[calaf]

yesterday browsing my library surplus cart I found a 1972 Giulini/LSO recording of the 9th. An amazon search shows that this recording has been issued many times in budget form. Well, don't be fooled by the price: I won't pretend to be a Beethoven expert, but even at first listen (on my car radio...) I could tell that this is a high profile recording. Today I spent some time comparing it to the Zinman 9th and I think I understand better why: no conductor I heard, not Zinman, not Szell, certainly not Karajan, did a better job at making me hear every part in the score with such clarity. And it is not a question of tempi: Giulini second movement is 11'47'' to e.g. Zinman 12'11'', and yet Giulini seems to find the time to give every note and every instrument its due. Granted not everything is perfect: the sound in my "EMI Encore" remaster is trademark 1990s (harsh), and I find the third movement too "pastoral": beautifully played but lacking in tension. But this is more than compensated by the grace of the first movement "Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso": Giulini got those qualifiers just right.

 

[mbhaub]

Giulini was one of those conductors who seemed to do everything right. He had what is probably the smallest repertoire of any modern conductor, and limited his appearances. But that gave him time to really study a score and perfect an interpretation. He made an extraordinary Mahler 1 for EMI which is also unfortunately saddled with less than stellar sound. His Mahler 9th (on DG) is superb, and his Pictures at an Exhibition is brilliant. Giulini brought the Italian sense of balance, proportion and temperment that worked so beautifully. I went to several concerts when he was in LA and was never disappointed. I recall a Beethoven 3 that was just perfect, even though the LA Phil wasn't the top-tier group is it today. It's too bad his last recordings with Sony were so dull. That Franck d minor symphony is terrible.

 

[Hadden]

I love Giulini's Brahms syms. I haven't heard his Beethoven. There is a bargain set with 6, 8, 9 on EMI I've been eyeing.

 

[lionel marechal]

Recently I got Kleiber, the 5&7 cd. I had not enjoyed a complete 5th (and wanted to listened to it fully) for a long time.
It lead me to listen to his 6th on Orfeo. I was ... on the floor by the sheer energy of it.

I compared the 4th movement with others Karajan, Gardiner, Zinman, Bernstein, Immerseel ... and could not find a 4th movement so full and energy and almost furious wich I like a lot in that instance. Historic instruments have energy in the dynamic range, sometimes punctually, but not during the whole movement like CB. I enjoyed less the last movement, too fast I believe. but the 4th .. wow
The sound is not great, but it is still very enjoyable.

Who would be the most similar to Kleiber in term of drive and energy ? Not specifically this symphony?

thanks
Lionel

 

[Tyson]

Szell, Toscanini, and Liebowitz come closest, but no one really matches Kleiber, he's on a level all his own. My sincere wish was that he would record all 9 but alas it was not to be.

 

[pbarach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionel marechal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who would be the most similar to Kleiber in term of drive and energy ? Not specifically this symphony? thanks Lionel

You're asking about conductors who have drive and energy in ANY music? It's a long list, but some that you can count on for that quality in nearly everything they recorded are Toscanini, Tilson Thomas, Salonen, Stokowski, Reiner, Szell, Solti, and much Bernstein.

 

[mbhaub]

...and Dorati, Paray,Kletzki, Silvestri, Markevitch. Among the younger generation there aren't enough recordings to judge to really has "drive". Gustavo Dudamel sounds promising, as does Vladimir Jurowski and Tugan Sokhiev, whose only recording I know, the Tchaikovsky 4th, is possible the most thrilling account I've ever heard. I hope it wasn't a one-time performance.

 

[DarkAngel]

I often disagree with DH at classics today but he actually talked me into getting the newly released 2001 live Abbado/BPO/DG set to supplement the studio 2000 set, the 9th for both is the 2000 version that Abbado had re-edited for new set. Seems the audio from live DVD set was used for these Cds

Abbado

If this new set is any improvement over the 2000 set I will be very happy since I was impressed with Abbado's updated versions compared to his 1980's VPO set. Of course much water has passed under the dam since 1980's set with all the historically informed and original instrument sets plus the latest research for music score by Del Mar........Abbado used all these to come up with a new hybrid style for his 2000 set, classics today was not too impressed but as I said that is often a good sign for me and if Abbado thinks this new set surpasses the 2000 set I am sold.

