[kman1211]

That would be me, but for what I personally want a headphone to be I find it mostly true. But I wasn’t trying to be condescending nor dismissive, just an old guy who’s been in the hobby for over 50 years expressing his observations on the current state of the audio hobby in general, retrospectively speaking.
That’s not to say there are not a lot of exciting things happening out there.
But all romanticizing aside I really do hope the OAE1, and, yes I was previously addressing Axel “xlcans” directly, really does bring something new and interesting with regards to headphone listening.

I would like something new and different as well, I want my different headphones to sound quite different from each other. It's why I really appreciated the Beyer T1.3 when it came out, it was so different and still nothing sounds quite like it. It was also why I liked the Nighthawk which was an unique take on things as well. My DT 480 is even more radically different than those.

Definitely curious about the OAE1, I hope they do things very different as well, an unique presentation/perspective will be much welcome. I don't want things too homogeneous. After a lot of experimenting with Senns recently and particularly the HD 6xx line, I ended up settling on the HD 650 and the HD 660S2 as they stood out as the most unique sounding of the bunch for me in terms of sound presentation and character. The HD 660S got displaced by the R70x which I think has a more unique presentation and does a similar sound signature better imho and I view this thing as my neutral reference as it's more neutral than any of the HD 6xx line imho. I do not like the HD 560S/400 Pro, too lean and don't like their treble presentation. The NDH-30 wasn't my cup of tea either. Not sure if I'll like the HD 490 Pro, it seems another take on the HD 560S driver and I don't really like how that driver presents sound much. The HD 600 wasn't bad but found them annoying in the upper-mids/lower treble.

 

[Evshrug]

Feather light, and probably best suited for mindless browsing and light listening on youtube and what not.

I agree on all those points with the MA-900, and add that it was pretty amazing for competitive FPS gaming and a great platform for headphone surround processing. That feather light enclosure and excellent heat dissipation was also just awesome while relaxing on a couch or in bed.

I do hope the upcoming OAE1 will have a bit heavier sound and bass foundation, but I suppose it should at least have the same advantages of those discontinued Sony’s.

Btw, I’m personally not a basshead, but I do like controlled bass, perhaps slightly elevated above the mids because I tend to listen at modest dB levels.

 

[Rob80b]

and it certainly has the “sound equipment” vibe, perhaps more serious like pro gear (it wouldn’t look out of place next to a microphone for example).

I really like this observation as the headphone fundamentally speaking really is a microphone in reverse and why we had the likes of AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser pioneering and being the leaders of the field for so long.
Probably why Axel's OAE1 is so refreshing as it does appear to follow form and function without unnecessary superlatives.
Similar to this Senn MD413 I've have in use since the 70s.

 

[Evshrug]

I really like this observation as the headphone fundamentally speaking really is a microphone in reverse and why we had the likes of AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser pioneering and being the leaders of the field for so long.
Probably why Axel's OAE1 is so refreshing as it does appear to follow form and function without unnecessary superlatives.
Similar to this Senn MD413 I've have in use since the 70s.

Yep! Maybe the OAE1 isn’t whimsical, but the clean industrial design would fit right in there.

 

[Tachyon88]

Fair enough. I'll have to take your word for it, as I'm not buying a power amp to drive a pair of 300 ohm headphones anytime soon.

You don't need a power amp because there are plenty head amps that can drive that load with EQ. I agree with him that the bass is good especially with HT eq. I've saved more edm and metal songs listening to that HP than anything else. That layered sound stage doesn't hurt either.

 

[Tachyon88]

EQ is not exactly the same… It’s like EQ’ing Susvara on A90, if you know what I mean. LOL.
On SGP1 the HD800S/HD650’s low end goes low and most importantly it’s controlled.

Not offended, but I did exactly that and bass never presented as not controlled, but, clean, tight and punchy. Which makes sense because the A90 can supply more current than the susvara ever use on medium gain with EQ. On the DD side of things the HD800s never left low gain with EQ. Plenty of people have used power amps only to report they don't' find a significant difference with the various HP they try, all things equal. Others say otherwise, but that might come down to audio worldview and the culture/thread that influences it.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

As you know I also had the NHD30, but near field for me is still limited as one cannot escape the fact one is listening to near field monitors...and therefor lacks immersiveness, which unfortunately can mean many things to many people.

