Bach: Keyboard Works

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I want just one more mouthful.

So it seems like you are really charmed by the concertos then! I agree they make some truly exciting listening if the performer is "on." Too bad Pierre Hantai has so far made only one concerto disc (with his own band the French Concert, BWV1052, 1056, 1044 plus 2 selections from WTC2) or he would get a top recommendation from me also.

I think sound quality is very important in Bach harpsichord music recordings (or it would be painful just to listen to them), and often the choice of instrument also has a lot to do with it. I prefer non-clangrous harpsichords recorded with a bit ambience around them, and this is what I got when I recently came across the BNL (a French house label) recording of Marek Toporowski play some Bach gems on a John Phillips instrument. It even includes two versions of the Chromatic Fantasia (one being an early version of this improvisory masterpiece) and cool things such as Bach's very early work Capriccio composed for the departure of his beloved brother (or a dear childhood friend), BWV 992:



Be sure to grab it if you happen to find it cheap eg. in ebay online auctions. It has some of the best recorded harpsichord sound in my entire Bach collection. But then I am partial to silvery, bell-like kind of harpsichord sound and this recording offers it in plenty. Another great Bach keyboard music recording I know that also makes use of a John Phillips instrument is Davitt Moroney's complete Well-tempered Claiver on Harmonia mundi. Again I find myself in love with the gorgeous sound, listening to the 4 cds over and over again.





I have the original release but the picture above is its reissue along with the Art of Fugue and Musical Offering in the Bach Anniversary series. They all use the same instrument, but I find the WTC has the most beautiful sound. It doesn't hurt that, Moroney, a specialist of Louis Couperin and William Byrd, plays Bach's counterpoint most flowingly, in long, subtlely turned lines, which I find refreshing after listening to other more incisive recordings.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just an update my dear friends to say that after an afternoon listening to some 14 discs my jaw is aching (bit off more than I could chew) and there is a lot of digestion ahead. I want just one more mouthful.

From the Brandenburgs to the harpsichord concerti, to the next course...

You have started with the soup and and appetizers and have yet to hit the main course of Cantatas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right. I have about 3/4 of the Rousset and the whole Olivier Baumont set. At over 130 euros for either half of the 12-disc set (and rare availablity to boot), I don't think I will have the Scott Ross complete Coueprin in my possession anytime soon, either. Hélas! IMO the best Bach playing done by Scott Ross is found in his WTC, 1985 Goldberg and Parititas, even though I agree with you that the Italian concerto and misc. disc is quite fine as well, if not on the same same level of concentration and intensity. One interesting aspect about that recording is that some bird is heard chirpping away merrily in betwen movements on that recording! Must be a really serene and quiet morning when it was made.

I've got my eyes open for a set of the Ross Couperin in case it ever comes my way. Unfortunately, when it was issued, HIP and French Baroque were not very important in the NY scene so many of these things didn't have a wide release here. That, unfortunately, means that they don't show up in the used cd stores I frequent.

Meanwhile, I've seen the Baumont available for very little and would love to hear how you think of them. Are they worth acquiring as I already have the Rousset? I would hate to get something that is not as fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it seems like you are really charmed by the concertos then! I agree they make some truly exciting listening if the performer is "on." Too bad Pierre Hantai has so far made only one concerto disc (with his own band the French Concert, BWV1052, 1056, 1044 plus 2 selections from WTC2) or he would get a top recommendation from me also. I think sound quality is very important in Bach harpsichord music recordings (or it would be painful just to listen to them), and often the choice of instrument also has a lot to do with it. I prefer non-clangrous harpsichords recorded with a bit ambience around them, and this is what I got when I recently came across the BNL (a French house label) recording of Marek Toporowski play some Bach gems on a John Phillips instrument. It even includes two versions of the Chromatic Fantasia (one being an early version of this improvisory masterpiece) and cool things such as Bach's very early work Capriccio composed for the departure of his beloved brother (or a dear childhood friend), BWV 992: Be sure to grab it if you happen to find it cheap eg. in ebay online auctions. It has some of the best recorded harpsichord sound in my entire Bach collection. But then I am partial to silvery, bell-like kind of harpsichord sound and this recording offers it in plenty. Another great Bach keyboard music recording I know that also makes use of a John Phillips instrument is Davitt Moroney's complete Well-tempered Claiver on Harmonia mundi. Again I find myself in love with the gorgeous sound, listening to the 4 cds over and over again. I have the original release but the picture above is its reissue along with the Art of Fugue and Musical Offering in the Bach Anniversary series. They all use the same instrument, but I find the WTC has the most beautiful sound. It doesn't hurt that, Moroney, a specialist of Louis Couperin and William Byrd, plays Bach's counterpoint most flowingly, in long, subtlely turned lines, which I find refreshing after listening to other more incisive recordings.

