[Bunnyears]

Any of the Gardiner releases on his own label (not DG) or for the season or any season for that matter, René Jacobs Christmas Oratorio recording is absolutely a Bach must for anyone who loves the composer. Glorious sound, glorious performances and just one of the most splendid Bach recordings I've heard recently. Btw, I think prices for that are lower at amazon.uk. Prices listed in pounds, but they include vat which is deducted so the price with delivery usually comes out in dollars as very close to the price listed (undelivered) in pounds.

 

[zumaro]

The Gardiner issues are indeed of very high quality, so no problems there about any of the volumes so far.

Another recommendation would be for any of the Herreweghe cantatas - maybe the very cheap boxed set available through Virgin which includes the short masses as well as the Virgin cantata disks. Advantage of this series is that Herreweghe is picking out the best cantatas, rather than just recording all of those associated with a particular Sunday in the church year, which inevitably can lead to some less than stellar music along with that of the highest quality.

If you mean what cantatas to start with then that opens a brand new area of discussion for this thread! There are those that have always been "popular" (as far as this music can ever be said to be that) such as BWV 80, 140, 147, 51, and they are all of the highest standard. I have a particular liking of 161 and 170 but that is maybe because they are the first I ever heard!

What about just going for music of the season, which would lead you to the Christmas Oratorio (the Jacobs version is very good as Bunnyears suggests) or maybe the Koopman boxed set of Christmas cantatas taken from his ongoing complete set and available at a cheaper price. There is also the Herreweghe set of Advent cantatas 61, 62 and 36, and the excellent double CD of the Leipzig 1723 and 1724 music for Christmas Day and the day after Christmas (91, 121, 133, 63 and the Magnificat).

 

[Bunnyears]

Zumaro,

I like the Herreweghe Advent set better than the Koopman which tend to get a bit dry. Ofcourse, Herreweghe's cantatas have been described by some as "schmaltzy," so I guess you really have to know what you like.

How is the sound quality on the Virgin Herreweghe? Is it as good as the HM releases? I have found that some of their boxed sets are reissues of recordings that were not made with great technology, and sound quality is an issue.

 

[zumaro]

Agree about Koopman - and the singing is variable at times, but not enough for me to not enjoy it overall. But the set isn't as good as Herreweghe, although it might be cheaper!

I think the sound of the Virgin disks is fine - they seem well focused and natural to me, and set in a good acoustic.

Another cantata which I just thought of as being an excellent starting point would be the early BWV21. That one gets recorded often as well, and rightly so.

 

[Bunnyears]

Agree about BWV 21, my personal favorite and the one that got me started in Cantatas.

 

[zumaro]

There is a good version of BWV21 with Kuijken and La Petite Band out on Virgin, coupled with the Magnificat. That one remains my favourite, even with competition from Herreweghe et al.

 

[zumaro]

Just picked up a fine new Herreweghe release of a couple of secular cantatas. BWV 214 Tönet ihr Pauken (one of those cantatas that ends up recycled in the Christmas Oratorio) receives a very alert performance, and even better is BWV 207 - Vereinigte Zwietracht der wechselnden Saiten with its parody of the first Brandenburg Concerto opening chorus. The recording has real impact - very transparent and detailed, and for once Herreweghe sounds appropriately vigorous and joyous - none of his usual soft focus approach in this recording. One of the best cantata recordings I have heard for a while.

 

[Lerman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears Bach to Cantatas (pun intended)! Finally had a chance to listen to the René Jacobs recording of the Weinachtsoratorio, and first impression is incredibly favorable. I don't know how Jacobs is doing it, but he's batting 1000 this year with me. I ofcourse refer to his masterly Mozart Le Nozze as well as this recording. It's really terrific. Thanks to all who recommended it!

Jacobs' Le Nozze is just fantastic and is enough to give me faith in anything he does, though I don't believe I have him directing (or singing) any Bach.

The cantatas have been recorded by so many people (in quite a few different ways) that I don't think I'd ever seek out any one person's complete set. There are just so many good recordings from such diverse groups. One I particularly love is Andreas Scholl singing the cantatas for Alto (BWV 170, 54, 35) on I think Harmonia Mundi--it's a one of Herreweghe's.

I also love 'Ich Habe Genug' as sung by David Thomas (led by Taverner). (I also have the much-ballyhooed Lorraine Hunt Leiberson singing the same and I think she should stick to Handel. But that's just me.) Emma Kirkby also sings the Wedding Cantata on that one. Quite well. And you could easily have a ball just chasing your favorite soloists around from series to series and disc to disc.

I'm also liking a disc I picked up on a whim last year--the Purcell Quartet singing BWV 4, 106, 131, 196--disc called Bach Early Cantatas (Volume 1). Once again Emma Kirkby, sounding as good as she ever has, and Michael Chance counter-tenor. Beautiful, simple, staid performance.

So that's why I haven't gravitated to any one complete cycle--too many gems out there and me with not enough money to have it all.