I still have to hear a headphone that can reproduce sound like monitor speakers in which the monitors disappear and you are presented a sound/music that is staged in front of you and behind the speaker with an even deeper phantom center stage.
This is what my initial speculation the OAE1 can replicate with its driver placement and design.

 

[Menkau-ra]

Not offended, but I did exactly that and bass never presented as not controlled, but, clean, tight and punchy. Which makes sense because the A90 can supply more current than the susvara ever use on medium gain with EQ. On the DD side of things the HD800s never left low gain with EQ. Plenty of people have used power amps only to report they don't' find a significant difference with the various HP they try, all things equal. Others say otherwise, but that might come down to audio worldview and the culture/thread that influences it.

It’s probably depends on a specific power amp and headphone synergy. I don’t believe that any speaker amp is the answer. But I can speak for Soncoz SGP1 in particular and confirm, that it has deeper and better controlled bass than Oor/Hypsos when using HD650/HD800S.
I could never EQ HD650/HD800S to have the same low end as SGP1 provides.

 

[Rob80b]

I still have to hear a headphone that can reproduce sound like monitor speakers in which the monitors disappear and you are presented a sound/music that is staged in front of you and behind the speaker with an even deeper phantom center stage.
This is what my initial speculation the OAE1 can replicate with its driver placement and design.

We can only hope. But outside of binaural recordings with headphones it may not be possible but I'm waiting for the day.
For those who have never experienced a properly set up stereo speaker system there may be a slight learning curve as the headphone listening experience is quite different.

 

[Evshrug]

I still have to hear a headphone that can reproduce sound like monitor speakers in which the monitors disappear and you are presented a sound/music that is staged in front of you and behind the speaker with an even deeper phantom center stage.
This is what my initial speculation the OAE1 can replicate with its driver placement and design.

Well, making the source of sound “disappear” and blend into phantom angles is a tricky thing. With monitors and HiFi home speakers, the room is just as much an instrument participating in the playback as the speaker is. As sound waves emanate out from a point source (such as a speaker) in the shape of a sphere, the part of the sphere that was heading directly toward you is what you hear first, but everything that bounces off front, side, and back walls arrives later and at different angles. Without a crossfeed and something to emulate those room reflections, you will not get that surround sound /spatial effect.

With that said… headphone surround is possible, with a little help. Speaker-like headphone sound has been my goal since early 2009. One way to achieve this is to record and master music (or other media) with playback intended for headphones in the first place! Some artists use binaural microphones that look like mannequin heads and shoulders: put one of those in a recording studio with musicians or a pair of monitor speakers and they will record that “phantom center” and diffuse field reflections and reverb of the room accurately and you will hear it in the song playback. Chesky records is notable for having many recordings made this way, but This album is another example of that technique:
https://songwhip.com/ottmar-liebert/up-close

Music engineers can also create headphone mixes after the fact using Head-Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs), which is processing that mathematically uses sound measured at the ear, compares that to the sound as it would measure at the speaker, and saves the contrasting difference in frequency response and micro-timing changes as an effect to apply to speaker-mastered-music (plus crossfeed) to convert it. Apple Music and Tidal prominently feature playlists of stereo music remixed in this way using Dolby Atmos Headphone, but I find the effect better when engineers tailor-tune the effect:
https://songwhip.com/ricky-martin/pausa-headphone-mix

In my experience, Spatial Audio for headphones is most convincing when the listener uses head-tracking combined with a customized HRTF; after all, our ears are physically even more unique than our fingerprints, by orders of magnitude. Not all VR headsets or sound cards allow the HRTF to be customized, but the natural ERTF (ear related transfer function) of a fullsized headphone with angled drivers does go a long way towards naturally applying that personal reception tonality to everything we hear.