I don't know how you come to know of these little gems, but I will certainly be on the lookout for them.

Hopefully they aren't being sold at break the bank prices.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Meanwhile, I've seen the Baumont available for very little and would love to hear how you think of them. Are they worth acquiring as I already have the Rousset? I would hate to get something that is not as fine.

Baumont is very different from Rousset in Couperin. He uses on average two different instruments in each livre, but they all have the kind of sound I like, and recorded less resonantly than the Rousset (with the possible exception of book i, which I don't have). Richard Bernas at rmcr thinks Ross is the best, Rousset interpretatively on a par with Baumont but technically superior. Todd McComb at medieval.org (who often has very insightful things to say about early music) made the following comment on the Baumont: "I like it... very articulate and intelligently phrased. It's very arpeggio oriented, as it should be, but perhaps not to everyone's taste." What he said makes sense since harpsichord music in France at the end of 17th century was still very much influenced by lute music, in the so-called "style brisé." If the Baumont can be had inexpensively, I think it may be well worth a try.

Quote:

Hopefully they aren't being sold at break the bank prices.

What is often sold at break the bank prices are the complete sets of JSB's music for organ, and so far the thread has not even begun to cover that genre yet.

 

[Bunnyears]

Apparently Warner Classics has a new box set of Baumont's Couperin about to be released that will be available for around £34 on the Amazon website in a few days. It's certainly something I will be looking out for.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apparently Warner Classics has a new box set of Baumont's Couperin about to be released that will be available for around £34 on the Amazon website in a few days. It's certainly something I will be looking out for.

Bingo. There was even a preview copy for auction at the UK ebay site and sold eventually for a bit under £20. I let it go partly because I already have the jewel-case version at home, collected over the years from sources such as berkshire. Well if this compact version should also turn up at berkshire, then it is going to be REALLY affordable.

 

[adhoc]

Hello all, it's been a looong time since I posted on Head-Fi, but I thought I'd let everyone know that I recently went on a massive Bach binge and picked up the following within a couple of hours:

1. 4 Suites for Orchestra, Richter (Archiv vinyl)
2. Achzehn Coräle, Walcha (Archiv vinyl)
3. Art of Fugue, Walcha (Archiv vinyl)
4. Brandenburg Concertos 1-6, Harnoncourt (Telefunken vinyl)
5. Das Wohltemperierte Clavier 1Teil, Kirkpatrick (Archiv vinyl)
6. The Well Tempered Clavier books1&2, Tureck (DGG 4CD)
7. Goldberg Variations, Kirkpatrick (Archiv vinyl)
8. Präludien und Fugen, Walcha (Archiv vinyl)
9. Tocaten und Fugen, Walcha (Archiv vinyl)
10. Messe in H-moll, Richter (Archiv vinyl)
11. Mass in B-minor, Gardiner (DGG 3CD)

FWIW, IMO my classical collection was starting to get a little heavy on the Classical/Romantic side (Beethoven/Mahler/Mozart/Schumann/Tchaikovsky), so this would be a step in the direction of building a "balanced" collection.

Now if only I could appreciate "Modern" classical music!

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now if only I could appreciate "Modern" classical music! [/i]

I'm lucky. Our local library has a huge classical collection. I'm able to listen to modern music before buying. It really helps. I've heard some that I've rushed out and bought and some that is totally unlistenable.

Back on topic, they also have the entire Edition Bachakademie. I especially like the WTC performed by Robert Levin on harpsichord, clavichord, and organ.

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm lucky. Our local library has a huge classical collection. I'm able to listen to modern music before buying. It really helps. I've heard some that I've rushed out and bought and some that is totally unlistenable. Back on topic, they also have the entire Edition Bachakademie. I especially like the WTC performed by Robert Levin on harpsichord, clavichord, and organ.

Wow - my local library is amazingly deficient in baroque music, but literally overflowing with Berlioz, Bartok, Brahms and Stravinsky. There is a good chunk of the Arturo Toscanini collection available (gold seal RCA releases), but the classical section there consists mostly of compilation albums.

Which is how I arrived at my conclusion about me and more "modern" (read:dissonant) music.


