[MaloS]

Looking for discussion regarding this product once again.

Original Bel Canto products were not interesting to me because of their fairly plain boxy look (>$2000 product looks worse than my surge protector?).

From what I understand, in 2007 Bel Canto revised some of their products, DAC3 included. Particularly, not just the looks improved greatly (new one woops majority of the DACs used on head-fi), but also the functionality is far more complete.

Picture (link from 6-moons review of this DAC):

The inputs are inclusive of all the standards, including USB, SE and Differential outputs are available, the DAC now supports variable and fixed outputs with a flip of a switch (great for those who may not want to add a pre-amp to their system just yet, or may be using an active speaker system, studio monitors for example), and also includes a remote to control all the functions.

In short - the functionality is very complete and thought through to my eyes, and obviously this is a Bel Canto DAC3 which is fairly well known for its sound quality...but there is still a substantial lack of user opinions, so I was wondering if someone here on head-fi has experience with one of these?
Comparisons would be very interesting.

 

[spwal]

DAC3 is amazing. Hear it for yourself. It destroys the DAC2. The USB is nice to have, as is the preamp, but me and several of my friends found it to be much better when used with a tube preamp and coax cable. But its fun to play with, and certainly saves alot of $.

 

[cconnaker]

A 24/96 via USB add on should be released for this DAC soon.

 

[musicmind]

There was also a review of the DAC3 in stereophile last year. If you look at the subsequent Benchmark DAC1 and X-DAC V8 reviews, there are some comparative comments. Patu upgraded from the Stello DA100 to the DAC3, perhaps his comments would be useful for you.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looking for discussion regarding this product once again. Original Bel Canto products were not interesting to me because of their fairly plain boxy look (>$2000 product looks worse than my surge protector?). From what I understand, in 2007 Bel Canto revised some of their products, DAC3 included. Particularly, not just the looks improved greatly (new one woops majority of the DACs used on head-fi), but also the functionality is far more complete. Picture (link from 6-moons review of this DAC): The inputs are inclusive of all the standards, including USB, SE and Differential outputs are available, the DAC now supports variable and fixed outputs with a flip of a switch (great for those who may not want to add a pre-amp to their system just yet, or may be using an active speaker system, studio monitors for example), and also includes a remote to control all the functions. In short - the functionality is very complete and thought through to my eyes, and obviously this is a Bel Canto DAC3 which is fairly well known for its sound quality...but there is still a substantial lack of user opinions, so I was wondering if someone here on head-fi has experience with one of these? Comparisons would be very interesting.

But for under 2 grand you can buy a Tri Vista

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spwal /img/forum/go_quote.gif DAC3 is amazing. Hear it for yourself. It destroys the DAC2. The USB is nice to have, as is the preamp, but me and several of my friends found it to be much better when used with a tube preamp and coax cable. But its fun to play with, and certainly saves alot of $.

Interesting that you mention that. I did run a dem of my own DAC2 against a DAC3 and felt that there was very little difference between the two. Yes the DAC3 was slightly better, but nothing like enough (IMO) to justify the cost.

Having said that, the functional improvements are seriously nice.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif But for under 2 grand you can buy a Tri Vista

Well yes, for $1100 it goes for now, the Tri-Vista is great, but it remains a single-ended DAC with only coax/optical inputs... (single ended does not worry me THAT much, but the lack of variation in inputs is a tad troublesome).

 

[fkclo]

Can any one educate me if the voltage setting user asjustable.

Yes, I know one cannot do it from the outside.

However, at Audiogon, one seller says that can be down flipping a switch inside the box, but the other one says it cannot be done. Downloaded the manual and there is nothing said on this.

I am looking for a DAC3 for 220V a.c. mains, but most available on the used market are for 110V a.c.

That's why I am asking.

Thanks in advance.

F. Lo
p.s. also looking for a Bel Canto CD-2.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

I have the Dac3 and it is a beast of a machine. I haven't come close to using all of its features. I've owned it since probably around last summer/fall.
I never heard the Lavry or Benchmark dacs. Too many common complaints about both kept me from committing to either. The main complaint I've seen concerning the Dac3 is from people who have never heard the unit; price.

Not that price is an invalid concern, but my point is I have not found too many negative opinions from experienced owners, concerning the sound.

If I decide to buy powered monitors, i.e. Dynaudio BM5a, I can simply hook them up directly to the dac via XLR. Done.

The dac has variable digital volume similar to the Lavry; if I want to plug the dac into a speaker amp, I can do so directly, without a preamp. (Though at this point I am 100% headphone based)

The other dacs I've heard (and owned) are/were the M-Audio Transit, the Emu 0404 USB and the Headamp PICO.

The PICO is the only one not completely blown out of the water by the Bel Canto. The differences are still there, but it starts to become differences in sound signature, in addition to better quality. With the M Audio and Emu, its not even close.
Obviously that says more for the PICO than the DAC3.
I should point out that I have not owned the PICO for very long though.

Using the Dac3 with HD650s is a joy. Many find the HD650 sloppy/slow/bass-heavy by nature. I never found that to be the case on a significant level, but I will admit all those attributes were lessened when paired with this dac. It is to date the most neutral sound I have ever heard.
Which of course leaves me wanting to hear it with an HP2

The strongest comment I can make here is this: Despite having 2 Headamp PICOs, I still intend at some point to purchase a second Dac3 for office use. Make no mistake, I am ecstatic with the quality of the PICOs, but having lived with the Bel Canto for ~9-10 months, I find I miss it greatly when using anything else.

