[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub I have another Beethoven set that I've haven't seen mentioned: Rene Leibowitz and the Royal Philharmonic from the early 60s. These were produced by RCA for Readers Digest. I picked the set up, used, at The Wherehouse for $8 and am constantly amazed at how energetic, volatile and dramatic the performances are. The 3rd gets off to a rip snorting start, and the coda of the finale is, by far, the best I've ever heard. Thrilling isn't strong enough. The 5th is faster than most then, or now, and the 7th is simply incredible. It was Beecham's orchestra and they play like gods. The closest thing I can match it to is Toscanini: in vastly superior sound. I love the set and can only hope that someday some of those wonderful RD recordings make it to general circulation. Has anyone else heard this set?

The Leibowitz set was recently reissued (although not in the US). It is available here from Amazon/uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...694592-1668410

I've been meaning to pick it up but haven't done so yet.

The Chesky release of Leibowitz is supposed to be great, but assembling them all would be very expensive.

Bunny: You know that I like the Krips set. It's available on poorly-mastered budget CD sets, but if one could find the Everest rerelease on CD, that is supposedly really something. (I have the vinyl set as you do).

Edit: Just ordered the UK Leibowitz.

 

[Bunnyears]

mbhaub,
The Lps are undated, but they come in a box with the description "Beethoven: The Nine Symphonies, Josef Krips and the London Symphony Orchestra; Special Edition/Recorded on 35mm Magnetic film. A Seven Record Set [punctuation added]." It has a picture of a commemorative medal with Beethoven's profile and his name in French, Louis van Beethoven. It is in Stereo, has no liner notes and is numbered 3162/7. The labels on the records give a California address for Everest. I don't know the date of the taping or the pressing. I suppose I could drag out a magnifying lens and see what they have marked on the lps themselves (not tonight, though). My dad bought them so I don't know when they were purchased but sometime from the late 50s to late 60s is the ballpark. I suspect that the sound on these Lps is probably authentic cheap sound. I've heard Everest described as the Naxos of its day, but I think that title really belongs to Nonesuch.

Doc and mbhaub,

The Leibowitz set looks very expensive at £25 ($38.01) for a reissue of a set originally marketed for Readers Digest, especially on a label that I'm not familiar with (Scribendum). It's tempting but I wonder if I need another Beethoven cycle of that vintage when there will be more coming down the pike, especially by Thomas Fey with the Heidelberger Symphoniker. The Jordi Savall Eroica posted by Masolino looks much more interesting as I know what I will be getting with Savall. The Brüggen also looks interesting as I am more familiar with his work with Haydn and Bach (both excellent).

Zumaro,

I'm sorry, but after listening to about 5 of the 9 symphonies last night I cannot say that the Harnoncourt Beethoven is to my taste at all. Sound quality is Teldec's best but the symphonies just don't catch for me. I don't know why but I think they are a noble experiment gone awry, especially the pastorale symphony which is probably the slowest on record. After listening to the plodding 4th and stentorian 7th I didn't have the heart to go further. If there is a gem in this set I haven't found it, but I didn't listen to the 1st, 2nd, 5th or 9th. I just didn't have the heart. This is not Beethoven or Harnoncourt at their best. If you want to get an idea of what Harnoncourt's symphonies could have sounded like, try and get one of Thomas Fey's recordings. They are of such amazing quality that I cannot understand why more people haven't heard them.

Masolino,

When were the Bruggen Symphonies recorded? They seem to be a period orchestra and Bruggen has done excellent work with Haydn so these are a real temptation.

 

[Bunnyears]

All I can say at this point is Thank God Google was invented!

I have found a review of the Liebowitz which I excerpt here from classic record collector:

Quote:

While these recordings have always enjoyed a strong 'underground' reputation, the modes of distribution used to sell them initially both in the US and in England - mail order and subscription - have militated against a more widespread recognition of their musical worth. Scribendum has done a good job of reissuing these valuable readings as a set (they have previously been available as single CDs on the American Chesky label, which enjoyed an extensive licensing arrangement with Reader's Digest). For those without access to the luxuriously packaged original stereo LP set, this new issue will be more than adequate, with fine remastering by Ian Jones of Abbey Road Studios and reasonable documentation. This Beethoven cycle stands as probably René Leibowitz's most significant recording achievement, and a fitting memorial to his highly individual if ultimately honest style of interpretation and performance. DAVID PATMORE

I also found the set at Russiandvd.com for $89.00 which was just the incentive I needed to order the set from amazon.uk.

I also found the Brüggen set available at jpc.de for €34.99 and found a review of that one as well. I suppose I don't really need to say that I ordered that one as well.

Edit: Cancelled the Brüggen set as the shipping practically doubled the price, and the price did not include the VAT bringing it in at close to $60.00!!! Just too much for this one.

 

[augustwest]

Bohm is top notch well thought out Beethoven. It is far superior to most sets available, both in recording quality & performance. It's weakest point is the 7th, which is perhaps a little too slow. That said this set beats most of the competition, and is especially to be prefered to the over-rated HVK sets.

- augustwest

 

[mbhaub]

In all this discussion of Beethoven, I'm just wondering if anyone is bothered by the political choices of Bohm, Karajan, Jochum, Mengelberg and more than a few others. They were Nazis. Does a conductor's non-musical activities ever influence purchasing? I really enjoy the Austrian conductor Oswald Kabasta, but I feel almost dirty listening to his recordings knowing that he was a big supporter of Adolf and company.

