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grinch

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quite frankly, i hope it's on its way out. i am so sick of players getting paid $14 million a year to play an elaborated game of fetch while wearing tights. i have felt this way for quite a few years though. it all happened in 1994 actually.

great year: pulp fiction came out and kurt cobain killed himself. also the year that baseball players went on strike because they weren't getting paid enough TO PLAY A GAME. i was mature enough at this point to decide that such a thing is a load of garbage and i have been doing my part to badmouth/boycott the load of crap ever since.

well the badmouthing part of the deal has come back to haunt me yesterday, when i bought a newspaper for the first time in a year. i generally don't read the newspaper as it depresses the hell out of me and always ends up putting me in a bad mood, which i am good enough at by myself. i was scanning through, and then i found an article about how the players union is going to strike again. apparently, there is a group of people proposing to put a luxury tax on the rich teams' higher salaries. the players are willing to strike so that this doesn't happen. this all seemed like the usual garbage to me, as i continued to the end of the article where i got really pissed. the last paragraph states and i quote (i cut the damn thing out):

Bonds was asked by The Washington Post whether he felt fans could empathize with players who make an average of $2.4 million. "It's not my fault you don't play baseball," Bonds said empathetically.

if you can honestly read that and think "gee, i can't wait for tonight's yankee game," then i really hope you realize that you are a cow being herded toward the intellectual slaughter house by the country's collective marketing department. (no offense to head-fi's own moogoesthecow)

anyway, i just thought i'd share that and was wondering if anybody else has strong feelings about this.
 
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DanG

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To be honest, I think it's a bit silly to make such moral judgments on people's forms of entertainment. Most of the imposed restrictions on baseball players come from the very point of view that Bonds suggested -- that we don't play baseball. How is getting lots of money for playing baseball any different than earning the same amount for singing? Acting? Selling things that have no purpose but to entertain?

Do members of any other profession have to face luxury taxes on their salaries? No, not as far as I know. Taxes in general are rather harmful as they are the primary cause of DWL (dead-weight loss). They are imposed because we need to run our government, and that can only be done with money. Picking out one group or another for higher taxes because it's not "fair" that people earn money for playing baseball is either sadistic or an act of envy, depending on the profession, I'm sure.

However, I do agree with your denunciation of the New York Yankees. They embody the Steinbrennerian spirit of money-is-all and soul-less baseball. Go Sox!
 
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john_jcb

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Dan is right, it isn't the sport we played as youngsters. Baseball and every other professional sport is a money making proposition. Even hockey has succumbed to the almighty dollar. If fans and corporations are willing to pay for advertising, tickets and $5.00 beers for entertainment why blame the atheletes. They have for the most part devoted their lives to get where they are today. their careeers can be very short with no guarantees. Look at an old football lineman whose joints sound like popcorn every morning and tell me you would want that.
 
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grinch

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Quote:

Originally posted by john_jcb
Look at an old football lineman whose joints sound like popcorn every morning and tell me you would want that.


i guess i could just take the barry bonds attitude about it and say "it's not my fault you never learned how to read."


also, i don't see how you can compare art to sports. music, movies, acting, these things are an art form (or at least they used to be). injecting steroids so you can hit a piece of leather with a piece of wood farther doesn't seem all that artistic to me.
 
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john_jcb

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Quote:

Originally posted by grinch


also, i don't see how you can compare art to sports. music, movies, acting, these things are an art form (or at least they used to be). injecting steroids so you can hit a piece of leather with a piece of wood farther doesn't seem all that artistic to me.


I am guessing you are speaking of the "you" as a group. I do not see where I ever intimated that sports and art have much in common. Although I do see many parallals between pop music and sports. Both are all about making money.
 
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Braver

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Quote:

Originally posted by john_jcb
Although I do see many parallals between pop music and sports. Both are all about making money.


music, arts and sports all require sygnificant amounts of skill, and usually a good mix of physical and mental skills, to be really good at it. and it's all entertainment. music and other arts tend to speak to emotions, while I'm not so sure what it is that makes watching a game fun. admiring another's skill I guess.
 
