[Ahzari]

  I am afraid that this I cannot answer it. Maybe other users here tried both?
 
How differently can different people perceive (even before than judging) the sound.
For me the H8 cabled sound much better with ANC off. With it on I would not say that the dynamics are better, I would rather say the opposite For me the ANC introduces a hiss on high frequencies and boost them a bit, and at same time it is very clear to me that both wired and wireless the ANC decreases the low region (including low mid and partly also mids).
So, with ANC on all sounds a bit brighter but also thinner, colder, less lively, and definitely less punchy. I would not call this "better dynamics".
So, in few words, for me, wired or not, the sound is much better without ANC. And between wired and wireless, for my tastes I prefer wired because it goes a bit deeper and the bass gains not only in quantity but also in quality. Besides to my ears the whole sound, wired, gains in detail.
 
About the distortion, Beagle, I have tested 30 BT Headphones, with that track, and those EQ Settings.
I am VERY sure that the problem is not the track, not the settings, not the source.
Only the H8 did that.
Anyway, if you do not have it, it may be my unit. I will see it myself when I receive the new unit.
But, let me understand, did you or not use the links I gave you?
Because the distortion does not happen on all tracks. The bass must be particularly deep.
Limit to your Love of James Blake is perfect for this test, and in Youtube when you write Limit to your Love the first result is an official video of jamesblakeproductions. Take that one.
Cable the H8, be SURE that the ANC is ON (= the power button must be in the ON position), turn all volume at max (just to be sure, I would turn the volume of the H8 at max with the touch control BEFORE wiring it. Just in case that once wired it remembers the volume of before wiring it).
If you can download that track with something like youtubedownloader or similars, and maybe also the other link I gave you (Balloons Club Mix by Nils Hoffmann), then you can play them with your player with the EQ boosting the low region, from 30 to 150hz, of a few db (I generally boost more the lower freq and less the 150, because most bt headphones do better so).
In my unit the distortion on wireless mode is only present at very max vol and with EQ boosted, while with wired is also at non max (but loud) vol and with EQ flat (like in youtube).
I think that if you do not use those tracks, we cannot be sure that we are putting the H8 under the same frequency stress.
 
Thanks for the comparison.
You forgot to mention that besides not offering a rigid or at least semi rigid carrying case, the H8 have a banal rubber audio cable, not covered with fabric, not equipped with mic or any other controls.
Could you rate particularly the performance on the bass? I am interested in knowing the performance out of the box (no EQ), and then the potential which can be reached with EQ. Quantity, and quality.
But I would invite you to do it (copying and pasting the whole comparison too) in the comparison thread. So it can help other users too.

To be fair, none of the ANC bluetooth headphones I compared except for Beats offer a better cable with mic and controls.. Sennheisers equally priced Momentum wireless offers just a simple cable just like the H8. I agree its silly to not include a better cable, but at least the H8 uses a standard 3.5mm (so a 3rd party one can easily be purchased) whereas the Sennheiser uses a much harder to find 2.5mm.
 
Out of the box the bass on the Momentum Wireless (IMO) was fuller and hit harder than the H8 - I never tried the Momentum wired before returning it so I can't really say if wired it sounded different. 
Momentum was warmer and more neutral than the H8, which i feel has some treble boost (yes more apparent with the ANC on). There is also a more audible hiss from the H8 in comparison to the Momentum, but in turn the noise reduction is slightly better so its a trade off.
 
You have to remember if you're looking at any ANC headphone with a audiophile perspective you will never be happy - all ANC headphones to some degree add background hiss and change audio character, bluetooth 4.0 with APTX has come a long way but is still not as good as a wired headphone. So for what it is I think both the Momentum Wireless and the H8 are excellent headphones, the Momentum sounds better, comes with a proper case, and has better battery life - but the H8 has a much more appealing (subjective) design, uses better materials, has better controls, and is more compact in size and shape (thus more portable). I can see the argument for either one, I chose the H8 because the design / portability was more important for me than pure audio quality for a ANC bluetooth headphone.

 

[Giogio]

 
To be fair, none of the ANC bluetooth headphones I compared except for Beats offer a better cable with mic and controls..

Samsung Level over (the best ANC among BT Headphones) and Plantronics Backbeat Pro (decent ANC plus a wide extra of functions, better bass, and a brighter sound than the Samsung) have both a cable with mic and controls.
The Plantronics offer two versions of that cable, with one being specifically made for Apple devices (the Backbeat Pro also support AAC).
 
