[Evshrug]

Design theory I’m a fan but it’s in real world application that matter. The only thing I can see that attributed in the “weirdness” of the sound is reflection, driver that looks to be sitting on your face

Good point; with all of grell’s seminars explaining the benefits of an open headphone design, and showing evidence how the OAE1 is one of the most open headphones (probably THE most open other than ear speakers, though I know of a few Sony designs with significant open sections), the face and ear is one of the last places for reflections to happen.

Some of the reflections are good (for the sake of tone through natural interaction with the outer ear), as referenced in the design brief document on drop:
https://drop.com/talk/137429/the-driver-geometry-of-the-grell-headphones

And then there are reflections that won’t matter much because they’re reflected away from the ear and not reflected back by the open earcup.


@ApertureSilence
On the contrary! I see great efforts given to show why the unique design decisions were made. The reasoning is laid out logically. It’s a culmination of 30 ish years of development, with a couple dashes of innovation (more “open” airflow + more ear interaction) rather than re-making old successes. Grell is an indie company with a passion project, not an exploitative corporation coasting on its laurels. I think other companies are doing cool things too but that’s a bit off topic for

Yeah seriously, who wants pretty headphones that sound good?

Wood cups are not the only path to either good sound or aesthetics. I doubt other companies would like all their design efforts attributed to simply pretty wood. Instead of a mesh surface, the steel mesh bubble is unique among headphones, and it certainly has the “sound equipment” vibe, perhaps more serious like pro gear (it wouldn’t look out of place next to a microphone for example).

.....how well Alxel has succeeded, again I can only speculate at this time.

Just so it’s clear to everyone, @xlcans is Axel Grell’s head-fi username. I haven’t heard the new headphone yet either, but you were responding directly to the designer. Given that the OAE1 doesn’t follow the status quo, I do think it will sound different than 2003 or 2009 headphones, and we should set our expectations for something new in 2024!

Of course, that's what folks do. Like Apple, you and Drop release little bites of info ever so often and folks cover and speculate on it. Then why attend a show with your product if you don't want the attention?

By the same token, I don’t think Nomax is an employee (notice no MoT tags), but rather a well-connected fan who attends many trade shows. I think he loves all the high end stuff from many designers/brands. He does love teasing bits of info for sure

Me? I was MoT, but right now I’m just building bikes for adults & children at a Dick’s Sporting store. I never stopped caring about headphones.

 

[ApertureSilence]

@ApertureSilence
On the contrary! I see great efforts given to show why the unique design decisions were made. The reasoning is laid out logically. It’s a culmination of 30 ish years of development, with a couple dashes of innovation (more “open” airflow + more ear interaction) rather than re-making old successes. Grell is an indie company with a passion project, not an exploitative corporation coasting on its laurels. I think other companies are doing cool things too but that’s a bit off topic for

I think you must have misunderstood me. All I was saying was that I am generally pro-innovation and that the so-far divisive impressions of the headphone made me more interested in hearing it. It really could go either way for me at this point.

Wood cups are not the only path to either good sound or aesthetics. I doubt other companies would like all their design efforts attributed to simply pretty wood. Instead of a mesh surface, the steel mesh bubble is unique among headphones, and it certainly has the “sound equipment” vibe, perhaps more serious like pro gear (it wouldn’t look out of place next to a microphone for example).

The poster I was responding to described "pretty metal and wood cups" with overly safe tunings. I found this to be condescending and dismissive, which is why I responded with some snark. At no point did I say anything about wood cups being the only way to good sound or aesthetics. Sure, I like ZMF (and to a much lesser degree Meze), but I also like a lot of other headphone designs. Heck, I love the Raal SR1b, and that couldn't be further from what you describe.

I haven’t heard the new headphone yet either, but you were responding directly to the designer. Given that the OAE1 doesn’t follow the status quo, I do think it will sound different than 2003 or 2009 headphones, and we should set our expectations for something new in 2024!

At this point neither of us have heard the headphones, so it's all hype/speculation.

 

[zilax002]

@xlcans Thank for for all the information about OAE1 and its design you're provided so far!

I was wondering if you could discuss the choice of a bio-cellulose diaphragm and what kind of benefits that choice offered over other diaphragm materials.

 

[Evshrug]

I think you must have misunderstood me. All I was saying was that I am generally pro-innovation and that the so-far divisive impressions of the headphone made me more interested in hearing it. It really could go either way for me at this point.

I have to say I have misunderstood you, if this is how you feel. We'll have common ground with regards to innovation, though I haven't seen/read many impressions on the latest prototype yet other than the Head-Fi staff's (somewhat intentionally – I think I have the means to get one without other reviewers' giving me preconceptions). I'm also a longtime fan of ZMF, though I haven't heard their latest models like the Caldera.

