[DarthMarth]

I'm currently standing at the cliff of audiophile-dom, preparing to take the plunge. Currently balanced headphones are looking like a pretty good route to take, and not too much more expensive than SE. Being a devotee of Sennheiser, I'm considering getting some balanced HD650s, which I've heard great things about. I have a few questions about the world of balanced gear:

If I'm already spending this much for balanced headphones and an amp, should I upgrade from HR's Sennheiser stock balanced cable? Does it make much of a difference, all other things equal?

I've also heard some talk of 'balanced sources'. What is meant by this?

 

[johnwmclean]

If your source is not balanced you haven’t got a fully balanced system. This is an extremely important factor IMHO, dac’s now come fully balanced.

This is why balanced is very expensive from source through to headphones. Having just the amp and headphones will not yield the best results.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Optimal would be balanced amp connected to balanced DAC or a balanced CDP .

 

[DarthMarth]

I'm thinking of the headroom balanced amp which has a DAC built in. Would this work? Does the source being balanced depend at all on what is going into the DAC?

Or more generally: what does 'source' usually refer to?

 

[scytheavatar]

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f113/b...-worth-324811/

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm thinking of the headroom balanced amp which has a DAC built in. Would this work? Does the source being balanced depend at all on what is going into the DAC?

yes, it would work

no, the digital signal is not inherently balanced or not

note that balanced doesn't have to be expensive at all. heck, you can run a balanced cmoy amp, and balance the stock headphone cable (for Senns, which you are a fan of). Then make a simple inverting circuit for the cmoy, and input a single ended source.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif note that balanced doesn't have to be expensive at all. heck, you can run a balanced cmoy amp, and balance the stock headphone cable (for Senns, which you are a fan of). Then make a simple inverting circuit for the cmoy, and input a single ended source.

Agreed, you can do most things on the cheap if you so wish.

Let you ears be the judge.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd recommend going to a meet and listening to gear before dropping large amounts of money based on opinions here. You may or may not think balanced is worth it after listening to a setup. Or you might be blown away by a particular tube amp. The point is that you're not going to know what you like until you get into the hobby and listen around.

You don't want to buy a bunch of new gear, hear something you like better, then turn around and sell at a loss.

Sometimes, what you read up on and lust after isn't what you really want.

 

[DarthMarth]

That's definitely true. I'm hoping a Twin Cities meet will happen this summer.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd recommend going to a meet and listening to gear before dropping large amounts of money based on opinions here. You may or may not think balanced is worth it after listening to a setup. Or you might be blown away by a particular tube amp. The point is that you're not going to know what you like until you get into the hobby and listen around. You don't want to buy a bunch of new gear, hear something you like better, then turn around and sell at a loss. Sometimes, what you read up on and lust after isn't what you really want.

both excellent and sage advice from uncle erik. if you have a chance, listen to a wide variety of sources, amps, and headphones to get a sense of what you like and don't like. you may find that you can't tell the difference between balanced and single-ended, in which case you will have saved yourself hundreds and possibly thousands of dollars. and if you do like the balanced setup, you can narrow down your choices...plus, it's fun to listen to a wide variety of gear!

 

[Gu Sensei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd recommend going to a meet and listening to gear before dropping large amounts of money based on opinions here. You may or may not think balanced is worth it after listening to a setup. Or you might be blown away by a particular tube amp. The point is that you're not going to know what you like until you get into the hobby and listen around. You don't want to buy a bunch of new gear, hear something you like better, then turn around and sell at a loss. Sometimes, what you read up on and lust after isn't what you really want.

Amen.

I went the balanced route way too quickly and it was not worth it to me. Instead, if you really are interested in the HD650s, maybe start with those and an inexpensive but serviceable amp. Make sure you are into the sound signature first, keep them for a nice long while and get intimately familiar with how your music all sounds, THEN start to look at the upgrade route. There will be much less risk and the benefits of the upgrades will be much more noticeable and appreciated. They are great headphones and many people enjoy them stock, single-ended through inexpensive amps. It also is entirely possible that they may not be your cup of tea and something else is out there that is much more suitable.

Also, for the cost of a very basic balanced rig, you can probably get a pair of HD800s and a decent single-ended amp. In my experience, climbing up the headphones chain provides a much greater bang for the buck than upgrading amps and sources.

Others will disagree and chime in soon, I am sure

. Going balanced with the HD650s may indeed take you to audiophile nirvana as it has for many others, but it is not guaranteed. And, I suspect that most of those who could afford to take the HD650s to the maximum level and adore them are also on the waiting list for the HD800s. You may be able to save yourself a step by heading directly there.

Auditioning, of course, would really be the best way to see for yourself and allow you to make an informed decision based on your experience.

Good luck!

 

[Gu Sensei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif note that balanced doesn't have to be expensive at all. heck, you can run a balanced cmoy amp, and balance the stock headphone cable (for Senns, which you are a fan of). Then make a simple inverting circuit for the cmoy, and input a single ended source.

I hope this does not derail the thread, but I have been curious if there is the opinion that dirt-cheap balanced would be better than single ended at a similar price range?

To keep the thread on track, would you recommend to the OP a cheap balanced rig or higher quality single-ended rig?

 

[JamesL]

Quote:

I hope this does not derail the thread, but I have been curious if there is the opinion that dirt-cheap balanced would be better than single ended at a similar price range?

I think a 3-channel active ground build like the M3 or PPAv2 is a nice medium. It gives most of the benefits of a balanced amp, and it keeps the cost reasonably low, as you don't have to pay for the attenuator, jacks, interconnects, recable, and source.

 

[kugino]

i'd always go with a better SE-setup over a cheapo (not necessarily inexpensive, but cheap in the qualitative sense of the word) balanced setup. i really see no practical benefits to doing, for example, a balanced cmoy setup, other than as a proof-of-concept. it's like one of my early RAID volumes i set up in mac os 10.2 - with 4 zip disks. sure, i could do it, but in the end, why?

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gu Sensei /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, for the cost of a very basic balanced rig, you can probably get a pair of HD800s and a decent single-ended amp. In my experience, climbing up the headphones chain provides a much greater bang for the buck than upgrading amps and sources. Others will disagree and chime in soon, I am sure . Going balanced with the HD650s may indeed take you to audiophile nirvana as it has for many others, but it is not guaranteed. And, I suspect that most of those who could afford to take the HD650s to the maximum level and adore them are also on the waiting list for the HD800s. You may be able to save yourself a step by heading directly there. Auditioning, of course, would really be the best way to see for yourself and allow you to make an informed decision based on your experience. Good luck!

Balanced HD800’s