EDIT: so are Rousset's English and French suites still the 'forum approved' version?

I couldn't find anyplace to preview the French suites, but previews for the English suite were up on Amazon UK. The tempi are a little... fast for *dance* music, no?

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think sound quality is very important in Bach harpsichord music recordings (or it would be painful just to listen to them), and often the choice of instrument also has a lot to do with it. I prefer non-clangrous harpsichords recorded with a bit ambience around them, Be sure to grab it if you happen to find it cheap eg. in ebay online auctions. But then I am partial to silvery, bell-like kind of harpsichord sound and this recording offers it in plenty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif From the Brandenburgs to the harpsichord concerti, to the next course... You have started with the soup and and appetizers and have yet to hit the main course of Cantatas.

Who knows how I'll feel later but now I don't enjoy the notes with abrupt audible endings and much prefer gradual decay. I've also found I like Tevor Pinnock more than Lars Ulrik Mortensen or Bob van Asperen (as heard in some compilations I have). Although Mortensen would be one of the harpsichordist playing with Pinnock at times in The English Concert, differentiation is beyond me. As for general direction I prefer Pinnock's Bach which is more overt, extroverted, more rock 'n roll (and speaking of rock 'n roll, now I know where those pyrotechnically inclined electric guitarists like Eddie Van Halen got their ideas-BVW 1052!

). Virtues are more naked. Even for sonics the Mortensens are better in a hifi way but not that much better. I'm adopting Pinnock as my standard for now and will get his remaning Bach works Brandenburg, Goldberg, Partitas, etc. Regarding the Cantatas, I can't go anywhere near them as they make go all Linda Blair on a sour soul day!

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who knows how I'll feel later but now I don't enjoy the notes with abrupt audible endings and much prefer gradual decay. I've also found I like Tevor Pinnock more than Lars Ulrik Mortensen or Bob van Asperen (as heard in some compilations I have). Although Mortensen would be one of the harpsichordist playing with Pinnock at times in The English Concert, differentiation is beyond me. As for general direction I prefer Pinnock's Bach which is more overt, extroverted, more rock 'n roll (and speaking of rock 'n roll, now I know where those pyrotechnically inclined electric guitarists like Eddie Van Halen got their ideas-BVW 1052! ). Virtues are more naked. Even for sonics the Mortensens are better in a hifi way but not that much better. I'm adopting Pinnock as my standard for now and will get his remaning Bach works Brandenburg, Goldberg, Partitas, etc. Regarding the Cantatas, I can't go anywhere near them as they make go all Linda Blair on a sour soul day!

I like Pinnock's Brandenburgs very much, and if you get the right set, they also come with the 4 Overtures (Orchestral Suites). They are historically informed performance, but more middle of the road than the Akademie für alte Musik Berlin (aka AAMB) or I Barocchisti. Eventually you may or may not wish for a new take on these works. That's usually what happens, which is why classical music lovers end up with multiple recordings of the same works. Each "cover" shows something different in the music.

If you like gradual decay, then you really will prefer the wetter accoustic. That means you probably won't care that much for Pinnock's Goldbergs as they are a fairly dry recording. Try, if you can, to sample Pierre Hantaï's first recording of the Goldberg Variations. That is particularly extroverted and upbeat and he plays a wonderful sounding instrument.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow - my local library is amazingly deficient in baroque music, but literally overflowing with Berlioz, Bartok, Brahms and Stravinsky. There is a good chunk of the Arturo Toscanini collection available (gold seal RCA releases), but the classical section there consists mostly of compilation albums. Which is how I arrived at my conclusion about me and more "modern" (read:dissonant) music. EDIT: so are Rousset's English and French suites still the 'forum approved' version? I couldn't find anyplace to preview the French suites, but previews for the English suite were up on Amazon UK. The tempi are a little... fast for *dance* music, no?