The pictures of the OAE1 drivers show they are more angled than any headphone than I’ve ever seen before. For the complete “in front localization” illusion, we still need to add that difference between the sound at the speaker and the sound measured at the ear, also head tracking of subtle movements, but the OAE1 will be a great platform to add generalized processing and crossfeed because of the inherent ERTF effect of the design that will bounce sound waves off the multitude of folds and cups of our outer ears.

We can only hope. But outside of binaural recordings with headphones it may not be possible but I'm waiting for the day.
For those who have never experienced a properly set up stereo speaker system there may be a slight learning curve as the headphone listening experience is quite different.

The OAE1 listening experience may be different from other headphones, especially those with drivers positioned at 90° (like the HD 6XX/650) or in-ear canalphones that bypass the outer ear / pinna, but the OAE1 might actually sound more natural like how our ears head the live environment. As long as the tuning isn’t so wild it overpowers the ERTF entirely.

 

[Evshrug]

It’s probably depends on a specific power amp and headphone synergy. I don’t believe that any speaker amp is the answer. But I can speak for Soncoz SGP1 in particular and confirm, that it has deeper and better controlled bass than Oor/Hypsos when using HD650/HD800S.
I could never EQ HD650/HD800S to have the same low end as SGP1 provides.

Though both a Topping amp and my Cavalli Liquid Carbon (oh I wish I had a Liquid Glass!) have way more power than is needed to drive the HD 800S to deafening loudness, I think my Cavalli has a little bit of pleasant harmonic distortion that seems to make the bass seem to extend deeper and have a “more solid body.” Or something like that; it sounds simultaneously clear but also richer than some of my other amps.

Equipment synergy is definitely a thing; I’m glad you found some!

 

[Tachyon88]

It’s probably depends on a specific power amp and headphone synergy. I don’t believe that any speaker amp is the answer. But I can speak for Soncoz SGP1 in particular and confirm, that it has deeper and better controlled bass than Oor/Hypsos when using HD650/HD800S.
I could never EQ HD650/HD800S to have the same low end as SGP1 provides.

I've read people buying the Oor for their susvara thinking it would unlock the bass only for them to be disappointed, while other's claim the opposite. I know you're talking about the DD HP. However I do find it interesting that one amp with more than enough power can't produce what another amp can with more than enough power, even though the HP only uses what it needs anyways. Interesting how people can perceive the same equipment differently.....which makes me wonder.

 

[Evshrug]

I still have to hear a headphone that can reproduce sound like monitor speakers in which the monitors disappear and you are presented a sound/music that is staged in front of you and behind the speaker with an even deeper phantom center stage.
This is what my initial speculation the OAE1 can replicate with its driver placement and design.

I hope I didn’t bum you out! I just wanted to share realistic expectations, but also share how to achieve in-front localization. Because that is something I have also pursued for 15 years! Perhaps I should specify that what you described (phantom center stage) sounds like the industry term In-Front Localization, which is achievable with signal processing, but that is different from headphone soundstage and imaging, both of which I expect the OAE1 will do very well, one of the best if not the best.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

I hope I didn’t bum you out! I just wanted to share realistic expectations, but also share how to achieve in-front localization. Because that is something I have also pursued for 15 years! Perhaps I should specify that what you described (phantom center stage) sounds like the industry term In-Front Localization, which is achievable with signal processing, but that is different from headphone soundstage and imaging, both of which I expect the OAE1 will do very well, one of the best if not the best.

Not at all. I am very much intrigued on how the OAE1 presents it’s sound. Could it be a different presentation than a typical headphone that most that heard it at canjam NYC called it “whack”? Is that whack more related to FR tuning or how the sound is delivered and perceived? I want to know what this “whack” sound like. Hoping the phone will make an appearance at AXPONA this weekend.

 

[Rob80b]

both of which I expect the OAE1 will do very well, one of the best if not the best.

More insight...
https://drop.com/talk/137963/the-mo...15778.775144274470003816683206&referer=A86FDN
"So, according to what is known today, the acoustic impedance of the headphones measured from the ear should be as low as possible. Ideally, it should be completely open, such as the AKG K1000 head loudspeaker. Unfortunately, such designs have poor bass reproduction due to their design principle. With the OAE1, the aim was therefore to achieve a combination of natural bass reproduction and low acoustic impedance."