Oh, you returned the Momentum.
So, no chance that you have already tested its bass boosting it with EQ to see its real potential?
 
Personally I am absolutely not interested in ANC, I hate it. I do not want to be cut off completely.
And till now all good headphones which I have tried had for me more than enough passive NC.
But I investigate to be able to suggest things to people.
 
I kinf of feel you do not want to come to my thread or is it just a misunderstanding that each time I invite you to post your comparisons there you post them here?

 

[Ahzari]

  Samsung Level over (the best ANC among BT Headphones) and Plantronics Backbeat Pro (decent ANC plus a wide extra of functions, better bass, and a brighter sound than the Samsung) have both a cable with mic and controls.
The Plantronics offer two versions of that cable, with one being specifically made for Apple devices (the Backbeat Pro also support AAC).
 
Oh, you returned the Momentum.
So, no chance that you have already tested its bass boosting it with EQ to see its real potential?
 
Personally I am absolutely not interested in ANC, I hate it. I do not want to be cut off completely.
And till now all good headphones which I have tried had for me more than enough passive NC.
But I investigate to be able to suggest things to people.
 
I kinf of feel you do not want to come to my thread or is it just a misunderstanding that each time I invite you to post your comparisons there you post them here?

Well if you're looking for pure wireless music with no NC.. the Definitive Technology Symphony 1 has gotten some really nice reviews.. I've read better audio than the Momentum Wireless (dynamically and soundstage). They are just really really big for outdoor use. I dont ever EQ my headphones, if they dont do it "right" out of the box its not for me - i try to give audio engineers cred - I would never EQ my Kef LS50s same as I wouldn't EQ the H8 or my previous TH900s (thats just me).
 
Haha sorry, didnt mean to ignore you on the thread thing, PM the link ill post there. 
 
*also in response to your previous comments - in terms of ANC on/off performance - on bluetooth audio is more dynamic with ANC off.. but in wired mode I preferred ANC being on.

 

[Giogio]

Yes, the DefTech are on my list.
Honestly, I am not sure they will please me, because I like the idea of feeling myself in the middle of a concert hall (I have read that comparison of 5 headphones), I am too basshead for those cans.
I really need something which I can boost as much as I want.
I think that unless one is so rich that can buy many headphones for many music genres (and have for each genre two headphones, a big one for home and a small one for walk), the best thing is to have something which out of the box is mostly neutral, but which has got such a good hardware, and wide frequency response, and eventually dsp, that you can boost it and tune it as you wish, according to the music you want to listen to in each moment.
But if you know of ANY headphone which can do well in ANY music, out of the box, no EQ, from Vivaldi to Dubstep, let me know.
At least in the category BIG headphones I would think about buying a wired one IF it has got detachable cable, so that I can bluetothify it with a tiny receiver.
For portable ones, it must be BT.
 
You see, my problem is that I listen to an extremely wide and different kind of music.
 
But honestly, also if you listen only one or few kind of music which can be covered by only one very good headphone, I still do not understand your hate for EQ, considering that you have surely your personal psychoacustic individualities, which makes your ears and your perception of the sound different from anyone else. So, the SAME headphone with the SAME music will sound different to you.
Which means, without EQ, you have to try 100 times more headphones before finding the perfect one for you.

 

[Beagle]

  I am afraid that this I cannot answer it. Maybe other users here tried both?
 
How differently can different people perceive (even before than judging) the sound.
For me the H8 cabled sound much better with ANC off. With it on I would not say that the dynamics are better, I would rather say the opposite For me the ANC introduces a hiss on high frequencies and boost them a bit, and at same time it is very clear to me that both wired and wireless the ANC decr
Because the distortion does not happen on all tracks. The bass must be particularly deep.
Limit to your Love of James Blake is perfect for this test, and in Youtube when you write Limit to your Love the first result is an official video of jamesblakeproductions. Take that one.
Cable the H8, be SURE that the ANC is ON (= the power button must be in the ON position), turn all volume at max (just to be sure, I would turn the volume of the H8 at max with the touch control BEFORE wiring it. Just in case that once wired it remembers the volume of before wiring it).
If you can download that track with something like youtubedownloader or similars, and maybe also the other link I gave you (Balloons Club Mix by Nils Hoffmann), then you can play them with your player with the EQ boosting the low region, from 30 to 150hz, of a few db (I generally boost more the lower freq and less the 150, because most bt headphones do better so).
In my unit the distortion on wireless mode is only present at very max vol and with EQ boosted, while with wired is also at non max (but loud) vol and with EQ flat (like in youtube).
I think that if you do not use those tracks, we cannot be sure that we are putting the H8 under the same frequency stress.eases the low region (including low mid and partly also mids).
So, with ANC on all sounds a bit brighter but also thinner, colder, less lively, and definitely less punchy. I would not call this "better dynamics".
So, in few words, for me, wired or not, the sound is much better without ANC. And between wired and wireless, for my tastes I prefer wired because it goes a bit deeper and the bass gains not only in quantity but also in quality. Besides to my ears the whole sound, wired, gains in detail.
 
