[FrostyMMB]

Alright, so usually I don't rant about things since people always come out of the woodwork to say "shut up and stop complaining," but this is annoying me enough and maybe some people here have had similar experiences.

I put up my Grado RA-1 on eBay; auditioned briefly, looks and functions like it did when first pulled from the box. Flawless and brand new, but as always, one takes a loss reselling an item. Already, I'm losing about $50 off what I paid originally. I can deal with that.

So, I can accept money order or PayPal payment (from PayPal balance or savings/checking account). I am not fond of paying a percentage of all payments to PayPal, so I had downgraded to a free Personal account —something that one can do only once. Anyway, bidder uses 'Buy it Now' and pays with a credit card. No big deal, I decline the payment and immediately contact the buyer about the other payment methods that I can accept.

Two days pass, and the buyer doesn't contact me. I send another email inquiring about the payment problem. Buyer replies, rudely, saying that it is not his payment problem, that he considered his part of the deal complete, and upon reading that his credit card payment had been declined, "made other arrangements" and is "no longer interested in pursuing this deal."

Now I'm thinking, hey, eBay states that a bid a contract, right? That refusing to pay is a serious violation of policy? Since when can someone buy an item on eBay and decide that he is no longer interested? Since when can someone refuse to pay because it's not convenient for him?

I send an email back letting him know that his bid is a contract and that it's against eBay policy to refuse paying for a won auction. I explain my situation on wanting to avoid PayPal fees with the Bussiness account and ask him to please understand my stance on it. I also reminded him of the other stated payment methods that I can accept.

His next response denies the existance of the email that I sent immediately following the decline of his credit card payment, saying that he assumed that it implied no further interest in the transaction. Apparently, he says contacting him before declining would have changed things, yet the time at which I were to decline is irrelevant as I cannot accept it at any time. Then, he states that he is not going to purchase the amp, and that from his viewpoint, the transaction should simply be 'forgotten by both parties.' He also mentioned that 'he will, however, defend himself vigorously if I decide to take this further.'

So, this guy is breaking his bid contract, breaking eBay policy, causing me the hassle of dealing with that, and on top of all this being plain rude about it. Apparently he believes me to be at fault, as if I'm the bad guy. Yet he halts communication and refuses to be at all reasonable or flexible. He wants to just drop the whole thing and get off clean.

If it was that easy, I'd probably let him. However, eBay takes a cut of the selling price of each item, as we are all aware, called the 'Final Value Fee.' I am paying $7.50 to eBay for the sale of the amp. Plus, I need to pay another $3.30 to relist it. The result? I pay $10.80 out of my pocket to let this stubborn individual get off clean and just forget it ever happened.

Yeah right

Perhaps he wouldn't be so hopeful if it was coming from his pocket, and as if I have any interested in just laying down and cutting yet another loss on top of what I'm already taking. I have just contacted the buyer again with a lengthy email stating that I am forced to file the Non-paying Bidder Alert in order to get my final value fee credited back to my account should he decide to break eBay policy. While I have offered him the chance to pay my final value and relisting fee, I don't expect that to happen, so it looks like I'll be going through the hassle to straighten things out.

Sure, some of you might say big deal, it's 11 bucks, stop whining, there are more important things to worry about. Well, pile that on top of what I'm already losing by reselling what I bought new. Plus, when I listed the item, it wasn't my wish to have to deal with problems like this, to spend even more time with this amp still in my hands and even more money out of my pocket. eBay transactions in the past have always gone smoothly.

Anybody have any similar experiences? Any suggestions, advice, encouragement? Maybe the buyer is a member on the board and would like to 'defend himself vigorously?'

 

[Gopher]

theres alot of ******* ebayers out there.

One time I bought a dead BP-EX2 (whatever the batter for D-25s is)which refused to take a charge. I contacted the buyer, he siad no prob send it back and he'd refund me. I send it back--request my refund and he replied "first send the game back! thank you"

He continued to be decietful and evasive for about 2 weeks following the return and when I finally gave him bad feedback and considered it a loss of 30 bucks (20 for bat and 5 shipping both ways) he responds by giving ME bad feedback, calling me a liar and saying "Bidders beware" HE was the SELLER!!!