Although DH thinks this makes Abbado look bad for wanting to change I see it differently and am reminded of former strong willed conductors like Solti who insisted on re-recording works if they were no 100% happy with the results

Awaiting arrival.........

 

[JayG]

I don't have anything specifically against a conductor re-releasing the same works if he/she thinks new recordings are better, but I do think DH has a little bit of a point in this case (a rare occurrence indeed). These "new" recordings were made the year after the "old" ones. If they were so night and day better that Abbado simply couldn't tolerate the older ones being on the market, why have 7 years passed in which the "old" ones have been selling copies and the "new" ones have been only available on DVD? Of course, the answer is so that DG can make the money back that they spent on those first recordings, which were (to make it a little worse) very heavily marketed. I'm sure Abbado had no control over this, so I don't really think he did anything wrong here, but it does seem that this is a slightly greed-motivated move by DG.

 

[DarkAngel]

Jay
I want to hear how the recording venue of St Cecilla in Rome effects the sound, hopefully a very spacious soundstage will be presented...... hopefully a certain electricity of live music making also

 

[Bunnyears]

I'm constantly told what a fine conductor Abbado is, but I find his interpretations to be overly cerebral. Because of friendly (partial?) critics, I have too many of his recordings, so now so I'm done with him. They would have to give his work away for free for another Abbado disc to find its way onto my shelves.

I find the prospect of a new Beethoven piano concerto cycle from Evgeny Sudbin and Osmo Vänskä much more interesting than another cycle from Abbado. Sudbin is a pianist to reckon with, and Vänskä is a proven, big-band Beethovenian. That cycle will be far from bloodless!

Quote:

In January 2009 Vänskä, the Orchestra and 27-year-old Yevgeny Sudbin will begin a new five-year project to record all five Beethoven piano concertos, starting with the Fourth, for the Swedish-based label BIS. For a separate BIS release, the Orchestra will record Bruckner’s Fourth Symphony during the same series of sessions.

 

[DarkAngel]

Bunny
Did you get the new Brautigam/BIS Beethoven PC 1,3 hybrid SACD?
Does it maintain the high levels we have come to expect from Brautigam

I think he uses modern piano here and not a forte piano as in the sonatas

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bunny Did you get the new Brautigam/BIS Beethoven PC 1,3 hybrid SACD? Does it maintain the high levels we have come to expect from Brautigam I think he uses modern piano here and not a forte piano as in the sonatas

I haven't gotten that yet. I was put off, no disappointed by the fact that he used a Steinway D rather than a period piano and that the ensemble also is modern instrument. However, I've been listening to clips of it and have become more reconciled to possibly picking it up. Brautigam is an excellent Beethovenian, and while I would have loved the period instruments, I also love modern instrument Beethoven. So, I keep arguing towards the purchase. At this point I'm also interested in the new Sudbin/Vänskä cycle that Bis will be recording over the next 5 years. With that big-band modern instrument cycle in the works, I can't imagine what Bis was thinking in going for this pseudo-HIP recording, no matter how good it may be. Had they (imo correctly) opted for period instruments, I think it would have been the reference concerto cycle. I'm also not that much of a Parrott-Beethoven fan, but DH did approve (9/9) - for whatever that's worth.

If you pick it up, let me know what you think of it!

 

[Tyson]

Bunny,
You and I are in agreement regarding Abbado. I like some of his earlier recordings, but the last 20 years have seen him turn into the Kenny G of the classical world. Too smooth, too perfect, resulting in the abstract of music and not the lifeblood of music itself.

 

[Bunnyears]

Tyson,

I never would have compared Abbado to Kenny G! After all, the still has melodic structure -- it has a beginning, middle and end. But his interpretations are emotionally detached, especially his Mahler which I think of as anti-Mahler.

I hate to do long-distance analysis, but in the aftermath of his bout with cancer his music has become so cerebral, with all joy suppressed, that I suspect he is a man who is depressed and fearful. What you don't feel cannot hurt you; but music that squashes the emotions is hollow.