Myself, I have enjoyed the HD 500 series (affordable, good soundstage which I attributed to both the tuning and angled driver), HD 600 series (nice solid sense of heft without being bassy, strangely comfortable long-term), and HD 800 series (great soundstage and high performance) in the past for different reasons, as well as other headphones such as the Sony MDR-MA900 (which was also rather open), and the Fostex TH-909 (which also had a bio-cellulose diaphragm). It's true I haven't heard Grell’s OAE1, but I am hopeful and even optimistic due to my wish list of blending the best qualities of those headphones into one sold at a median price point, and it's possible this may check off that list for me. Realistically, adding up the elements of those won't sound like any one of those headphones, nor am I expecting a flagship killer for just a couple bucks, but it's ok to hope for a nice balance.

I would be absolutely surprised and crushed if this was bad. But I feel there's a good chance it could be good, or even great. Despite my name, I don't think I'll feel "meh " about this no matter what, haha.

 

[Menkau-ra]

and HD 800 series (great soundstage and clarity, exciting though I wished for a bit more low end)

HD800s has plenty of bass… if used on a speaker amp like SGP1. People just under power them.

 

[ApertureSilence]

I have to say I have misunderstood you, if this is how you feel.

Myself, I have enjoyed the HD 500 series (affordable, good soundstage which I attributed to both the tuning and angled driver), HD 600 series (really nice tuning, strangely comfortable long-term), and HD 800 series (great soundstage and clarity, exciting though I wished for a bit more low end) in the past for different reasons, as well as other headphones such as the Sony MDR-MA900 (which was also rather open), and the Fostex TH-909 (which also had a bio-cellulose diaphragm). It's true I haven't heard it, but I am hopeful and even optimistic due to my wish list of blending the best qualities of those headphones into one sold at a median price point, and it's possible this may check off that list for me.

I would be absolutely surprised and crushed if this was bad. But despite my name, I don't think I'll feel "meh " about this no matter what, haha.

Before seriously getting into the hobby three years ago, I almost exclusively listened to Sennheisers because that was the only brand I really knew and trusted most of my life. I’ve been up and down their product lines over the years, so I get it. I’ve owned the 555, the 579, the 6XX, the 600, and the 800S.

Though I have long moved on from Sennheiser, I feel the Auteur is close enough in tonality to the 600 to scratch my nostalgic itch for those days.

Alex certainly knows how to design and tune a headphone, but let's not pretend he hasn't mis-stepped on occasion (HD700), so this being bad isn't out of the realm of possibility. I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[ApertureSilence]

HD800s has plenty of bass… if used on a speaker amp like SGP1. People just under power them.

While I haven't run them out of a speaker amp, I've run them out of plenty powerful amps (Enleum, Bliss) and the bass has never not been slightly disappointing to me even in the best circumstances.

 

[Menkau-ra]

While I haven't run them out of a speaker amp, I've run them out of plenty powerful amps (Enleum, Bliss) and the bass has never not been slightly disappointing to me even in the best circumstances.

No, Bliss is not the same as a power amp. AHB2 or SGP1 is the way to properly drive Sennheisers

 

[ApertureSilence]

No, Bliss is not the same as a power amp. AHB2 or SGP1 is the way to properly drive Sennheisers

Fair enough. I'll have to take your word for it, as I'm not buying a power amp to drive a pair of 300 ohm headphones anytime soon.

 

[Evshrug]

HD800s has plenty of bass… if used on a speaker amp like SGP1. People just under power them.

I enjoyed the HD 800 I have with a few small component tweaks... I'm wearing one right now haha, powered by a Cavalli! Not every headphone song has to do Muse's "Undisclosed Desires" sub bass moments near the end, but I am happy enough with a slight EQ bump for that song to just make them a little more apparent. Nothing major; something similar to iFi's XBass (and I liked their XSpace effect too), though I don't own one of their amps.

Alex certainly knows how to design and tune a headphone, but let's not pretend he hasn't mis-stepped on occasion (HD700)

Actually, the HD 700 was a bit more "designed by committee" than an Axel project. But I don't think every project was always perfected, and some were better in future iterations, like the HD 595 vs HD 598. The HD 660S is personally my preference over the HD 650, though I realize preferences were divided when that was released (I liked the bit of extra excitement!). There's no accounting for taste/ The customer is always right in matters of taste.

Real quick: I didn't seriously get into the hobby until 2008, and my path was Etymotic ER•6i< AD700<Q701<K712 Pro ~ K612 Pro... and it wasn't until 2015 that I surprised myself by having enough money for an HD 800 and a trip to CanJam RMAF (Denver), but after that I went crazy and all over the place. For awhile, I consulted for Sennheiser and Dekoni Audio, and I was able to borrow and hear at trade shows all kinds of different headphones! But that also meant I couldn't review anymore, though eventually I left Sennheiser and Dekoni and sporadically have tried my hand at it again (I want more Head-Fi emojis, haha!).