Bunch of ******** out there... I still have his email address; from time to time I drop him a line wishing death and or castration upon his first born--the usual fun stuff.

Fred


EDIT: I forgot the best part! I checked out the guys feedback and apparantly he'd sold that battery and had it returned to him 2x before me and never refunded the others either!

 

[MikeM]

That situation sucks but the real question you need to answer is "Is it worth it to me to fight this?"

What is your time worth to you? Is its worth the stress and aggrevation that is sure to happen while fighting this?

While no one should automatically give up in the face of being ripped off, when you've thought it through, sometimes its better to eat the $11 and be done with it.

Maybe you could try contacting eBay to see if you can get it resolved quickly. If it starts to drag on, just let it go.

 

[blessingx]

Just out curiosity (couldn't tell from the wording above) did you state explicitly in the ad that you accepted PayPal payment, but only from a balance/bank account? A lot of people (including here), think PayPal, if just stated, includes credit cards transfers. You know... buying before you have the actual cash, etc.?

 

[Hirsch]

After trying the personal Paypal account for a bit, it was too much of a hassle. I'd suggest either not accepting Paypal, or realizing that you're going to pay the extra 3% and living with it (Paypal will often attract more bidders, so it evens out). It is possible to have two Paypal accounts, one personal and one premium, so that you can accept balance transfers on the personal account without fees, and take credit cards on the other. Once you find out how the buyer intends to pay, you give him the correct account to pay to. IMO trying to do this is more trouble than it's worth.

WRT your situation. If your ad simply stated Paypal, you're screwed. If it stated "no credit cards" or "balance transfer only", you're in the right. He's offered a form of payment that you stated you didn't accept, which is not an offer of payment at all. He's still bound to buy your item. If you think it's worth your time, I'd take action on him as a non-paying bidder. Get ready for revenge feedback, though. Sometimes it's not worth the hassle.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally posted by FrostyMMB eBay takes a cut of the selling price of each item, as we are all aware, called the 'Final Value Fee.' I am paying $7.50 to eBay for the sale of the amp. Plus, I need to pay another $3.30 to relist it. The result? I pay $10.80 out of my pocket

Frosty,

I am sorry to learn what happened to you. Yes, there are some ******** from the real world who enter on ebay as well

Anyway, if I were you I would just notify ebay that the transaction has not taken place because the buyer did not send the payment and that would be all. ebay will refund you $7.50 and you will lose only $3.30. Yes, $3.30 too much, but you can't do anything about them.

I once have sent by a bank money transfer about $90 to a seller who claimed he never received it. Of course I had plenty of proof that he did, but i could do nothing except filling up complaints and sending them to ebay by snail mail (as if email did not exist), then asking ebay every month what the hell happens with my complaint... anyway I have been finally reimbursed about $55 (the rest was taken by ebay as fees for their effort

)... and all this took 8 months!!!

So, Frosty, a risk exists when dealing on ebay - just because of those morons wandering around

BTW, I would not leave negative feedback because it is almost sure that you will get one as well and this would affect your future sales. You know, there are people who are too lazy to dig a bit to check who was the bad guy in such a situation; they simply do not bid (or bid lower) for a seller with negative feedbacks. Stupid but true.

As a conclusion: it simply sucks.

 

[OriginalReaper]

Once I sold a Gamecube, games, and controllers for something like $250+. The winning bidder had a feedback of -4 (yes, negative four.) I didn't bother emailing him. I just followed ebay's instructions and re-listed the item. I didn't have to pay ebay's ~$9 comission.

I think it's just a BS username that he made up to squash competing auctions. It's rotten, but why else would someone have -4 feedback?

 

[Sol_Zhen]

Frosty,
Like Blessingsx said, did you spell out the payment conditions in the auction?

Also, you probably shouldn't have enabled the automatic Buy-it-now option on an auction where you wanted to control the PayPal transaction in the fashion you described. In a traditional auction, you would have had the ability to contact the buyer before payment.

 

[eyevancsu]

This has happened to me various times as well. One thing i do for slight protection is to use "email receipts" that come back to you if the person you send the email to opens the email. Like this, if the other party says he didnt receive/open/get the email, you will have some proof of his guilt. Though this wont solve this current problem, this can be a way of SLIGHTLY protecting yourself for further and future transactions.

