[heiste]

I have the sennheiser Hd650 and plan on getting the K701. I also plan on going balanced on day. At the moment I run my hd650 straight from my Asus Xonar d2. The sound is decent but I have read all about balance operation and I'm sold. My question is are dacs such as the Lavry DA10 or DAC1 as good as balanced amps like the Little dot mk6's or rudistor NX-33's? I cant afford both the amp and dac at the moment

 

[Deiz]

Tough question. The Xonar is better than onboard sound, but it's not as good as a high-end external DAC.

The thing is, combination DAC/Amps are rare, especially balanced ones. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are the DA10 and Benchmark DAC1, which are both $1,000 and the DAC1's headphone amp isn't stellar.

It's possible to run headphones out of a DAC's line outputs, but you would need to put beefy resistors in the signal path to not blow your headphone drivers out, which is not acoustically ideal.

The cheapest good balanced DAC I know of is the Cambridge DacMagic, and to hit the $400 price point they had to skimp on parts in places, especially the PSU.

However, it's line-output only. Not terribly useful without resistors.

Good balanced amps start at a higher price point, I'd say. Generally, you want to start with a good design, and then of course double the PSU and amplifier sections, consequently doubling the price, as well. In other words, you end up with good offerings starting well into the $1000+ range. Rockhopper has a balanced Mini^3 for sale right now, for $500, but in my opinion it's silly. It's a mobile design doubled and put in a desktop chassis. I'd rather have a single-ended M^3 than a balanced Mini^3 from a sound quality perspective.

Basically: Balanced amp is 50% wasted with a single-ended source. Balanced DAC requires custom, expensive adapters with resistors to not blow your headphones.

One last thing: Commercial balanced cables are all expensive. Paying for exotic materials and hefty markup & labour. On the other hand, there are DIYers who build balanced cables for about $10 in XLRs, $30 for the Cardas Sennheiser connectors, and whatever the actual cable costs.

Edit: Also, I don't like RudiStor. And the Little Dot has two annoying 80mm fans in the bottom, because the chassis is way too small to dissipate all the heat passively.

 

[heiste]

Thanks for your response Deiz. Will the Lavry DA10 or DAC1 power headphones like a Little dot mk6 would?

 

[sachu]

Don't you get both if you go with a BUffalo DAC from twisted Pear..and fairly within your price range i think

 

[compuryan]

Upgrade your source first. The amplifier inside the DAC1 is not that bad. Sure, any $500 or $600 amp will probably sound better, but its really a decent little solid state amp in there. At least good enough to tide you over until you could afford a really good balanced amplifier. I suggest you pick up a DAC1 or DA10 and use the integrated amp until you can afford a really good one.

If you want to get your feet wet in "balanced territory" you can reterminate your headphones to female XLRs and plug them directly into the back of the DAC1.

 

[heiste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't you get both if you go with a BUffalo DAC from twisted Pear..and fairly within your price range i think

I don't know how that holds against the DAC1 or DA10.

 

[heiste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuryan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Upgrade your source first. The amplifier inside the DAC1 is not that bad. Sure, any $500 or $600 amp will probably sound better, but its really a decent little solid state amp in there. At least good enough to tide you over until you could afford a really good balanced amplifier. I suggest you pick up a DAC1 or DA10 and use the integrated amp until you can afford a really good one. If you want to get your feet wet in "balanced territory" you can reterminate your headphones to female XLRs and plug them directly into the back of the DAC1.

I have the hd650. I don't need to reterminate right?

 

[compuryan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiste /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the hd650. I don't need to reterminate right?

Nope, the DAC1 has 1/4" plug inputs on the front. Also I've heard the Buffalo and its good for the price but the DAC1 beats it.

 

[heiste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuryan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nope, the DAC1 has 1/4" plug inputs on the front. Also I've heard the Buffalo and its good for the price but the DAC1 beats it.

So its better for me to use the DAC1 or LA10 with the hd650 instead of a balanced amp? I see you got the B22 and DAC1.

 

[nestacio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiste /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the hd650. I don't need to reterminate right?

You are correct in that the HD650 cables are plug-in connectors, so you don't need hard-wiring to change the cable.

However a balanced HD650 cable ends in male connectors (with pins) while the rear outputs of some balanced equipment (like the DAC1) are also male -- because they are not really intended to drive balanced headphones directly. So you would need a female-female XLR adapter to use these outputs as balanced outputs into your HD650s.

More importantly, as mentioned in the thread, since these balanced rear outputs are not intended to directly power headphones, they have no attenuation/volume control so they require some way to limit the volume because the output signal is 100% strength (and could blow out your headphone drivers).

I agree with Compuryan in that something like the DAC1 is a good intermediate step toward a fully balanced listening chain (balanced from source to headphones) because it can be used both as a single-ended source with the internal headphone amp, and as a balanced source through the rear XLR outputs with a female-female adapter. You can therefore use it while you upgrade the rest of your chain over time.

