[MICHAELSD]

I bet you couldn't tell the difference in a Bluetooth blind listening test. Also, how could AAC over Bluetooth sound better than wired? Where is the evidence? I think people go overboard in placing importance on codecs for Bluetooth. If the source files are of sufficiently high quality (ie at least hi bit rate lossy), then differences between codecs are inaudible.

256kbp/s AAC files are either passed through directly to the headphone or transmitted at 264kbp/s on an iPhone to ensure no quality loss. Due to the wireless nature, the headphones are utilizing their own amp and DAC rather than relying on the source device. Assuming proper design and a quality amp/DAC, this leads to a better sound than an unamp’d wired connection as there is no degradation in file quality and the headphones are utilizing components designed to make them sound their best.

 

[329161]

256kbp/s AAC files are either passed through directly to the headphone or transmitted at 264kbp/s on an iPhone to ensure no quality loss. Due to the wireless nature, the headphones are utilizing their own amp and DAC rather than relying on the source device. Assuming proper design and a quality amp/DAC, this leads to a better sound than an unamp’d wired connection as there is no degradation in file quality and the headphones are utilizing components designed to make them sound their best.

Misinformation. How can there be an "unamp'd wired connection " ? Whether the dac/amp is in the source player or the headphone, makes no difference to the sound quality unless the dac/amp is better in one or the other. Why would the signal be degraded over wire?

 

[trellus]

RTings.com found the Solo3 to be markedly superior to the Solo2. You can use their side by side tool to compare their measurements.

http://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare

Mids and soundstage measure better on their ratings for the Solo 2 Wireless than the Solo 3, and overall for sound it was very close - 7.3 for Solo 2 Wireless and 7.6 for Solo 3.

That seems about right to my ears - hard to distinguish between the two.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Misinformation. How can there be an "unamp'd wired connection " ? Whether the dac/amp is in the source player or the headphone, makes no difference to the sound quality unless the dac/amp is better in one or the other. Why would the signal be degraded over wire?

I should’ve clarified by unamp’d I meant without the use of an external amplifier.

I’m not implying the signal would be degraded over wire, rather that wireless has an advantage as the amp and DAC in the headphones can be designed to take better advantage of the headphones.

 

[329161]

I should’ve clarified by unamp’d I meant without the use of an external amplifier.

I’m not implying the signal would be degraded over wire, rather that wireless has an advantage as the amp and DAC in the headphones can be designed to take better advantage of the headphones.

What difference does it make whether the amp is external or not? Please also quantify your second assertion that "the amp and DAC in the headphones can be designed to take better advantage of the headphones" better than, say the dac/amp in the Mojo, or QP1r, or even a smartphone? Where are you getting your information from? Or are you just assuming things? I'm not being rude, but there are no facts to back up what you say.

 

[MacedonianHero]

That is kind of a problem for a lot of people!

Certainly not me. For portable headphones, I think the QC35s sound very good and right there with the MDR1000X. The former is more open and balanced, while the latter is thicker and warmer sounding. SQ between these two are preferences IMO. Comfort and noise isolation though are clearly in the QC35's realm.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/comparisons-34-of-the-top-closed-portable-headphones-around.672743/

 

[MICHAELSD]

What difference does it make whether the amp is external or not? Please also quantify your second assertion that "the amp and DAC in the headphones can be designed to take better advantage of the headphones" better than, say the dac/amp in the Mojo, or QP1r, or even a smartphone? Where are you getting your information from? Or are you just assuming things? I'm not being rude, but there are no facts to back up what you say.

It’s widely accepted that external amps are superior to amps found inside of the typical phone or computer, though I’ve never personally gotten into that side of the hobby.

General knowledge after reading probably hundreds of articles about headphones and wireless headphones, as well as experience. A good wireless headphone will have a high quality amp/DAC that makes for a better listening experience. This can also be seen with companies like Audeze offering wired headphones with their own Cipher Lightning cable that includes a carefully-constructed amp/DAC setup.

When the file is being fed digitally directly to the headphones it opens up the opportunity for the manufacturer to 100% control the sound.

 

[329161]

It’s widely accepted that external amps are superior to amps found inside of the typical phone or computer, though I’ve never personally gotten into that side of the hobby.

General knowledge after reading probably hundreds of articles about headphones and wireless headphones, as well as experience. A good wireless headphone will have a high quality amp/DAC that makes for a better listening experience. This can also be seen with companies like Audeze offering wired headphones with their own Cipher Lightning cable that includes a carefully-constructed amp/DAC setup.

When the file is being fed digitally directly to the headphones it opens up the opportunity for the manufacturer to 100% control the sound.

