[Gopher]

Hey guys,

Well--through some fortunate turn of events I'm finding myself with a very nice budget for new speakers and amplification--approximatly $3500. I've got a million ideas of how to spend it, and am not sure which one to pursue.

My sources will be as follows:

Philips 963SA
Music Hall MMF-5
Nad 4155

The sources with the exception of the cart in the MMF-5 will not be changed as they are gifts. My current system is a Jolida 1501RC Magnepan MMGs and M&K MX-90 sub. I have really become a fan of the maggie sound, and am going to try and audition some 1.6s this weekend. I think I can get a pair for around ~1200 shipped, and for amplification I was considering some VTL monoblocks--no idea of preamp... maybe a Gilmore Reference?

Another idea I have based on recomendations of friends/stereophile is picking up a pair of Triangle Celius (~1500 used) and a Unison Unico. This would put me under budget has dual speaker outs, and I could pick up my K-1000s and sell off the other guys.

How would you guys spend then the money? I might be able to stretch it father with an integrated amp, and would love recommendations for one with a great HP jack. I suspect the Cary 300SEI would do a great job of driving my CD3Ks (which will very likely be my only phones for a while, depending on cost of upgrades) as I've heard it drive the R-10s beautifully, and it would probably do a great job with the Triangles as well. My only problem there is the amps physical design (I don't want open tubes on the shelf of my flexi).

I don't have musical preferences per say. I'm pretty much all over--female vocals, all sorts of Jazz, folk, bluegrass, rock, and a few miscellaneous others, so I guess I need a pretty versatile setup.

I know this is vauge, but all recommendations are welcome. I really can't go over budget and would probably prefer to stay under it if possible. Have some fun with your recommendations.

Fred

P.S. I think I'd prefer floor standing speakers--but nothing ridiculously large they'll have to be transported at the end of the year and shipping will take a chunk.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

As to speakers, check these out at $1100: http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80ti.html
(Heavy, yes. But with the money you save you can use for shipping.)

For amps, check out some of the higher end Denons as they sound awesome and their headphone jacks will surprise you.

 

[SuperGiraffe]

Congrats on the good fortune! If I had $3500 to spend on amplification and speakers, right now, I'd probably get: Aragon 28K mkII Preamp ($750 at Audio Advisor); Marsh A200S Amp ($1250, demo, also at AA); and a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII bookshelf speakers (between $1250 and $1600, used, at Audiogon). That's what I'd do today -- tomorrow, I might choose something slightly different.

 

[Wilson M.]

Are you looking at tube gear only or is solid state an option?

I don't recommend VTL amps. Reliability issues but if you find some with a proven service record then they are decent amps.

I've heard several Unison integrated amps and they are very nice.

If Divergent wasn't such a pain in the ass, ASL has some pretty nice amps at low prices.

The new Audio Research 55 watt amp isn't very good. If you can find some of the older amps then those are nice but they are usually pricey on the used market (since the new stuff sucks).

I could never appreciate Conrad-Johnson's sound. Sounds far too coloured to me (although their solid state stuff is quite good).

If you can find older BAT amps (VK-60), those are quite something.

I haven't heard the Manley Stingray personally but some people I trust say that it's quite a decent sounding amp but really ugly.

I was never fond of Quicksilver amps other than the 60s.

I've auditioned Rogue Audio amps and they are decent for the money but hard to find used since they haven't been around too long. The 120 Magnum monoblocks are very nice but pricey and not likely found used.

Depending on speaker sensitivity and room size, I've always liked the Cary 300B monoblocks but you have to get decent tubes. The 300SEI is okay but I liked the monoblocks better. Not too hard to find used but price might be a bit high (i.e. you'll need to wait to find the good deals).

I had a Rocket 88 for a while and it was a great little amp but a bit underpowered for my room/speakers.

Low powered SET is a pain in the ass unless you live in a closet or like really high sensitivity speakers with gutless bass.

Pre-amps are more problematic.

Do you have a separate phono stage? I like the Modulus 3A and you can find a lot of them on the used market since they haven't really changed it for 8 years but the dual volume control can be a pain but it's got one of the best phono stages for a pre-amp. If you have a low output cartridge then you'll need the gold phono board otherwise the built-in phono has decent gain. The CAT and Hovland are probably the only ones I think with superior phono stages selling today (at less than $7000).

The Melos SHA-1, Gold and Gold Reference are very decent pre-amps and some have built-in phono (it was an option I believe). Obviously, very decent headphone amp.