Because the distortion does not happen on all tracks. The bass must be particularly deep.
Limit to your Love of James Blake is perfect for this test, and in Youtube when you write Limit to your Love the first result is an official video of jamesblakeproductions. Take that one.
Cable the H8, be SURE that the ANC is ON (= the power button must be in the ON position), turn all volume at max (just to be sure, I would turn the volume of the H8 at max with the touch control BEFORE wiring it. Just in case that once wired it remembers the volume of before wiring it).
If you can download that track with something like youtubedownloader or similars, and maybe also the other link I gave you (Balloons Club Mix by Nils Hoffmann), then you can play them with your player with the EQ boosting the low region, from 30 to 150hz, of a few db (I generally boost more the lower freq and less the 150, because most bt headphones do better so).
In my unit the distortion on wireless mode is only present at very max vol and with EQ boosted, while with wired is also at non max (but loud) vol and with EQ flat (like in youtube).
I think that if you do not use those tracks, we cannot be sure that we are putting the H8 under the same frequency stress.
 
About the distortion, Beagle, I have tested 30 BT Headphones, with that track, and those EQ Settings.
I am VERY sure that the problem is not the track, not the settings, not the source.
Only the H8 did that.
Anyway, if you do not have it, it may be my unit. I will see it myself when I receive the new unit.
But, let me understand, did you or not use the links I gave you?
 
If you can download that track with something like youtubedownloader or similars, and maybe also the other link I gave you (Balloons Club Mix by Nils Hoffmann), then you can play them with your player with the EQ boosting the low region, from 30 to 150hz, of a few db (I generally boost more the lower freq and less the 150, because most bt headphones do better so).
In my unit the distortion on wireless mode is only present at very max vol and with EQ boosted, while with wired is also at non max (but loud) vol and with EQ flat (like in youtube).
I think that if you do not use those tracks, we cannot be sure that we are putting the H8 under the same frequency stress.eases the low region (including low mid and partly also mids).
So, with ANC on all sounds a bit brighter but also thinner, colder, less lively, and definitely less punchy. I would not call this "better dynamics".
So, in few words, for me, wired or not, the sound is much better without ANC. And between wired and wireless, for my tastes I prefer wired because it goes a bit deeper and the bass gains not only in quantity but also in quality. Besides to my ears the whole sound, wired, gains in detail.
 
Thanks for the comparison.
You forgot to mention that besides not offering a rigid or at least semi rigid carrying case, the H8 have a banal rubber audio cable, not covered with fabric, not equipped with mic or any other controls.
Could you rate particularly the performance on the bass? I am interested in knowing the performance out of the box (no EQ), and then the potential which can be reached with EQ. Quantity, and quality.
But I would invite you to do it (copying and pasting the whole comparison too) in the comparison thread. So it can help other users too.

 
Thanks again. So you would say it goes quite deep, only missing the deepest organ pedal notes?

 

[Ahzari]

  Yes, the DefTech are on my list.
Honestly, I am not sure they will please me, because I like the idea of feeling myself in the middle of a concert hall (I have read that comparison of 5 headphones), I am too basshead for those cans.
I really need something which I can boost as much as I want.
I think that unless one is so rich that can buy many headphones for many music genres (and have for each genre two headphones, a big one for home and a small one for walk), the best thing is to have something which out of the box is mostly neutral, but which has got such a good hardware, and wide frequency response, and eventually dsp, that you can boost it and tune it as you wish, according to the music you want to listen to in each moment.
But if you know of ANY headphone which can do well in ANY music, out of the box, no EQ, from Vivaldi to Dubstep, let me know.
At least in the category BIG headphones I would think about buying a wired one IF it has got detachable cable, so that I can bluetothify it with a tiny receiver.
For portable ones, it must be BT.
 
