[rimsy]

Hello all,

I'm thinking of exploring classical music a bit more and so I'd like to get the best available recordings of all Beethoven's symphonies for starters (the BBC radio service cycle really spurred my interest). I've narrowed the search down to Böhm's cycle (DG, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GL9/" etc.) and the remastered von Karajan's 60's cycle (DG, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GZ4/").

Note that I'll most likely buy the Kleiber's version of the 5th & 7th in addition to one of the aforementioned sets. I should also add that not having any hi-res player, I'm looking for redbook only.

Which set would you recommend me? Do you know of another good one? All suggestions appreciated. Thank you.

 

[mbhaub]

There's no such thing as a single set with the Best Ever recordings for every symphony. Personally, I'd skip Bohm and get the Karajan -- if only for a listen to how glorious the large orchestra Beethoven model sounded for much of the 20th century. There are other sets from that era that are equally fine, but DG sure had great sound in those days.
In more recent years I've enjoyed Harnoncourt and Zinman (super budget) just as much as anything from the past. THey employ smaller orchestras which add immensely to the clarity and lightness, which is so often missing from the big orchestra versions. I also recently have discovered the super budget version on EMI from Berlin with Andre Cluytens. Same orchestra as Karajan, very different performances, and very beautiful.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimsy Hello all, I'm thinking of exploring classical music a bit more and so I'd like to get the best available recordings of all Beethoven's symphonies for starters (the BBC radio service cycle really spurred my interest). I've narrowed the search down to Böhm's cycle (DG, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GL9/" etc.) and the remastered von Karajan's 60's cycle (DG, "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GZ4/"). Note that I'll most likely buy the Kleiber's version of the 5th & 7th in addition to one of the aforementioned sets. I should also add that not having any hi-res player, I'm looking for redbook only. Which set would you recommend me? Do you know of another good one? All suggestions appreciated. Thank you.

I really think that you should forget about the overpriced, mediocre sound quality HvK set and opt instead for the better sounding, zippier Zinman Beethoven Symphonies also available at Amazon and/or the Barenboim Complete Beethoven Symphonies from Amazon UK (just press the button at the bottom of the home page to get to amazon uk and put Daniel Barenboim beethoven symphonies into the search. You should get this page.)
The prices quoted include VAT which is deducted for shipment to America. Cost of shipping usually brings the price to about the same in dollars as is quoted in pounds sterling. It's a much better sounding set than the HvK and more in the Furtwangler mode, but still it is far preferable to the HvK who was probably conducting more by reflex by the time he did those recordings.

You also should think about getting a performance of the symphonies on period instruments. There are well priced sets such as Gardiner's cycle with the Orchestre Romantique and Revolutionnaire which is available at yourmusic.com and other bmg clubs, or even Hogwood's set with the Academy of Ancient Music easily found at Amazon. These are not the only historicially informed performances available, but they are priced well and are a good starting point.

 

[PSmith08]

If big-band Beethoven is what you're after, then I second the recommendation for the '63 Von Karajan. The CD set can still be found for thirty or thirty-five dollars. The SACD/Hybrid set is about three times as expensive. However, you might add the non-SACD version of the '77 9th, which has a better cast and a less-impersonal performance. Also, Wilhelm Furtwängler's '51 Bayreuth performance of the same is almost de rigeur for any Beethoven collection.

However, I have make Gardiner's set my stock recommendation. His performances, while HIP, so to speak, are intense and interesting on many levels. I don't know if this is what Beethoven heard, but it's what I like to hear.

Böhm isn't all that bad, don't get me wrong, but his talents were elsewhere (like Wagner and Mozart). His last 9th is almost terminally slow.

 

[rimsy]

Thanks, I'll look into the Zinman and Barenboim sets too. I should stress that I'm from EU. American amazon appealed to me for it's lower prices than its european brethern.

I'm aware that it's impossible to find the `best ever' set but a great one will do it for me

. I need a good starting point.

 

[Bunnyears]

PSmith,

I have that HvK set and it really is antiquated sounding now (forget the throwaway performances of the even numbers, especially the awful 6th and boring 8th). I can see getting the Boehm for historic reference, especially since the performances are so slow but when there are other, newer sets available for less it doesn't make sense to start with the HvK. And why buy a set used (and I have been burned by many Amazon vendors -- for instance a cd with a deep scratch and $2.00 in the case to make up for the fact, and the set was listed "as new.") In fact, I would never recommend the Boehm symphonies to a newbie either, but that seems to be his chosen starting point.