 

[SHAMuuu]

Myself, I have enjoyed the HD 500 series (affordable, good soundstage which I attributed to both the tuning and angled driver), HD 600 series (nice solid sense of heft without being bassy, strangely comfortable long-term), and HD 800 series (great soundstage and high performance) in the past for different reasons, as well as other headphones such as the Sony MDR-MA900 (which was also rather open), and the Fostex TH-909 (which also had a bio-cellulose diaphragm). It's true I haven't heard it, but I am hopeful and even optimistic due to my wish list of blending the best qualities of those headphones into one sold at a median price point, and it's possible this may check off that list for me. Realistically, adding up the elements of those won't sound like any one of those headphones, nor am I expecting a flagship killer for just a couple bucks, but it's ok to hope for a nice balance.

I would be absolutely surprised and crushed if this was bad. But I feel there's a good chance it could be good, or even great. Despite my name, I don't think I'll feel "meh " about this no matter what, haha.

Sony made some real innovative stuff.

this kind of has the same vibe as mdr-f1.

IIRC someone on here put the mdr-cd1000 drivers into them, which I believe is biocellulose as well.

nice to see the design come to fruition.

One thing I am curious about is whether it has the ability to be pad rolled, as that would allow people to tweak if the original is not their cuppa tea.

And no reason to think just b/c it will be mid tier, it cannot slay a Giant.

That mdr-f1 would've been the bee's knees if it had a hinge system like akg1000 so the driver angle could be adjusted

I'm sure it would be no easy feat to engineer a hinge, but if spaceships can be built i don't see why not. I thought the new composer headphone was going to be like that (with adjustable angle driver) but ... nope

and as a big fan of stax sigma, which has speaker right in front of ear, the concept of this this in dynamic driver form is fantastic

 

[Evshrug]

Sony made some real innovative stuff.



this kind of has the same vibe as mdr-f1.

IIRC someone on here put the mdr-cd1000 drivers into them, which I believe is biocellulose as well.

nice to see the design come to fruition.

One thing I am curious about is whether it has the ability to be pad rolled, as that would allow people to tweak if the original is not their cuppa tea.

And no reason to think just b/c it will be mid tier, it cannot slay a Giant.

That mdr-f1 would've been the bee's knees if it had a hinge system like akg1000 so the driver angle could be adjusted

I'm sure it would be no easy feat to engineer a hinge, but if spaceships can be built i don't see why not. I thought the new composer headphone was going to be like that (with adjustable angle driver) but ... nope

and as a big fan of stax sigma, which has speaker right in front of ear, the concept of this this in dynamic driver form is fantastic

Yes Sony really did! I've not heard the F1, but the MA-900 I heard was the last successor of that line from Sony with that same gap behind the ear. Magical mids, but the bass was lacking for electronic music or action movies. The driver is angled to match some ear angles, but not as "in front and angled" as the OAE1. I'm super curious.

 

[Menkau-ra]

I enjoyed the HD 800 I have with a few small component tweaks... I'm wearing one right now haha, powered by a Cavalli! Not every headphone song has to do Muse's "Undisclosed Desires" sub bass moments near the end, but I am happy enough with a slight EQ bump for that song to just make them a little more apparent. Nothing major; something similar to iFi's XBass (and I liked their XSpace effect too), though I don't own one of their amps.

EQ is not exactly the same… It’s like EQ’ing Susvara on A90, if you know what I mean. LOL.
On SGP1 the HD800S/HD650’s low end goes low and most importantly it’s controlled.

 

[SHAMuuu]

Yes Sony really did! I've not heard the F1, but the MA-900 I heard was the last successor of that line from Sony with that same gap behind the ear. Magical mids, but the bass was lacking for electronic music or action movies. The driver is angled to match some ear angles, but not as "in front and angled" as the OAE1. I'm super curious.

The F1 is probably the most comfortable over ear out there. Feather light, and probably best suited for mindless browsing and light listening on youtube and what not.

and then you have nutters putting the th900 driver into the ad-500x, so another angled bio option.

If there are people who don't like the sound, that would not be surprising.

But I cannot help but wonder how easily the driver comes out as opposed to being glued in for example.

.. then you will have the tweakers drooling to maybe slip in other 50mm drivers in.

that is the WILDEST angle in existence. Really blew my mind seeing it like that. Beautiful.

 

[Rob80b]

The poster I was responding to described "pretty metal and wood cups" with overly safe tunings. I found this to be condescending and dismissive,

That would be me, but for what I personally want a headphone to be I find it mostly true. But I wasn’t trying to be condescending nor dismissive, just an old guy who’s been in the hobby for over 50 years expressing his observations on the current state of the audio hobby in general, retrospectively speaking.
That’s not to say there are not a lot of exciting things happening out there.
But all romanticizing aside I really do hope the OAE1, and, yes I was previously addressing Axel “xlcans” directly, really does bring something new and interesting with regards to headphone listening.