I thought the Gilmore Reference was a headphone amp only (similar in design to the Blockhead). The V2-SE is a full pre-amp and the Premier might be as well.

Triangle speakers are nice but they suffer 2 problems. Very long break-in (it's the cellulose drivers). Their bass response is a bit suspect. They traded low bass for speaker sensitivity.

Maggies are nice as long as you either accept the bass response or get a subwoofer.

The Dynaudio 1.3s are a good choice. I have the Revel M20s and they work really well with tubes. B&W speakers have a "family colour" to them. So do Paradigms.

Joseph Audio has some very nice speakers but they may be too big and pricey. Totem is worth looking at as well.

I could never get into Vandersteens or Thiels. I've not listened to JMlab speakers.

I hope this helps.

 

[Ctn]

http://www.ambiencespeakers.com.au/P...ultra1400.html

Why not consider a pair of these?

Hybrid ribbon speakers.

 

[tom hankins]

Fred, how big of a room are you in? You might want to keep this in mind not only for speakers but for how much power you will need from your amp.

 

[Howie]

Guys keep in mind when you're recommending speakers that he likes the sound of Maggies. That means speakers like Dynaudio and Axiom may not be the best recommendation.

My recommendation is that if you like the sound of Maggies go for Maggies. Maggies owners I know have a hard time finding speakers that they like over their Maggies. But you do need some room for them and some solid amplification.

I would stretch for the speakers that you like and search the use market for good deals on amplification.

 

[MoLtoSoLo]

I would suggest a pair of Dynaudio Acoustic BM15A active speakers. And some nice preamp/headphone amp, like MPX3, sha1, HR2, Gilmore SE...etc
Enjoy

 

[dd3mon]

Quote:

Originally posted by MoLtoSoLo I would suggest a pair of Dynaudio Acoustic BM15A active speakers. And some nice preamp/headphone amp, like MPX3, sha1, HR2, Gilmore SE...etc Enjoy

Have you heard these, or any of the dynaudio active series? I've considered a pair of these in the past, but I don't know how well they'd work out of the nearfield (even in a very small room, which would be the case for me).

-dd3mon

 

[Squalish]

Have you ever heard electrostatics? You seem to have a pretty damn good selection of dynamics. If you were so inclined, that is probably enough to get a top-notch 'static system(KGBH/OmegaII), and still have a little left over for speakers.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilson M. A Low powered SET is a pain in the ass unless you live in a closet or like really high sensitivity speakers with gutless bass.

There's nothing gutless or pain in the arse about SET amps. At least mine aren't.

And I don't have high sensitivity speakers nor live in a closet.

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gopher recomendations of friends/stereophile is picking up a pair of Triangle Celius (~1500 used) and a Unison Unico. This would put me under budget has dual speaker outs, and I could pick up my K-1000s and sell off the other guys. How would you guys spend then the money? I might be able to stretch it father with an integrated amp, and would love recommendations for one with a great HP jack. I suspect the Cary 300SEI would do a great job of driving my CD3Ks (which will very likely be my only phones for a while, depending on cost of upgrades) as I've heard it drive the R-10s beautifully, and it would probably do a great job with the Triangles as well.

Be careful of Triangle Celius speakers.
Unlike other Triangle speakers, they have a rather strange dip in impedance where it can make life difficult for tube amps.

For good all around speakers, try Audes.
• Audes Studio

 

[Wilson M.]

Quote:

Originally posted by kuma There's nothing gutless or pain in the arse about SET amps. At least mine aren't. And I don't have high sensitivity speakers nor live in a closet.

Sorry but I said "low powered SET" in my post and those amps are typically gutless and a pain in the ass.

What do you have? Your profile lists the Art Audio which is a Push-Pull ultralinear and the Nagra MPA (which is a MOSFET amp). Is it the MPA or VPA? The VPA is still a Push-Pull design despite the use of triodes so it's not a SET amp in my books.

You know as well as I do that the WATT 6s need juice and 2-15 watts out of a low powered SET amp is not going to cut it.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule with everything in life but the majority of SET amps are low power (flea power even) and the ones that aren't low powered (845, 853, 211, T-1610, 6H33, 6C33CB and a few output tubes that I can't remember) are WAY above his price point even on the used market.

(Sorry to sound gruff but it's 3 am.)

 

[Gopher]

Wow guys! I've got some great recommendations comming in!