Ivan C.

 

[mbriant]

As has been stated a couple of times already, if your ad said you accept PayPal, and you don't, effectively, you are the one breaking the contract. If he didn't have the cash and paying by credit card was the only way he could purchase your item, he had no option but to back out of the deal.

 

[FrostyMMB]

Thanks for the replies.

To those that asked about whether I had specifically stated that I didn't accept credit cards, here's a brief explanation. Previously, when I had the business account, I noted in all of my payment information that I accepted "credit card payment through PayPal." Once I downgraded, I made sure to remove this statement. Unfortunately, I overlooked that most people may assume that PayPal automatically includes credit card payments, and I forgot to add in that I can longer accept them at all. Plus, the PayPal image on eBay includes credit card images. So, I admit that I did not specifically note that I don't accept credit cards, and if any fault lies on me, it would simply be for overlooking this.

However, by notifying the buyer immediately, I believe that I did my part to take responsibilty for my folly (I was actually checking my email within the five minutes it took for me to be notified of the end of the auction, and then later to be notified of payment). I explained that my personal account doesn't allow me to accept credit cards, that I don't plan to upgrade definitively, and that I have other methods to accept payment. I would imagine most people would be reasonable and use another method, rather than being stubborn and inflexible, refusing to pay at all.

In any case, I now have it specifically stated that I do not accept credit cards. I personally don't see it as too much of an inconvenience to transfer from a savings or checking account when paying with PayPal, but I understand those who do, especially when using buy it now. I just don't like cutting an even larger loss on things I am reselling just to accept credit cards.

I have just received an email from the bidder, and he is willing to reimburse me for the final value fee and relisting fee (m/o or bank transfer). It appears that I may be spared the time to file the non-paying bidder alert and such, but only when I have the $10.80 back will I know for sure. Neither of us plan to leave feedback and we both will leave it in the past once it has been done. Hopefully it'll work out this way.

 

[Rizumu]

I know what you're looking for in making this thread is "boy that guy's a jerk", not that he isn't, but it's always pissed me off whenever a seller has neglected to state that they don't accept paypal cc payments and then they pull that after the auction ends. Of course I use another method of payment and I wouldn't just refuse to pay for the item (especially if I wanted it), but it's not something I like doing.

Get two accounts, one that accepts credit card payments and another that doesn't. Or just flat out state you don't accept Paypal credit card payments in your auction. Then it's the bidder's fault if they don't read the auction thoroughly. You've learned from your mistake which was accidental and you're being reasonable about it. eBay's a learning experience. There are bumps in the road along the way. This guy's just one of them.

Better luck next time.

 

[dhwilkin]

Yeah, sounds like this was just bad communication on both sides. It was reasonable for him to expect the average PayPal account to accept cc payments, but it was also reasonable for you to quickly notify him w/ other common, alternate ways of payment. Just be more specific next time.

 

[strohmie]

In my 200 or so eBay transactions, I've been lucky enough to only have this problem once. I sold a copy of the SNES game Chrono Trigger for about $110 back in the day, shipped out the package as required, and thought the transaction was complete.

Unfortunately, the guy e-mailed back and said he didn't get the game, and demanded a refund. I simply said "give me your address and I'll check to see if the package arrived...and if not, refund you the $100 through the USPS insurance I put on the package."

He replied by simply saying "no, that's too much of a hassle. Don't worry about it." Of course, the guy did get the package (I requested the address again as a test, I already had it), and was trying to get his $100+ back.

Jackass.

 

[Hirsch]

He shouldn't be offended by an honest mistake. However, there was an unstated condition to the sale.

Once you rejected his payment, he was correct that a contract to sell no longer existed. You had stated Paypal payment, he made payment, and got it sent right back at him. He's done what he said he would do when he won the auction, made prompt payment via a method you said you would accept, and is off the hook with no further obligation to you. The mistake was yours. He's actually being very generous in offering to send any fee reimbursement to you at all. Sounds like a nice guy. It would be a good gesture on your part to turn down the reimbursement. It's not his fault the situation went sour.

If your ad stated that you accept Paypal with no qualifications, he is not a non-paying bidder.