I never owned the Lavry, but I own both a balanced and single ended HD650s (I have one of each), as well as the DAC1 -- I have since moved on to a different DAC that is balanced as well (I am still weighing the benefits of balanced drive); but I can confirm that the volume control on the DAC1 does in fact control both the headphone amp on the front as well as the balanced outputs on the back, so you would not blow out your drivers since the volume on the DAC1 can be adjusted for single or balanced outputs like you would on any standalone amplifier.

I will also add that the headphone amp on the DAC1 *to my ears* is a good match to the HD650; if I had the DAC1 as a standalone box on my desk I would not miss anything in terms of sonics vs. convenience. The sound is punchy and clean, I think in part because the dac, power supply, and built-in amp have more direct signal paths to one another as opposed to a multiple-component setup. Note that Benchmark sells this amp as a standalone amp so having it combined with the DAC1 is a nice addition; I expect the Lavry to be similar, or better in terms of performance and value.

.

 

[heiste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestacio /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are correct in that the HD650 cables are plug-in connectors, so you don't need hard-wiring to change the cable. However a balanced HD650 cable ends in male connectors (with pins) while the rear outputs of some balanced equipment (like the DAC1) are also male -- because they are not really intended to drive balanced headphones directly. So you would need a female-female XLR adapter to use these outputs as balanced outputs into your HD650s. More importantly, as mentioned in the thread, since these balanced rear outputs are not intended to directly power headphones, they have no attenuation/volume control so they require some way to limit the volume because the output signal is 100% strength (and could blow out your headphone drivers). I agree with Compuryan in that something like the DAC1 is a good intermediate step toward a fully balanced listening chain (balanced from source to headphones) because it can be used both as a single-ended source with the internal headphone amp, and as a balanced source through the rear XLR outputs with a female-female adapter. You can therefore use it while you upgrade the rest of your chain over time. I never owned the Lavry, but I own both a balanced and single ended HD650s (I have one of each), as well as the DAC1 -- I have since moved on to a different DAC that is balanced as well (I am still weighing the benefits of balanced drive); but I can confirm that the volume control on the DAC1 does in fact control both the headphone amp on the front as well as the balanced outputs on the back, so you would not blow out your drivers since the volume on the DAC1 can be adjusted for single or balanced outputs like you would on any standalone amplifier. I will also add that the headphone amp on the DAC1 *to my ears* is a good match to the HD650; if I had the DAC1 as a standalone box on my desk I would not miss anything in terms of sonics vs. convenience. The sound is punchy and clean, I think in part because the dac, power supply, and built-in amp have more direct signal paths to one another as opposed to a multiple-component setup. Note that Benchmark sells this amp as a standalone amp so having it combined with the DAC1 is a nice addition; I expect the Lavry to be similar, or better in terms of performance and value. .

Thanks for the post. So all I need is a female-female adapter? How do I get those? If I buy the balanced cable from headroom, can I get that too?

 

[heiste]

The LA10 doesn't appear to have the volume knob like the DAC1 does. Is that a deal breaker for me?

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiste /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the post. So all I need is a female-female adapter? How do I get those? If I buy the balanced cable from headroom, can I get that too?

Blue Jeans Cable will make you a pair of them for $46.50 plus shipping. Monoprice would be cheaper, but I don't like Monoprice XLRs because they're cheaply constructed and use a silly cable with a cartoonishly huge shield.

If you go with a DIY cable builder, you can get the pricing I mentioned earlier. $30 for Sennheiser connectors, $10 for the XLRs, at most a few dollars for a few feet of cable = $50 in parts, at most. I would recommend finding a DIY builder, because commercial alternatives will run $200+. I would also recommend terminating the cable in dual male XLR, because then you use the female to female XLRs with the DAC1, but can shorten your signal path if/when you buy a balanced amplifier.

Edit: Just saw your newest post. The DAC1 has variable outputs, on the rear panel there is a switch for line-level or variable outputs. The latter being controlled by the front volume knob. The DA10 is a normal DAC, it outputs a line level signal.

To keep costs down, I would go with the DAC1 without USB, as it's $400 cheaper - That is, if you have S/PDIF (Toslink, BNC, or coaxial over RCA) outputs on your computer.

 

[nestacio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heiste /img/forum/go_quote.gif The LA10 doesn't appear to have the volume knob like the DAC1 does. Is that a deal breaker for me?

I think the Lavry has a digital volume control (eg. no knob) but I will let someone who owns a Lavry confirm this.

In terms of adapters, I purchase two 1ft cables with female-female ends from a place that makes cables - I personally like Blue Jeans Cables (which is where I got mine), but you can find a number of cable makers who can do it cheaply.

 

[heiste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestacio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the Lavry has a digital volume control (eg. no knob) but I will let someone who owns a Lavry confirm this. In terms of adapters, I purchase two 1ft cables with female-female ends from a place that makes cables - I personally like Blue Jeans Cables (which is where I got mine), but you can find a number of cable makers who can do it cheaply.

What about Headroom's balanced cable for hd650?