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumaro Just picked up a fine new Herreweghe release of a couple of secular cantatas. BWV 214 Tönet ihr Pauken (one of those cantatas that ends up recycled in the Christmas Oratorio) receives a very alert performance, and even better is BWV 207 - Vereinigte Zwietracht der wechselnden Saiten with its parody of the first Brandenburg Concerto opening chorus. The recording has real impact - very transparent and detailed, and for once Herreweghe sounds appropriately vigorous and joyous - none of his usual soft focus approach in this recording. One of the best cantata recordings I have heard for a while.

I'll check this one out: I have been on a Herreweghe binge of late, starting with some of his Bach cantatas, passions (although I haven't heard either of his Matthaus passions yet) and masses. Good stuff: SDG Gardiner is technically superior (in particular I think Collegium Vocale is no match for the Monteverdi Choir), but Herreweghe reading often make up for this. If I can thread-crap a bit, I would say that Herreweghe is even better when it comes to Mozart: both his Requiem and his Mass in C minor are lively, moving and wonderfully sung recordings (Ian Bostridge in "Tuba Mirum" is a very reliable goosebumps-generator).

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calaf If I can thread-crap a bit, I would say that Herreweghe is even better when it comes to Mozart: both his Requiem and his Mass in C minor are lively, moving and wonderfully sung recordings (Ian Bostridge in "Tuba Mirum" is a very reliable goosebumps-generator).

Well, Ian Bostridge is a reliable goosebumps generator wherever he sings - I guess the timbre of his voice simply gives me creeps... And I respond to Andreas Scholl more and more similarly, it seems. The two of them pretty much make Herreweghe's 2nd St. Matthew unlistenable to me - but I will keep the set for the bonus CD-Rom.

 

[zumaro]

Herreweghe's crew on the rare good day can equal the Monteverdi Choir, and this release is them on a very good day - the whole performance is radiating energy. I too like Herreweghe's approach to this music - I think it is only marginally "authentic", but the softer more spiritual side of Bach is usually well conveyed. Which makes this release even more special, as usually Herreweghe does not shine as bright in the more vigorous cantatas.

While I also used to greatly dislike Gardiner's performances, I have to say his latest cycle is very fine indeed. He seems to have learnt how to relax, and while his singers and instrumentalists retain their customary high standards, they are now given time to breath and actually interpret the music. So while I find his earlier recordings of the Mass in B minor and Christmas Oratorio hard and unyielding, now I would be very interested to hear him rerecord them.

As for cycles, I have all the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt series for better or worse (its fine as a reference to get to know the music, but seldom the last word in interpretation), but haven't settled into collecting any particular new series. For a while Suzuki was winning, and I was holding off buying too many of the disks, waiting for the inevitable bargain priced box set (anyone at BIS reading this?), but now Gardiner is starting to look like a real contender and I may actually subscribe to his releases.

 

[Bunnyears]

When I first started listening to Bach's cantatas, the Richter was the last word. I started with those and I guess they are still sentimental favorites although they are not historically correct. Now I collect as many individual recordings as I can find that have something new to contribute. Despite my movement away from cycles, Gardiner's new work is just so good and so consistant that I did subscribe to them. I guess I thought it would be easier to buy them one at a time at the "special" subscriber price rather than wait and pick them up in dribs and drabs as they became available. I certainly don't regret this as it hasn't kept me from acquiring other efforts as well. One recording that I have found to be incredibly good is the Thomas Quasthoff cantatas for bass (Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56; Der Friede sei mit dir, BWV 158; Ich habe genug, BWV 82). It's available both in stereo and SACD/hybrid. Get the SACD if you have the equipment as the sound is richer than the stereo. The Cantatas feature the Berlin Baroque Soloists and Berlin RIAS Chamber Chorus, so it's also correct to period. Hard to believe, but I like this recording even more than my old favorite Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Karl Richter versions of these cantatas.

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears One recording that I have found to be incredibly good is the Thomas Quasthoff cantatas for bass (Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56; Der Friede sei mit dir, BWV 158; Ich habe genug, BWV 82)

I have learned to trust Frau Bunnyears: I had Herr Quasthoff in my yourmusic queue already, now he shot to the top

Concerning the new Gardiner, I am also a subscriber, and with the exception of the last installment SDG118

which is, shall we say, less than involving, I find the new cycle a real thrill to listen to. Silly as it may be, the idea that these guys dished out 50+ recordings (and concerts) in one year with only two takes available for each cantata, projects an aura of adventure on the music...

 

[Hell_Gopher]

The Gardiner cycle is absolutely superb! Jaunty Gardiner Bach at its best. Some of the soloists are great (Mark Padmore), some a little less so, but overall the quality is really consistent. Also, the fact that he's making money off these things is a major kick in the teeth to DG, and shows how successful a small classical label can be.

Even with the subscriber price though, I dread to think how much the whole thing is going to cost

 

[calaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell_Gopher Even with the subscriber price though, I dread to think how much the whole thing is going to cost

less than a good headamp