You see, my problem is that I listen to an extremely wide and different kind of music.
 
But honestly, also if you listen only one or few kind of music which can be covered by only one very good headphone, I still do not understand your hate for EQ, considering that you have surely your personal psychoacustic individualities, which makes your ears and your perception of the sound different from anyone else. So, the SAME headphone with the SAME music will sound different to you.
Which means, without EQ, you have to try 100 times more headphones before finding the perfect one for you.

 
 
Only headphone I have owned that has been amazing with every genre was the TH900. But it needs to be amped and its huge so obviously not for outdoor use + the cost with a good amp you're looking at well over 3x the price of the H8. I really can't think of any headphone that does everything well and is portable, maybe the closest thing would be the Ultrasone Signature Pros (the Signature DJ has more bass boom). Bluetooth - I haven't heard anything that has "wow"ed me

 

[Giogio]

   
Thanks again. So you would say it goes quite deep, only missing the deepest organ pedal notes?

Yes.
If you did not had deeper ones you will not notice anyway.
But if you know the UE9000 and the Fidelio M2BT you will notice that here the rumble is less deep and the tone is darker, somehow "closed", I mean, less wide.
And compared with the ATH-WS99BT, not as powerful.
But overall for sure a very good bass.
Among the top 5 in BT. Specially with ANC off. And when wired, as said, even more bass, and detail.
 

   
 
Only headphone I have owned that has been amazing with every genre was the TH900. But it needs to be amped and its huge so obviously not for outdoor use + the cost with a good amp you're looking at well over 3x the price of the H8. I really can't think of any headphone that does everything well and is portable, maybe the closest thing would be the Ultrasone Signature Pros (the Signature DJ has more bass boom). Bluetooth - I haven't heard anything that has "wow"ed me

I have no experience with wired, but three BT Headphones have wowed me, the Fidelio M2BT (mostly because of the bass, even if the overall sound is also for my tastes excellent), the UE9000 (which sounded to me surprisingly similar to the Fidelio but with more warmth, probably due to the rolled off highs, and some more body and detail and soundstage -which is normal, being much bigger), and recently, more than any other, the ATH-WS99BT, which is on a much higher level for detail, the Soundstage is also imo better.
The highs are much better, and are absolutely not sibilant.
The mids are warm and present, out of the box maybe a bit too present, specially the low mids.
The bass is astonishing, more powerful than any other BT headphone, but to be honest with a less warm and deep Sub-Bass than the UE and Fidelio.
The Range is better. The loudness is better, and the general presence of the sound is better. I could hear details and things which I had never hear with other headphones.
It may be that other BT Headphones have similar detail, and for some people a more balanced out of the box sound. But I have never ever listened to any other BT Headphone able to perform so well in all frequencies, quantitatively and qualitatively.
Of course, if you do not eq there is the risk that you will not like the signature out of the box, if you do not like headphones with warm and present mids.
And, no ANC...

 

[timzigs]

  I have no experience with wired, but three BT Headphones have wowed me, the Fidelio M2BT (mostly because of the bass, even if the overall sound is also for my tastes excellent), the UE9000 (which sounded to me surprisingly similar to the Fidelio but with more warmth, probably due to the rolled off highs, and some more body and detail and soundstage -which is normal, being much bigger), and recently, more than any other, the ATH-WS99BT, which is on a much higher level for detail, the Soundstage is also imo better.
 

 
Tried the UE9000, and while all the bass you could ever want is there, anything acoustic sounded especially muffled to me (just no high end at all). And so as not to hi-jack the thread, I'm still loving my H8's. I was told by B&O that the replacement batteries should be available in the US end of March. 

 

[Ahzari]

   
Tried the UE9000, and while all the bass you could ever want is there, anything acoustic sounded especially muffled to me (just no high end at all). And so as not to hi-jack the thread, I'm still loving my H8's. I was told by B&O that the replacement batteries should be available in the US end of March. 

So i dont know if its the shape of my ears or something else, and I think someone else had noted this previously.. but do you notice any thumping when you walk with these headphones and have the ANC on? I feel like its the seal of the earpad breaking during walking and with the ANC on it translates to a loud thump at every step - I've spent a lot more time outdoors walking with these headphones and while the comfort is great and im not noticing much interference with the bluetooth connection the thud thud sound when im walking is getting really annoying/distracting - dont know if this is common to on ear ANC headphones, I've never really experienced anything like this before.