Also, we should mention that the Kleiber he is insterested in is an excellent choice, but I would just like to say that the stereo layer on the SACD/hybrid is better than the stereo layer on the original issue. If he wants other individual symphony performances, then he should definitely investigate the Thomas Fey recordings, although Fey seems to have been sidetracked by Haydn.

As for the Furtwangler, well you have to admit that stirring performances aside, the sound quality is really poor. Furtwangler is for those who know their Beethoven and can hear through the poor sound to evaluate performance, not newbies. For those starting out, I think the Zinman, Barenboim and Gardiner are probably the best bets.

 

[PSmith08]

Bunnyears: All that you say is true.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears I really think that you should forget about the overpriced, mediocre sound quality HvK set and opt instead for the better sounding, zippier Zinman Beethoven Symphonies also available at Amazon and/or the Barenboim Complete Beethoven Symphonies from Amazon UK (just press the button at the bottom of the home page to get to amazon uk and put Daniel Barenboim beethoven symphonies into the search. You should get this page.) The prices quoted include VAT which is deducted for shipment to America. Cost of shipping usually brings the price to about the same in dollars as is quoted in pounds sterling. It's a much better sounding set than the HvK and more in the Furtwangler mode, but still it is far preferable to the HvK who was probably conducting more by reflex by the time he did those recordings. You also should think about getting a performance of the symphonies on period instruments. There are well priced sets such as Gardiner's cycle with the Orchestre Romantique and Revolutionnaire which is available at yourmusic.com and other bmg clubs, or even Hogwood's set with the Academy of Ancient Music easily found at Amazon. These are not the only historicially informed performances available, but they are priced well and are a good starting point.

Bunny's got it right here - If I were buying my first Beethoven set, I'd go for either the Barenboim (from Amazon UK since it's so much cheaper there), the Zinam, or the Gardiner. As it is I have all three!

I will say this, though - the HvK 1963 9th is a wonder to listen to!

 

[zumaro]

If I am in it for a complete set then I would go for either Zinman or Harnoncourt first. In fact at superbudget price the Zinman has to be the winner really - a high standard of interpretation that has taken notice of HIP techniques, coupled with good sound. Slightly prefer Harnoncourt myself, but theres not much in it really.

Forget HvK and Bohm; they belong to another age, without even the redeeming virtue of true greatness that the likes of Furtwangler or Kleiber can draw out of the music.

 

[zumaro]

Further thoughts - the 70s Karajan set has some good performances too - the 5th and 9th still sound good.

I like Gardiner as well but somehow find the set less even overall than Zinman or Harnoncourt. At bargain basement price and on early instruments is the Norrington set with the London Classical Players, and this has some very good performances - especially 2 and 8 which really catch fire. I will have to check out the Barenboim now after all the recommendations.

 

[bigshot]

I have both the Karajan and the Bohm. I say get the Bohm. It has the most beautiful Pastoral symphony on record.

FYI: I prefer my Beethoven in the romantic tradition... not HIP.

See ya
Steve

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumaro I will have to check out the Barenboim now after all the recommendations.

Be sure to buy it on Amazon UK or another European site - it's much cheaper there.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumaro Further thoughts - the 70s Karajan set has some good performances too - the 5th and 9th still sound good. I like Gardiner as well but somehow find the set less even overall than Zinman or Harnoncourt. At bargain basement price and on early instruments is the Norrington set with the London Classical Players, and this has some very good performances - especially 2 and 8 which really catch fire. I will have to check out the Barenboim now after all the recommendations.

If you are getting the Norrington, then you should be sure to get the recordings made with the Stuttgart Radio Orchestra on Hännsler classics. They are not available boxed but can be purchased individually at very reasonable prices. They are also available at yourmusic.com and other bmg music clubs as well (or at least they have been available). The boxed set from Virgin is just not as good, especially for the Pastorale and the Ninth.

Edit: I don't tend to recommend the Harnoncourt Beethoven. Although he is one of my very favorite conductors because he takes risks, sometimes he crashes. His Beethoven is very uneven, especially the 6th (pastorale) which is completely, totally horrid by everyone's estimation. Again, for a newby we should recommend more consistant sets.

 

[Wilson]

To me, Bohm's interpretations on 3rd and 6th were outstanding.



Happy listening,
W

 

[Bunnyears]

Just went to check it out: Harnoncourt's Beethoven Symphonies are not on period instruments but modern instruments with the exception of the horns.