 

[rogue]

Just curious, has anyone tried to use the DAC3's variable pre-amp output in place of a normal headphone amp (especially with the balanced XLR connection)? I am toying with the idea of going balanced for my HD-650's this summer, and this could kill two birds with one stone

EDIT: Sorry for any thread jack MaloS. I'm very curious as to general opinions about this DAC as well.

 

[MaloS]

Hah...I like that pic of HP-4 with DAC3, very good looking combo =]

Personally I am not particularly hyped about Pico, it is good for what it is, but there are many ways to improve. Wonder exactly how much DAC3 has on Pico, in order to make you miss it?
Also, have anyone here tried DAC3 in balanced operation with a balanced amp for 650 or something?

 

[SR-71Panorama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally I am not particularly hyped about Pico, it is good for what it is, but there are many ways to improve. Wonder exactly how much DAC3 has on Pico, in order to make you miss it?

Well to my ears, on my system, the 2 DACs have different sound signatures. There are some areas that are subtle differences, i.e. midrange, and overall neutrality, but there are also clear differences. Whereas the DAC3 is completely balanced and neutral, when switching to the Pico I can't ignore the fact that the bass changes significantly. It is a little more 'present' and full. I don't want to call it bloated, because I have heard bloated bass in the Emu 0404 USB and the Pico is in another league from that. Its kind of hard to point down, but I guess the mere presence of the difference is what I can't stop thinking about.

And as great as the Pico sounds, the top end is just plain better on the DAC3. It seems to have greater resolution and texture, and possibly extend higher. I would say that the high end is where this dac is separated from all the others I've heard, and is the most obvious quality of the dac. It does not feel too bright or too dark; it just is. (if that makes any sense)
It doesn't seem to make everything bright and sweet, or cold and clinical; if I listen to a sweet and syrupy recording, thats how it sounds. And visa versa for cold/sterile recordings. I guess you could say the DAC3 imparts relatively no character of its own to the sound. And thats what I have come to like. I'm sure this all sounds formulaic and cheesy, but its honestly what I hear.
I used to enjoy a 'fun' and bassy sound, but have found that it distorts music that doesn't have those qualities. Rather than try to fit all music to a mold of a desired sound, I would rather let the recording itself dictate how it sounds. In the long run, this method has provided me with far, far greater satisfaction than products like the Emu or Transit.
But I will say that the Pico is the most neutral source I have heard for $500.

**I'd also like to mention, all the above is in regards to the USB input on both DACs; the optical of the Bel Canto is even better than the USB counterpart

 

[hanalei mike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR-71Panorama /img/forum/go_quote.gif **I'd also like to mention, all the above is in regards to the USB input on both DACs; the optical of the Bel Canto is even better than the USB counterpart

In an email response from John Stronczer of Bel Canto, He told me that usb will sound better then the TOSLINK. I have been a/b ing between the two, and I haven't decided yet, at first I thought the TOSLINK sounded best, but John made the thing, I am sure he knows which should sound best.
One thing I noticed that I would like to point out is that the dac3 will improve drastically in sound quality after 72 hours on being turned on. I read this in the manual, and didn't pay much attention to it as most manufacturers say it is best to leave their stuff on all the time.
To be honest, when I first plugged it in I thought I had made a mistake selling my dac1. It sounded kind of flat, and rolled off in the highs. I had been a/b ing between the dac3 as a preamp, and another preamp for 2 days solid. On the morning of the third day, within minutes of playing the same songs that I am sure all my neighbors know the words too by now, I said to myself, "holy crap this sounds good". I thought with all the cable changing I had been doing that maybe I had a button or switched pushed in that I had missed, or had a power cord plugged into a different receptacle on my conditioner. And then I remembered the thing about 72 hours. It blossomed. The highs extended, and were very smooth, the sound stage deepened, the images became more 3d like I could turn my head and look behind them, and image separation is amazing, and the soundstage widened a bit to.
I am comparing the dac3 day 1 vs. day 3. I had sold the dac1 before I got the dac3 so I couldn't do a direct a/b of the two. But, I have been noticing many new things in music I am very very familiar with, so that would say to me that the dac3 is more detailed then the dac1, but, I was running the dac1 through a tube pre???????
All I know is that this is an amazing little box, my hopes were that I would be able to be happy with the dac3 as a preamp until I could afford a Cary slp-05, but now I think I may be able to be happy, period.

edit: Nope. The tube preamp is back in the chain. Sounds flat without it, less real, less bass, highs not as sparkly.

 

[shiosai]

I have owned the DAC3 since its first release (sn less than 50), and still like it a lot, the only thing is that the input from computer to its USB, I would not consider using (sound-wise). Forget USB. I use CEC TL51XR as transport to DAC3, it is almost analogue sounding, very musical. The CEC is also a CDP, but I prefer the sound of DAC3 over the CEC.

The time when I heard the Lavry and found them thin sounding but I want to give them another crack. I had Benchmark DAC1, though it's not a day and night difference from DAC1 to DAC3, the DAC1 was less musical and a bit "dry". And I value "musicality" first on top of many others (resolution, dynamic, etc). I also had the Cullen Circuits modified PS Audio Digital Link III for closed to a month, compared it side by side with DAC3, the DLIII was not as detailed sounding.

I wonder if any head-fi members have heard the underwood hifi's modified DAC3? I am getting more curious to get the DAC3 modified.

 

[SR-71Panorama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiosai /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder if any head-fi members have heard the underwood hifi's modified DAC3? I am getting more curious to get the DAC3 modified.

That makes two of us. I almost went for it originally, but figured I can always have the work done later, so I went for the stock version.

I haven't ruled it out down the line though. Perhaps if I get a second Dac3 for use in my office, I'll opt for the Underwood version