsxxx]

   
Hi !  thanks a lot indeed for the very valuable advice.
 
An important question ... have you also tested it with your HD 800 ?  what the outcome ?
if you tell me that is very good also on those i am done ... i will buy it immediately
amazing headphones the HD800 ... and also amazingly revealing ... exceptional product indeed.
 
The required price is the equivalent of 400 USD ...
actually  i am wondering if there is something really better new or 2nd on the market.
 
I am going to use it mainly with headhones with a pc based source.
I have many to try out from akg k701, 501, 240 (various ohm), Beyerdynamic 990 /250 ohm ... and some cheap ones just out of curiosity
And i am going to connect it through the AES/EBU port to an usb to AES/EBU interface i have.
Thanks again,  gino

for $400 you better stay away from the dac1, it sounds very very thin which is not good with akg701 or hd800, i still have a dac1 but rarely use it since cant tolerate more than 30 mins
imo, you should look for audio-gd range, much better sound quality especially superb usb connection

 

[ginetto61]

  for $400 you better stay away from the dac1, it sounds very very thin which is not good with akg701 or hd800,
i still have a dac1 but rarely use it since cant tolerate more than 30 mins
imo, you should look for audio-gd range, much better sound quality especially superb usb connection

 
Hi and thanks again.
Instead as dac only ? how would you rate it ?
Actually i bought it especially to use it as a dac because i like the XLR digital input and a jitter correction system that is said to work nicely.
I have another headphone amp at hand quite unknown around ... it is from a german brand called SAC and it has XLR analog inputs.
I tried it with the k701 and it sounds decent.  Not very fatiguing.
I understand the headphone outs are unusuable with the 701.
I have also a Beyerdynamic 990/250 ohm and akg 240/600 ohm and 242 to try.
I really hope that the Bench would be ok as dac only ... if not it would be extremely difficult to sell again.
It is a discontinued product.
But in general i am realizing that is better to keep things separated ... a standalone dac and an headphone amp ...
This solution strikes me as much more flexible ... a lot more.
I will never do it again.
Thanks a lot again, gino

 

[poo]

I'm honestly shocked by the response of other posters in this thread. I'm clearly in the minority in terms of my opinion of the DAC1 as far as other people here, but I really think that the responses here in no way reflect the general opinion of the product, or more importantly, how it actually performs. In short if you can find a better product for 400USD then buy it. I guess it depends on what you expect from a DAC. To my ears, the DAC1 is resolving and neutral with an acceptable number of inputs and outputs. That's about all I'm after from a DAC - to hear what I'm supposed to from the recording as it was intended. For people to be commenting that the DAC1 sounds "very very thin" or "the extreme end of bad" is so far from my experience with the product that I would be more inclined to assume there was something else wrong in the chain.
 
In answer to your question about whether I've tried my DAC1 with HD800, I sure have. In fact that is exactly my current setup. I've been through a significant number of amps and tried other DACs also. None of these other products have improved the quality of what I hear from the DAC1, other than a couple that I have tried that are well beyond my price range and a couple of DIY units that I'm not going to build (or pay to have built). I actually have a couple of amps that I purchased to use with the DAC1 that I am unable to resell. I don't use them because I don't hear any improvement, so they sit around in boxes.
 
I'm in no way trying to suggest that the DAC1 is some perfect/amazing product that can't be beat, it's not. My current setup of DAC1 to HD800 is lacking, there's a harshness bordering on sibilance that I would like to tame but to be honest it's a subtle thing for me, and I think that I'll experience that kind of dissatisfaction with any setup. I just don't believe that there is a magical alignment of products whose synergy is so incredible that I won't find an issue at all. The truth is that when I listen to my setup, I'm so often amazed by how good it sounds that the 1% of issue I hear doesn't matter. There are times that I don't listen to music for months. When I get to use my gear again after that time, I get a bit surprised by how fortunate I am to be able to hear such great quality sound.
 
I'd like to get a DAC2 some day or at least have a chance to hear one and compare. I'm also sure that there's an amp out there that will improve what I'm hearing a little and I'd like to find it, but for now, I'm pretty happy with what I get to listen to.
 
Anyway I'm curious to know what you end up with/decide. Your last post almost makes it sound like you bought the DAC1 but after the barrage of negativity I'd be surprised

 

[ginetto61]

Hi and thanks a lot again for your very valuable advice
I have a huge respect of hd800 .... what a HP indeed !
I know that is very revealing and a little maybe on the cold side .. but anyway ...
 