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DanG

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The only profitable "arts" nowadays are totally devoid of any ingenious creativity or real artistic value. Just look at music -- the only genres that make loads of money are rap, hip-hop, pop, and angry teen rock. The best-selling artworks nowadays are blank canvases, and the only films that consistently make huge profits are Hollywood crap.

Does the fact that I think almost all American artistic pop-"culture" is trash nowadays mean I think it should be heavily restricted by the government? No, I don't. But perhaps more central to this issue, it's clear to me that what most Americans call music and film are nothing more than forms of cheap entertainment, barely better than the weekly trash that was pumped out by Hollywood in the first half of the 20th century.

Quote:

Originally posted by grinchi guess i could just take the barry bonds attitude about it and say "it's not my fault you never learned how to read."


I don't see how this applies. But if we're going to go into this debate as well, I'd put it to you that for most issues, that's the correct and democratic attitude according to our founding principles. On the issue of literacy, we decided as a society that it is essential to all people to have the ability to read if they are to have a chance to succeed in society. Are you saying that it is essential that everyone gets as much money as the next guy? That's called communism.
 
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Matthew-Spaltro

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Quote:

Originally posted by grinch
Bonds was asked by The Washington Post whether he felt fans could empathize with players who make an average of $2.4 million. "It's not my fault you don't play baseball," Bonds said empathetically.[/B]



And it's not our fault that if you were not a baseball player you would be pumping my gas you stupid steroid jacked fu#$ing prick.
 
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rickcr42

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man , dumping on the national pastime takes nuggets the size of................

Look at the ticket price to ANY other professional sport and you will see baseball is still a bargain.I can actually afford to take my family of five to a game without wrecking my personal economy.

And do not judge major league baseball by the television portrayal of ,do the "live and in person " thing.You will then realize what really goes on.

How far a dinger REALLY is , the infield/outfield shift for certain batters (or the pitch) , how far it REALLY is to steal a base ,and how fast these guys really are ,the chatter , the "I am on first and just may take second", rattling of the pitcher,watch him make bad pitches or in the dirt when he is worried.

Man ,baseball is beatiful.The rickster loves this game as does his family.All of my sons have been to the stadium by the age of five (tradition , when my dad took me soooo........)

In fact , we just went last friday

YANKEES WIN , YANKEES WIN , THEEEEEEEEEE YANKEES WIN
(sorry Dan G , probably a sox fan
poor you
)
 
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joelongwood

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I'm actually hoping for a strike.......it's the only thing that will stop the DAMN YANKEES!!!!!!!
 
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rickcr42

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only if it lasted for decades

 
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rickcr42

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and btw-I am a serious sports fan (those that can do , those that can not purchase tickets---though I played a mean center field in past years--softball)

Yankees in baseball (theeeee yankees win!)
Giants in football -poor me
Rangers in hockey-poor me
Knickerbockers in basketball-now here is a sport that has deteriorated into a farce.Somehow it became a half court "slow it down " game and a boatload of "on the line".
I have nothing against half court basketball if it is DONE RIGHT !!!!!!
Has no team watched the tapes of the classic Celtics pick and roll of years back ?
Is this a mystery ?
What !
If you are gonna play half court you need to figure out how to score WITHOUT going to the line

Sheesh
 
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grinch

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Quote:

Originally posted by DanG
The only profitable "arts" nowadays are totally devoid of any ingenious creativity or real artistic value. Just look at music -- the only genres that make loads of money are rap, hip-hop, pop, and angry teen rock. The best-selling artworks nowadays are blank canvases, and the only films that consistently make huge profits are Hollywood crap.