I don't know about the rest of the forum, but I haven't found any recordings of the French and English Suites I prefer to those of Christophe Rousset. I also have the Alan Curtis recordings Blandine Rannou has recordings of these works (Zig-zag Territoires) that I am interested in, but I haven't decided whether I will get them yet. Masolino will probably have more knowledge of the other great recordings of these works.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who knows how I'll feel later but now I don't enjoy the notes with abrupt audible endings and much prefer gradual decay. I've also found I like Tevor Pinnock more than Lars Ulrik Mortensen or Bob van Asperen (as heard in some compilations I have). Although Mortensen would be one of the harpsichordist playing with Pinnock at times in The English Concert, differentiation is beyond me. As for general direction I prefer Pinnock's Bach which is more overt, extroverted, more rock 'n roll (and speaking of rock 'n roll, now I know where those pyrotechnically inclined electric guitarists like Eddie Van Halen got their ideas-BVW 1052! ). Virtues are more naked. Even for sonics the Mortensens are better in a hifi way but not that much better. I'm adopting Pinnock as my standard for now and will get his remaning Bach works Brandenburg, Goldberg, Partitas, etc. Regarding the Cantatas, I can't go anywhere near them as they make go all Linda Blair on a sour soul day!

Strange I never find Trevor Pinnock's Bach (at least in its pre-2000 phase) to be that extroverted or overt compared to pretty much everything else Bunnyears quoted above, from AAM Berlin, I Barocchisti etc. Nowadays I revisit Pinnock only when I want a break from more rigorous or "rugged" Bach performances, for something sane and smooth. Is that what rock 'n roll sounds like? Hmm. Maybe my conception of rock is more radical than it actually is, since I have little exposure to that genre. I have heard people who compare the Goebel Brandenburgs to Bach in "heavy metal" style. They may well hear rock 'n roll in Pinnock! What do I know indeed.

I remember the Pinnock Bach Hpd Concertos and Brandenburg as being better recorded (if BWV1052 a bit over-reverbrant) than his solo discs (or the AAD Orchestral Suites) on DG Archiv. So you might want to consider his Hanssler recordings instead if you are to explore his performancs of Bach solo music.

 

[Masolino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about the rest of the forum, but I haven't found any recordings of the French and English Suites I prefer to those of Christophe Rousset. I also have the Alan Curtis recordings Blandine Rannou has recordings of these works (Zig-zag Territoires) that I am interested in, but I haven't decided whether I will get them yet. Masolino will probably have more knowledge of the other great recordings of these works.

Alan Curtis has the disadvantage of a somewhat gray sound if the Hamburg Zell instrument is actually fantastic (I have heard other more recent recordings on it). Blandine Rannou plays with a beat which seems free and fluid to me but may strike other listeners as being too unstable. The sound is excellent for my taste. I never bought the Rousset because the sets are kind of expensive in Taiwan. I figure the Rannou is cute enough anyway for me in this music, which is definitely "lite" fare compared to stuff like WTC, Partitas or preludes and fugues for organ.

 

[scompton]

I just bought the 2 Igor Kipnis Partitas CDs, $6.99 each special ordered at Borders. I one of them out of the library a few years ago and like them. I was buying more opera at the time though, so I forgot about them. Based on the reviews in this thread, I decided to get them and the came in today. I can't wait to get home and listen to them.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif Strange I never find Trevor Pinnock's Bach (at least in its pre-2000 phase) to be that extroverted or overt compared to pretty much everything else Bunnyears quoted above, from AAM Berlin, I Barocchisti etc. Nowadays I revisit Pinnock only when I want a break from more rigorous or "rugged" Bach performances, for something sane and smooth. Is that what rock 'n roll sounds like? Hmm. Maybe my conception of rock is more radical than it actually is, since I have little exposure to that genre. I have heard people who compare the Goebel Brandenburgs to Bach in "heavy metal" style. They may well hear rock 'n roll in Pinnock! What do I know indeed. I remember the Pinnock Bach Hpd Concertos and Brandenburg as being better recorded (if BWV1052 a bit over-reverbrant) than his solo discs (or the AAD Orchestral Suites) on DG Archiv. So you might want to consider his Hanssler recordings instead if you are to explore his performancs of Bach solo music.

Masolino,

I had been tempted to write that I had found the Pinnock harpsichord concertos rather English -- ie. straight forward and restrained rather than extroverted, spontaneous, and exuberant. However, it's been so many years since I listened to them, I wondered if my memory was betraying me. I actually think the Mortensen concertos are about the most extroverted version of those works that I have.

I recently received Hantaï's recording of the harpsichord concerti. On the cd that I have, the harpsichord sounds a bit recessed, especially at the beginning. Perhaps it was not as closely miked as it usually is in an attempt to make the sound closer to what you might hear in a recital. I don't know if I'm completely satisfied with that type of sound as it does take a little getting used to, so I wouldn't recommend it to newbies to Bach. Of course, my cd may be a dud (as they call them) with some sort of defect, so let me know if this is to be expected.