To cut short i have bought the DAC1 and it is here and i have been listening to it in the weekend.
Just one word before i give my opinion.
I have a problem.
I am using a win 7 pc as only source and after a while i have discovered that the conversion usb to spdif is not that easy to perform very well.
I am working on it and i got some nice results, but this is OT.
 
Benchmark as a dac only
 
when it is fed with a quality digital signal is very good, at least for me.
I have been using the XLR outs with a SAC headphone amp with XLR ins ( a very decent amp).
Clean and powerful but not sterile harsh or hard at all.
I like it a lot as a dac and i will keep it especially for this.
It is also nicely compact and handy to transport.
 
Benchmark as a dac+ headphone amp
 
i have some HPs here
i think that with some "darker sounding" headphone is better
for instance with the k701 is still clean but it seems, and stress seems, giving little body to the sound
I could be wrong but it is not the best amp for the 701
Instead with beyer dt990 pro much better ...
 
I think that something could have been done to give more body to the HP out
i have a very little experience with opamp circuit but i have noticed that more capacitance close to the opamps gives more of this body
When there is a peak of music the opamp needs a big energy reservoir very close to it from which to suck this energy
if not it tends to starve let's say
 
Another point
I have noticed that some kind of cables, in particular made out of solid core copper, tend to smooth out some harshness
I am thinking on this ...
Many HPs tend to sound a little sterile ... clean of course but thin and a little hard
I have a very crazy idea.  To build a let's say 1 meter of extension cable with copper solid core to put between the HP out and the HP cord.
I believe that cables have an impact on sound and that effects sum up.
this is quite crazy i understand ... i have to try
Even just 3 wires of magnet wire twisted together could do the trick ?
 
OFF TOPIC -  Usb to sdif conversion
 
This conversion can make or break the overall sound really.
In the past i read a lot about transport vs. dac debate and i have understood the importance of feeding the dac with a very good quality digital signal
Just decen dacs can have a very satisfying sound when fed rightly.
To cut the ramblings i have many cheap usb to spdif converters at hand.
Unfortunately i cannot allow what a i think it is the best usb to spdif converter in the world ... the wonderful Berkeley Audio converter
It is a small device but extremely well designed and built.  A wonderful piece indeed !
So i am using what other friends in this forum are using ... the much cheaper Gustard U12
It is a very nice unit for the cost ... even amazing.
But with some very important design flaws.  I say this because i tried.
1)    it has not enough filtering of the mains RF noise. This is extremely bad for digital.   I am sure a different transformer (an EI type,  like the Berkely uses,  instead of toroidal) and a simple mains filter would give a better filtering for sure
2)    it does not provide electrica isolation from the pc.  It does not work with a usb data only cable.
Regarding point 1) i could not do anything for now.  I am planning to try a isolation transformer that usually filters HF noise away.
Regarding point 2)  i did try a cheap usb power supply from Teradak, the U9.  The difference for the better was very evident.  The sound was more detached from the background,
The difference between a painting and a bas-relief.
 
Conclusion
 
I think the Dac 1 is still a very competent dac.
When fed with a good digital stream the sound is very good from the XLR outs.  At least for me.
In the end, if i am not wrong, it was recommended by a very talented sound engineer.  I have great respect for the best sound engineers in general.
i am sure they carry out a huge work of testing different equipment, a think that i could not do for sure
So when they say that something is good for them ... it will be more than good for me.
As a headphone amp i would say first buy the dac 1 and then try different HPs.
I think that with some it can be very good indeed.
With others maybe just good ?
I think that it is important to fixed some element of the chain and then select the other accordingly.
Thanks a lot again for the very valuable advice.
Kind regards,
 
gino

 

[poo]

In the end, if i am not wrong, it was recommended by a very talented sound engineer.  I have great respect for the best sound engineers in general.

 
He is no longer working with Benchmark unfortunately. If it is the same person I'm thinking of he used to respond to every question asked of Benchmark products here in the forums, incredibly helpful and clearly very talented/knowledgable in his field. It's a shame to have lost his advice on the forum and his expertise in the industry, I understand he is working in another area entirely. I hope at some point that he develops future audio gear.
 
Anyway I'm glad you are enjoying aspects of the DAC1 Gino. I honestly believe that it's an excellent base around which to put together a very pleasing head-fi setup. I agree with the majority of your comments and impressions, not that it would matter if I didn't of course, everyone hears things differently and I'm sure what sounds good to some is garbage to others