Baseball
Jul 10, 2002 at 2:15 PM Post #16 of 34
Seems silly for players making so much money per year and then to go out on strike... seems silly for players to make so much money to play a game.

But the reality is... SO WHAT?

Why does it matter how much they make? They get paid what they get paid because they CAN. If someone offered you serveral million dollars per year to play a game (or for that matter, to do anything), wouldn't you? Especially if you love that game or activity?

Might as well ask why Mickeal Isner gets paid hundreds of millions of dollars a year just because he runs Disney. Or better yet, why do so many CEOs get paid millions of dollars while their companies stock prices fall? The answer is: because they CAN. They are the best at what they do. The provide products or services that people want. Period. If they can no longer provide the products/services that people want, they will no longer receive the same level of compensation that they once did.

It's no different in any profession. People get paid what they get paid because the can. That price is based on what the market is like and what people negotiate and bargain for. Simple, pure capitalism.

You can complain about it all you want, but my guess is that almost everyone at this board would like to make money and most of us are actively engaged in obtaining money or working our way towards a degree which will allow us to obtain money to earn a living. You as the individual have to decide what you want to do to earn a living. You may choose to engage in an activity that is more rewarding to you than just the pursuit of money. But you choose it because it is more rewarding to you. Salaries are based on what the market will bear and what society collectively decides is valuable.

While one can argue about the relative vaule of compensation, it really doesn't change the equation at all.
Example: If we, as a society, suddenly decided that sanitation engineers (trash collectors) were an extremely valuable profession that deserved compensation in the 6 or 7 figure range, would that be wrong? No, it's not wrong because the society decided that it was appropriate. If we as a society decide that it's not really worth that much to be a sanitation engineer, then the compensation for the job would be much less. It's not the trash man's fault that his wages are what they are. The same way it's not the baseball players fault that their compensation is what it is, and it's not the CEO's fault that their compensation is what it is.

One of my favorite professors has a great saying.

"It's not a sin to make money. It's a sin to cheat people."

Right now, the list of sinners is getting bigger... from Enron to WorldCom and the others that will likely follow. They took peoples money mislead them, and trashed their retirement funds. Is the situation the same for the baseball players union? I don't think so. But that's just my opinion.

Bruce
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 2:24 PM Post #17 of 34
Quote:

Originally posted by acs236
I'm with you Grinch... I was rooting for the strike. I will root for the upcoming Strike. Bah.. I just don't like baseball. It pre-empts the Simpsons too often.


I hope that there isn't a strike. I get some of my best sleep watching a baseball game in the Summer. A nice cold drink and maybe a snack. Before you know it I am lulled into a gentle sleep. A couple of hours pass, the game ends and I wake up refreshed ready for the rest of the day.

Then comes the Fall, football is my game of choice there for a good nap. Close your eyes for just a second between plays and before you know it the game is over.

What would I do without professional sports -- Chores around the house, read, listen to music, golf? A strike would be hard on the economy as well. Just think of all that beer that would go un used and the Doritos.
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 3:03 PM Post #18 of 34
Trying to watch baseball is an utter chore.

last year i was lucky enough to go see the Brooklyn cyclones a few times and had a blast. I really enjoyed the atmosphere of the ball park. Any seat in there was a good seat, plus everyone was into the game, so it just added to the fun.

For us Ny'ers, the yankee games play on the Yes network, so we don't miss out on Seinfeld or the Simpsons reruns any longer
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Jul 10, 2002 at 3:32 PM Post #19 of 34
There are no ties in baseball! This isn't hockey! This isn't soccer! It's not raining! No one died! Ah!

I've always thought the All-Star game was stupid. You pick a bunch of players based on their numbers through half a season (well, really based on their popularity, but we'll ignore that), send them to play a game a lot of them don't even want to play ... and then you get things like what happened last night.

Now, from what I hear, the All-Star game used to be more than a stupid exhibition game. I mean, they did spend a half hour before the game relating stories about things such as Ted William's 1941 All-Star game-winning home run, which he called the best moment of his career. But, okay, I can take the All-Star game as an exhibition, that's fine. I've never really understood taking guys out of the middle of their season, screwing up pitching rotations, risking guys getting injured, etc. From a player's perspective, I could definitely understand not wanting to attend the All-Star game.

But there are fans too. It is neat to see Pedro mow down every batter he faces, batters that are supposed to be the best in baseball. But then, remember that Pedro injured himself overthrowing in that game, and ended up on the DL for a lot of the second half. This year he declined to attend the All-Star game. Okay, so it's not what it used to be. But if you're going to have it, you can't call the game after eleven inningsbecause everyone's tired of playing! This is baseball, not tiddlywinks! Ah!

kerelybonto
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 3:48 PM Post #20 of 34
As for baseball itself --

Well, yes, it's in bad shape. It's taken eight years to get attendance back to pre-strike levels. Immediately after one of the best Series ever last year, the Commish announces he's wacking two teams. We're on track for another strike. The All-Star game ended in a tie!

Let's flashback to 1993 for a moment. Regular season attendance was over 70 million, a number not reached again until last year (and there are more teams now than in 1993). The biggest payroll was the Tigers' at about $50 million. Yeah, the Detroit Tigers had the most expensive team in baseball! The Tigers are now one of the many teams who can't afford to compete. Money in baseball never used to be an issue. Then came the strike. Now money wins games.