I actually had the opportunity to stop at a hifi shop after work and give the Maggie 1.6s a good thorough listen, and was quite fond of them. The listening room was not ideal, amplificaiton was a Rotel home theater amp and cables were some cheap Tara Labs stuff, and I've gotta say--I was VERY pleased with what I heard. When I auditioned some B&Ws (can't remember the model, but I think they listed at 2600-were floorstanders--and had a tweeter without the ring around it)they had in the same room I realized that the maggies (though an improvent on my baby mags) wre missing out a bit on the bottom end, so I'll likely hold my M&K sub until I can afford something nicer like a used REL--for the time being I think I'd be very happy with the maggies and miller though.

I don't recall the dimensions of the room they'll be in, but 15x18 rings a bell. I'll be in an apartment and won't have any opportuinity to realy let them go but just the same, if I were going with those I'd want the power behind them. I'm probably going to check out Odyssey Stratos (stereo & dual mono & mono blocks) as well.

Everything is an option, I'd probably prefer tubes, but in my price range I'm sure theres some amazing used SS options I don't want to overlook.

I don't think I want to invest this money into headphones, but if I end up going with something effeicent (speaker wise) the Cary 300SEI looks very interesting and would increase my budget by about $400 as I could sell off my headamp. So many options--this is gonna be fun to research!

Thanks everyone, keep 'em comming!

Fred

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilson M. Sorry but I said "low powered SET" in my post and those amps are typically gutless and a pain in the ass.

Guess the word 'typically' is the key here. I have also heard way too many 'gutless' tube amps that don't belong in our house. I agree that if you define 'flea power' less than 5 watt, you do need single driver or horn type speakers to get the most out ot 'em. But some types of tube, PX-25 (@ 6 wpc ) , for example, can drive K1000 as well as conventional dynamic speakers with benign impedance ( I've tried Soliloquy 5.0s and Reference 3A to good effect ) to an ear splitting level without letting go of bottom octaves definition and authority.

I am a closet solid state lover yet so far the tube amps I had dealing with haven't been too pain in the arse. Except I still crunge on the thought of the high voltage inside these critters.
Maybe I've been lucky, but I haven't had any melt down yet.

Quote:

What do you have? Your profile lists the Art Audio which is a Push-Pull ultralinear and the Nagra MPA (which is a MOSFET amp). Is it the MPA or VPA? The VPA is still a Push-Pull design despite the use of triodes so it's not a SET amp in my books.

I use Art Audio SET Jota monoblock ( 30 wpc from a single KR52BX output tube ) in the main rig. They drive 87db. 4 ohm standmounts in a medium size living room. And occasinally, I use Grado RS1 in the same rig. And actually, the bass definition is better on Jota than Concerto push-pull I normaly use with RS1.
Granted, they are modified to meet the lower impedance and have a solid state soft start rectifier before tube rectification for better transients.

Perhaps, they don't have the most liquid midrnage SETs are known for, but, It was the bass delivery of these amps that made me dumped the Krell monoblocks.

The amp to power WATT 6 is MPA. I tried the VPA ( indeed 845 push-pull ). You know what? They run out of steam! They had wads of low end authority yet seriously lacked in definition, agility and clarity over my SET.

Quote:

You know as well as I do that the WATT 6s need juice and 2-15 watts out of a low powered SET amp is not going to cut it.

Yeah. I realise that. That's why I chose MPA. WATT's sensitivity is fine but their wild impedance swing at cross over point made very difficult for most tube as well as solid state amplifiers.
I did try Jota monoblocks with WATT6 in my small office space, here. They clipped at the cross over point ( if i remember correctly around 2.5k region ), but the bass stayed in tact to my surprise. Also note that I listen to quite a number of dance and ambiant techno. Not typically associated with SET set up.

You are right, 2-15 watters aint gonna cut it with WATT. Altho, I've been trying out a 16 watt 845 based SET amplifier that uses MOSFET power supply in a main rig.
It's a bit of strench yet, actually, this one paces better than Jota. I'm planning to use it with Grado later on. My guess is that it'll deliver better bass and clarity than Concerto.

It is somewhat unfortunate most SETs are 'typically' warm and cuddly.

Art Audio amps fall into the exception rather than norm. They are not cheap, but for what they deliver I don't consider 'em to be rudiculously out of proportion. ( try to get the same sound out of solid state ! A sure way to a financial ruin. )

If a listener mostly listen to vocals, jazz, even classical and rock at a moderate level, most tube amps should please many people. I think majority of people get into tube gear to get that warmish sound and avoid harshness.