It may be true that larger sized external dac/amps sound better than those found in smartphones, but generally those found in Bluetooth headphones are not on par with those external boxes. What you're suggesting is that Bluetooth headphones sound better than wired headphones, however, it's overwhelmingly generally accepted that the opposite is true. I have no idea what research you've done, but I've literally not heard anyone say that a Bluetooth headphone sounds better than a wired one of comparable price. Have a look at the reviews of wireless headphones on a site such as Innerfidelity. Virtually all of them indicate that the bt headphones performed worse than their wired counterparts of similar price.
I own for example the B&W P7wireless. It sounds distinctly better via analogue cable than via Bt. That's also the general consensus on the P7 w thread. The Sennheiser M2 wireless sounds very subpar for it's price, so do all the Beats wireless. I don't know how many wired and wireless headphones you've owned/heard. I've owned and heard countless cans in my travels (I'm constantly selling off and buying new), and NONE of the wireless ones sounded as good as their similarly priced wired counterparts. I own the Audio Technica DSR9bt. I use it with the ak300 via aptx hd. This headphone's method of digital transmission is directly streamed straight to the listener. It has wider bandwidth than AAC bt and there is no digital to analogue conversion. My point is, it's as directly digital as headphones get. The similarly priced Beyer dt1770 pro wired headphone sounds better in every way.
You say you've read articles supporting your argument. Can you provide a link to any of them?

 

[AlwaysForward]

I think dfac73 is correct here in the context of wired sounding significantly better than wireless.

IIRC, there are some headphones that are well systematized and sound better wireless than wired but they still will not sound better than a price comparable wired design.

Perhaps MICHAELSD is suggesting that a well implemented wireless set in 2017 could compete or perhaps outperform the sound directly from an iPhone. That might be true with some models if they have sufficiently strong built in amplification. However, as noted, they won’t sound as good as something passive driven by a high end rig.

I do imagine a point in the future when Bluetooth becomes lossless that a well implemented onboard system could leave nothing to be desired for an audiophile.

But we’re not there yet.

 

[SantosLHalper]

For those of you with experience with wireless beats headphones, does the audio quality change at all if you have them plugged into your device versus wireless?

 

[MICHAELSD]

For those of you with experience with wireless beats headphones, does the audio quality change at all if you have them plugged into your device versus wireless?

I find the Solo3 to be notably better in wireless mode which led me to my conclusion that wireless headphones can sound better than simply using a wire plugged into a smartphone. Apple took some liberties somewhere with the DAC or the amp and they paid off with better separation, a wider soundstage, and a more impactful bass. I don’t like them nearly as much in wired mode for what it’s worth.

Just my opinion. Headphone manufacturers can cherry-pick and design parts for wireless headphones that allow them to sound their best.

 

[buddhabone]

I'm fairly sure that the W1 chip must be doing something good for the sound (I'm a novice when it comes discussing this stuff) My Solo 3s sound great with my iPhone 7 Plus. When I paired them with my PC they sounded awful.

There must be something going on with the DAC in the solo3s when paired with an apple device.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I think dfac73 is correct here in the context of wired sounding significantly better than wireless.

IIRC, there are some headphones that are well systematized and sound better wireless than wired but they still will not sound better than a price comparable wired design.

Perhaps MICHAELSD is suggesting that a well implemented wireless set in 2017 could compete or perhaps outperform the sound directly from an iPhone. That might be true with some models if they have sufficiently strong built in amplification. However, as noted, they won’t sound as good as something passive driven by a high end rig.

I do imagine a point in the future when Bluetooth becomes lossless that a well implemented onboard system could leave nothing to be desired for an audiophile.

But we’re not there yet.

Wired generally sounds better but that’s a gross generalization. We’ve reached the point where wireless headphones can be indiscernible in quality with certain formats or better, which is why I’ve transitioned over to wireless. When I looked at headphones a few years ago I didn’t consider wireless at all as I wanted the best sound, but now the convenience of wireless is too good to give up to the point that I’ll take a slight quality hit for wireless. Fortunately with AAC files, which Apple Music uses, there is no difference.

Maybe it’s a fault of certain wireless headphones for not sounding better in wired mode (and it is, some like the QC35 are not designed to be good wired headphones), but I think once people get their hands on Studio3 they’ll hear what I’m talking about with a sound enhanced by the onboard electronics rather than detracted from.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I'm fairly sure that the W1 chip must be doing something good for the sound (I'm a novice when it comes discussing this stuff) My Solo 3s sound great with my iPhone 7 Plus. When I paired them with my PC they sounded awful.

There must be something going on with the DAC in the solo3s when paired with an apple device.

I’d bet the main difference is the AAC codec. Your PC likely is just transmitting SBC. I do agree the Solo3’s quality is downright magical with iPhone 7 Plus because of how totally uncompressed it sounds.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Beats should really pay me for how hard I’m helping push their products which are finally good.