Since im thinking this may have something to do with how the leather pads are sealing the ear, I wonder how the Momentum on ear wireless will fair with their cloth (non-leather) pads.

 

[Giogio]

 
So i dont know if its the shape of my ears or something else, and I think someone else had noted this previously.. but do you notice any thumping when you walk with these headphones and have the ANC on? I feel like its the seal of the earpad breaking during walking and with the ANC on it translates to a loud thump at every step - I've spent a lot more time outdoors walking with these headphones and while the comfort is great and im not noticing much interference with the bluetooth connection the thud thud sound when im walking is getting really annoying/distracting - dont know if this is common to on ear ANC headphones, I've never really experienced anything like this before.

Since im thinking this may have something to do with how the leather pads are sealing the ear, I wonder how the Momentum on ear wireless will fair with their cloth (non-leather) pads.

I was the one (or at least one of the ones) who mentioned it.
Yes. It is very annoying.

 

[Ahzari]

 
I was the one (or at least one of the ones) who mentioned it.
Yes. It is very annoying.

Yea, again today I went out and it really got on my nerves.. turning off ANC helps quite a bit, but then whats the point of paying a premium for that functionality. I preordered the on ear Momentum wireless, Crutchfield has a 60day return period so if the Sennheisers work better I'll likely keep them and return the B&O, prefer the look of the H8 but I'll post an update to the thread you sent me once the Momentums come in and I compare the two (likely late March).

 

[Beagle]

How do these sound compared to the H6. Has anyone heard both?

 

[timzigs]

Originally Posted by Ahzari /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Yea, again today I went out and it really got on my nerves.. turning off ANC helps quite a bit, but then whats the point of paying a premium for that functionality. I preordered the on ear Momentum wireless, Crutchfield has a 60day return period so if the Sennheisers work better I'll likely keep them and return the B&O, prefer the look of the H8 but I'll post an update to the thread you sent me once the Momentums come in and I compare the two (likely late March).

 
I'll be interested to know what you think of the SQ of the M2 on-ear vs. over-the-ear. One thing that bothered me about the latter was that the ear cups did not fold which was a real nuisance when around my neck. Perhaps the smaller cups from the on-ear version will not be such a problem.
 
Regarding the vibration with the H8, yes, I can re-produce this if I step hard on my heels or jump. I have the same issue on my BB Pro's although maybe not quite as pronounced. I found that the vibration can be mitigated by re-adjusting them to the best fit possible. If I press them against my ears, the vibration disappears. Although I realize this is not a practical solution, it does seem to indicate that it's a structural design issue and not the electronics. Regardless, it won't be an problem for me meandering through airports and aircraft cabins.

 

[Ahzari]

   
I'll be interested to know what you think of the SQ of the M2 on-ear vs. over-the-ear. One thing that bothered me about the latter was that the ear cups did not fold which was a real nuisance when around my neck. Perhaps the smaller cups from the on-ear version will not be such a problem.
 
Regarding the vibration with the H8, yes, I can re-produce this if I step hard on my heels or jump. I have the same issue on my BB Pro's although maybe not quite as pronounced. I found that the vibration can be mitigated by re-adjusting them to the best fit possible. If I press them against my ears, the vibration disappears. Although I realize this is not a practical solution, it does seem to indicate that it's a structural design issue and not the electronics. Regardless, it won't be an problem for me meandering through airports and aircraft cabins.

Yea totally agree the over ears were too big to have around the neck (honestly too big in general - thats why i decided it wasn't for me).  Ill post some comments once the on ears come in. I did try fiddling around with it when walking, it would be good for a few steps and start back up.. it might be that I was wearing Toms loafers which have no sole to absorb impact when walking.. ill try my tennis shoes tomorrow and see if there is a improvement.

 

[Giogio]

 
Yea totally agree the over ears were too big to have around the neck (honestly too big in general - thats why i decided it wasn't for me).  Ill post some comments once the on ears come in. I did try fiddling around with it when walking, it would be good for a few steps and start back up.. it might be that I was wearing Toms loafers which have no sole to absorb impact when walking.. ill try my tennis shoes tomorrow and see if there is a improvement.

Do you realize that with a 500 bucks headphone you should NOT have to worry which damn shoe you have to use?
Sorry guys, I do not want to spoil the party to the fans, but, for me these headphones have too many faults to be sold at this price.