If there's another player's strike, it's over. No one's going to pay attention to baseball, and I won't blame anyone -- we don't want to watch a wicked game of Monopoly, we want to watch baseball. Fair baseball. Really, even if the players don't strike, we need a real CBA that makes real changes.

kerelybonto
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 4:21 PM Post #21 of 34
By the way, what is the point of all you people whining about a sport you don't even like? Of course you can't appreciate baseball -- you probably can't tell the difference between a cut fastball and Wistler's mother. But don't blame the game if you think it's boring. For the most part, it's your problem, not the game's.

gloco, why do you go to games if it's "an utter chore?"

kerelybonto
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 4:29 PM Post #22 of 34
I love baseball if I am at the game. From Little League to MLB it is fun to watch. Same with football. I think there is something about TV that takes away from the game and puts me to sleep.

Baseball has remained relatively affordable so I go on occasion. The sport I truly love though is hockey and ticket prices are getting out of hand. In the old Chicago stadium our seats were $8 apiece in the mid 80s. In the new United Center they are $75 for the same seat. Add $10 for parking and the cost of food you have a very expensive evening if you want to take the family.
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 5:01 PM Post #23 of 34
john_jcb: Agree 100%... especially about hockey! IMHO: No better sporting experience for the fans than a playoff hockey game. Everything moves faster, everyone hits harder... It's truly a beautiful thing. And, there are no ties!

Bruce
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 5:43 PM Post #24 of 34
I understand baseball just fine. I think its popularity has dropped over the years in part because it lacks the excitement of other games and the season is too damn long. I enjoy going to a game every now and then, but still. Enjoyment of baseball is proportional to how much beer you consume, but that might be true for all sports. But certainly "games" can be boring -- that's why you probably don't play tic-tac-toe anymore, which is only slighly more entertaining than baseball.
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Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto
By the way, what is the point of all you people whining about a sport you don't even like? Of course you can't appreciate baseball -- you probably can't tell the difference between a cut fastball and Winstler's mother. But don't blame the game if you think it's boring. For the most part, it's your problem, not the game's.

gloco, why do you go to games if it's "an utter chore?"

kerelybonto


 
Jul 10, 2002 at 7:56 PM Post #25 of 34
The game's only got better as the years have rolled by. The teams draw talent from all over world, and players are definitely better than they used to be. Baseball is certainly no less exciting than it's been for the past 120 years.

Except for football, no sport has more strategy involved than baseball. It's just all in the details, which most people, even most baseball fans, don't notice or understand. Watch the center fielder start toward right field when he sees the catcher set up outside. Watch the pitch sequence and decide if it's a slider or fastball coming up next. Watch the batter open his stance on 3-1.

Baseball has more consistent action than football. It's not nearly as boring as NBA basketball. Really, if you're missing it, it's because you're missing it.

kerelybonto
 
Jul 10, 2002 at 9:09 PM Post #26 of 34
Still not exciting...

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto
Watch the center fielder start toward right field when he sees the catcher set up outside. Watch the pitch sequence and decide if it's a slider or fastball coming up next. Watch the batter open his stance on 3-1.
kerelybonto


 
Jul 10, 2002 at 10:11 PM Post #27 of 34
Those were examples of things most baseball watchers don't even know exist. Watching the whole game makes it much more interesting, in my opinion.

So what do you consider exciting? Football maybe? Why, because some guys go after each other every forty seconds? Well, okay, but I wouldn't find that too exciting if I couldn't also watch the receivers crack while the D-ends drop back into coverage and three linebackers time their charges in a zone blitz. Maybe some are just more easily entertained ... but it's definitely not the baseball fans.

kerelybonto
 
Jul 11, 2002 at 1:33 AM Post #28 of 34
I don't watch baseball as much as some people, but really enjoy the strategy and depth when I do. Despite its image sometimes, its a thinking man's game. Its great...

Uh, but Bud Selig is an idiot. I agree 100% with calling the all star game last night, but the way they did it was ridiculous. Meeting in the middle of the 11th for that long was uncalled for. Then announcing their plans during the middle of the bottom of the 11th?! Ugh, its like they wanted a riot! Then, the new Ted Williams award (RIP) wasn't even awarded! Come on, give two if you have to, don't just not give it! It was upsetting, because baseball really needed a good night because of all the strike talk. Oh well....the game was good while it lasted.
 
Jul 11, 2002 at 1:43 AM Post #29 of 34
The All Star game proved that Bball players are wusses. As if someone's arm would fall off if they went in to pitch. The comparison with the Tour de France (currently on) or even World Cup Soccer is very embarrassing to baseballers!!
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Jul 11, 2002 at 1:51 AM Post #30 of 34
I don't deny that baseball strategy has a lot of depth. And I'm by no means a sports fan. When I watch sports, it's usually college football. But to me, what you describe about football (timed blitzes, etc.) is much more enjoyable than watching the infield shift. I know I'm not being fair, and I certainly don't mean to peg baseball as objectively inferior. I think football interests me more because it's closer to war -- it's territorial, there's lots of pushing, spectacular plays are more common, and usually more meaningful (like the average football game compared to baseball). If can drop 5 or more games in a row in baseball and still have a great season -- generally, each football game means somethings. I guess I just don't have the patience for baseball. And I am serious that it pisses me off when it pre-emps the Simpsons.

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto
Those were examples of things most baseball watchers don't even know exist. Watching the whole game makes it much more interesting, in my opinion.

So what do you consider exciting? Football maybe? Why, because some guys go after each other every forty seconds? Well, okay, but I wouldn't find that too exciting if I couldn't also watch the receivers crack while the D-ends drop back into coverage and three linebackers time their charges in a zone blitz. Maybe some are just more easily entertained ... but it's definitely not the baseball fans.

kerelybonto


 

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