 

[Bunnyears]

I think this was discussed pretty exhaustively in a thread earlier in the year. Give it a bump if you have something interesting to say.

 

[Bunnyears]

Anyone know anything about Sir Colin Davis's Beethoven symphonies with the Staatskapelle Dresden? It's been re-released by Universal-Australia. It goes for an astronomical price of £186.99 at amazon.uk but can be obtained from HMV australia for much, much less (US $51.34).

 

[redshifter]

augustwest,
your comments prompted me to find my dg beethoven/bohm 9 symphonies vinyl set out of storage. this was the set i had as a boy before cd's came around. i put on the 3rd symphony and 1st movement of the 9th. first of all, the vinyl is in great shape, and the vpo sounded really convincing; the textures of a live orchestra were all there (it is a studio recording though), especially the brass and woodwinds. the cd versions of the same (at least on my rig) sound good but have a glassy sheen over some of the spikier textures, if you follow.

the performances just blew my 1963 hvk away. bohm's experience with mozart and opera translates into beethoven that is nuanced, detailed and very dramatic. bohm draws out inner detail that karajan seems to rush over. the only place i think karajan did better was in some of the syncopated rhythms in the 1st movement of the 9th, which really drive the music forward. again the recording sounds very good for a 1970 lpand i encourage the op to take a serious look at bohm's set.

 

[redshifter]

ok that's strange. my above post never showed up originally even after several hard refreshes (from the hf server). now it's here. like it's been spooling.

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter the performances just blew my 1963 hvk away. bohm's experience with mozart and opera translates into beethoven that is nuanced, detailed and very dramatic. bohm draws out inner detail that karajan seems to rush over. the only place i think karajan did better was in some of the syncopated rhythms in the 1st movement of the 9th, which really drive the music forward. again the recording sounds very good for a 1970 lpand i encourage the op to take a serious look at bohm's set.

That is a fair assessment. Böhm, in Beethoven, but everywhere else, had a clear sense of inner architecture and mood. If one listens to his Bayreuth Ring, and especially his Die Walküre, there is a caution and precision given to the scores that produces some wonderful results. That also makes the recording one of the most frantic and neurotic on the market.

For me, between Von Karajan and Böhm, the contest was not a difficult one. Von Karajan tended (looking at identical scores) to be beautiful and glossy. In contrast, Böhm always seemed to be as concerned with how the music worked as he was with how the music sounded. Böhm, subjectively speaking, stands between the broad strokes of Von Karajan and the hyper-precise work of Boulez.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 ...If one listens to his Bayreuth Ring, and especially his Die Walküre, there is a caution and precision given to the scores that produces some wonderful results. That also makes the recording one of the most frantic and neurotic on the market...

bohm and wagner? now that i'd like to hear. is it available, and how does it sound?

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter bohm and wagner? now that i'd like to hear. is it available, and how does it sound?

His complete Ring on Philips is not available in the U.S. right now. It is, though, available on eBay and elsewhere for about 100-125$. His Die Walküre, on the short list for best-ever, was part of the Philips 50 set and is available on its own.

He did a Bayreuth Der fliegende Holländer on DG (as an import), as well. I haven't heard that, preferring Klemperer or Levine in the work.

Here is the Arkiv list of his Wagner recordings.

 

[redshifter]

thanks so much for the link. i'm picking up the bohm wagner, as well as:
Dvorák, Tchaikovsky, Borodin: Quartets / Emerson String Qt CD $8.99 (for the tchiakovsky quartet 1)
Beethoven: Complete String Quartets / Alban Berg Quartett CD $44.63 (which got a 10/10)
and the legiti requiem

 

[philcha]

Thanks for a very informative discussion! I found this thread while looking for a Beethoven symphonies set myself.

Rimsy, you may find Amazon useful - the link goes to Amazon's search sresults for "beethoven symphonies". Many of Amazon's product pages allow you to play snippets of tracks, usually about 1 minute long. You'll need both Windows Media Player and RealPlayer (download this if you don't have it), since some tracks are not available in both formats. Also you'll find Amazon's a bit inconsistent about which pages have snippets - for example, sometimes a page for a complete set won't have snippets but pages for the individual CDs will, and sometimes it's the other way round - you just have to be stubborn!

 

[rimsy]

Hi all,

I've received my Zinman set today. Even though I'm not familiar with the score enough to comment on the specific strengths and weeknesses of this particular performance, I can already tell that the recording is very fine indeed. There is no hiss whatsoever (at least it isn't noticeable on my equipment) and the dynamic range is really good in my book. The sound of the orchestra is fluid and smooth like glacé gloves, and yet it remains fairly detailed. All in all, a very pleasant experience. Thanks for the advice.

I should add that I'm currently checking the CDs out on my new HD 650. I'm afraid that I'm not able to completely separate my first impressions of the two so I figure I might as well mention some of my early observations of these cans. They've seen only about 30hrs of usage but I already wonder if they are going change significantly with more playtime as I have yet to hear any changes (maybe with the exception of a slight bass retreat). Although they're supposed to sound veiled and dark, I have a growing feeling that I wouldn't be able to stand any more prominent highs -- just a bit more and my ears would hurt. I have trouble imagining Grado house sound now ^_^.

There you have the picture. Sorry for the off-topic bit.