Does the fact that I think almost all American artistic pop-"culture" is trash nowadays mean I think it should be heavily restricted by the government? No, I don't. But perhaps more central to this issue, it's clear to me that what most Americans call music and film are nothing more than forms of cheap entertainment, barely better than the weekly trash that was pumped out by Hollywood in the first half of the 20th century.


whether or not you consider these things to be any good, they are an art form. a young boy sitting at a lake during his family's vacation drawing a lake is art. i don't think anybody was out trying to recreate nature, hit a rock with a stick and said "maw! get me some tights, i just became an artist!"

Quote:


I don't see how this applies.


i said that in a rather sarcastic tone with the object of meaning "if you had learned how to read, you wouldn't have had to do something involving 100% physical performance to make a buck." baseball players are basically prostitutes these days, or at least have the mental capacity as such. and of course, this is all not my fault.. :rollseyes:

Quote:

But if we're going to go into this debate as well, I'd put it to you that for most issues, that's the correct and democratic attitude according to our founding principles. On the issue of literacy, we decided as a society that it is essential to all people to have the ability to read if they are to have a chance to succeed in society. Are you saying that it is essential that everyone gets as much money as the next guy? That's called communism.


boy oh boy where do i start. so now i'm a communist because i don't think baseball players should get paid so much. i have never felt baseball players should get paid that much because i don't get paid that much; i just think it's utterly amazingly mindsplittingly dumb. and the people continue to pay happily while morons like barry bonds say stuff like that to them. doesn't anybody else see this as ignorant? doesn't anybody else care that our nation's society is so blatantly ignorant that we get slapped in the face and then pay for it?

everything that makes this much money is always such a ****pile it's unbelievable. movies that all suck but have big budgets, music that sucks complete ass but has a high-paying producer and marketing department behind it, sports figures who are blatantly overpaid but flip out the second somebody wants to take a fraction of their money away. this all happens everyday and everyone pays $10 to see that movie, and pays the scalper $100/seat for their yankees tickets, and downloads that ****ty new britney spears album. 90% of the teams in baseball are just farm teams anyway. they start the season without even a chance of winning and as soon as they get a player who shows some talent, they get some $30 million dollar contract to go play for one of the big teams. but oh man, i love that guy! so i'm going to go out and pay $150 for his jersey, so i can wear HIS name on MY back!

oh well, they're going to have their little strike and everybody is going to be for the players and they won't get taxed and then everybody will be happy to get their teams back. and while everybody else watches the big game, i'll be reading a book. in fact, i think i'll go do that now..
 
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DanG

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Look grinch, I'm not calling you a communist... all I'm saying is that if people are going to pay to see the game, maybe it's not because they approve of how the players act... most of us don't even know or care about that. Those of us who shell out the money to go see a baseball game do it because we want to see the game.

When I was talking about art I didn't say what was art and what wasn't, I said that pop-culture "art" is trash and devoid of artistic value. I think baseball doesn't try to be art but tries to be what it is... like Rick said, it's all about the challenge of the game and these people who can play the game so much better than we can. I'm a shortstop and I'm no Nomah, but I love to see him play (can't say as much about Jeter).

Maybe as a society we should think harder about which pastimes we should really be criticizing. I really don't think it should be baseball when you look at singers like Lauryn Hill who says her music is written exclusively for Blacks and who hopes no white person will buy her music; Eminem, a violent baby who yells about raping and assaulting people; Jane Fonda, an accomplice in the torture and murder of American POWs in North Vietnam; Alec Baldwin, a self-important fool who screams about leaving the country after an election and then denies his own words.

Point is, baseball players are just saying that they're working for their money like everyone else, and just because they earn a lot doesn't mean the government or people have the right to try to take it away from them. Of course, as a conservative, that's what I think in general (even if I myself don't make much money at all
). It's so common nowadays to say that society is so obsessed with money and to say that money is our biggest problem. It simply is not. Stupidity is our biggest problem, and I think artists like Eminem breed far more stupidity than baseball.
 
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acs236

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I'm with you Grinch... I was rooting for the strike. I will root for the upcoming Strike. Bah.. I just don't like baseball. It pre-empts the Simpsons too often.
 
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