[drummerman1]

But maybe it's a truly atrocious peak. :/

?

 

[Rob80b]

To me the HD650 is my favorite headphone regardless ...............
I’m still not sure if OAE 1 can replace it. But that would be the first candidate.

The HD650 has indeed etched its place in the annals of time and there are more than enough in circulation to last us for decades but do not believe Axel's OAE-1 is geared as a replacement at all, again all circumstance, but personally I'm hoping it is something new and different altogether and those looking for an evolution of the hd600/650 signature will surely be disappointed or not????

 

[Rob80b]

They were not even closed to impressed

No, they were not. Though sometimes I think the dividing line between good and bad gets impossibly narrow for some reviewers.

Believe it comes down to mind set and expectations, if one is stuck on a subjective ideal the brain is a lot less open to alternative presentations to what a headphone is supposed to or could sound like, this also applies to the appreciation of different art forms and music. The current prolific use of EQ at the user end has also made many less tolerant or acceptable of any deviations, again from the subjective ideal, or from published targets. Can't speak for Axel but from previous recent endeavours, the HD820 for one, some get it and many don't where it has been noted as being wonky or unacceptable in its frequency portrayal, that was indeed my initial impression on 1st listen but today it's one of my go to for musical enjoyment.
So are the initial reports all hearsay, really cannot say one way or another, hopefully we will find out sooner than later.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

Believe it comes down to mind set and expectations, if one is stuck on a subjective ideal the brain is a lot less open to alternative presentations to what a headphone is supposed to or could sound like, this also applies to the appreciation of different art forms and music. The current prolific use of EQ at the user end has also made many less tolerant or acceptable of any deviations, again from the subjective ideal, or from published targets. Can't speak for Axel but from previous recent endeavours, the HD820 for one, some get it and many don't where it has been noted as being wonky or unacceptable in its frequency portrayal, that was indeed my initial impression on 1st listen but today it's one of my go to for musical enjoyment.
So are the initial reports all hearsay, really cannot say one way or another, hopefully we will find out sooner than later.

Said to have improved from its last tuning so it’s heading the right direction. Still it’s a tough spot for the phone as it’s pedigree, Grell, have set the bar even higher.

 

[zilax002]

Believe it comes down to mind set and expectations, if one is stuck on a subjective ideal the brain is a lot less open to alternative presentations to what a headphone is supposed to or could sound like, this also applies to the appreciation of different art forms and music. The current prolific use of EQ at the user end has also made many less tolerant or acceptable of any deviations, again from the subjective ideal, or from published targets. Can't speak for Axel but from previous recent endeavours, the HD820 for one, some get it and many don't where it has been noted as being wonky or unacceptable in its frequency portrayal, that was indeed my initial impression on 1st listen but today it's one of my go to for musical enjoyment.
So are the initial reports all hearsay, really cannot say one way or another, hopefully we will find out sooner than later.

You make a good point.

Personally I think the idea of EQing every headphone to a target to be rather at odds with collecting multiple s in the first place.

You wouldn't buy ten identical watches (or modify them to look identical), would you?

Not that I'm against EQ. I use it! But if you don't appreciate variations in frequency response and presentation in the first place (or have a very narrow ability to appreciate things outside strict bounds) it seems rather puzzling to be in the hobby at all.

Food for thought, I suppose.

 

[Shane D]

You make a good point.

Personally I think the idea of EQing every headphone to a target to be rather at odds with collecting multiple s in the first place.

You wouldn't buy ten identical watches (or modify them to look identical), would you?

Not that I'm against EQ. I use it! But if you don't appreciate variations in frequency response and presentation in the first place (or have a very narrow ability to appreciate things outside strict bounds) it seems rather puzzling to be in the hobby at all.

Food for thought, I suppose.

I have always thought the same thing. The individual would always aim for their personal preferences. If you like a solid bass, love mids even more and are not fussy about treble that is how you will EQ every model.
Then you just end up with four/six/eight/etc. rough versions of the same sound.

I should mention that I add a touch of bass boost to almost every headphone when using my iFi amp.

 

[zilax002]

I have always thought the same thing. The individual would always aim for their personal preferences. If you like a solid bass, love mids even more and are not fussy about treble that is how you will EQ every model.
Then you just end up with four/six/eight/etc. rough versions of the same sound.

I should mention that I add a touch of bass boost to almost every headphone when using my iFi amp.

I do the same, usually closer to the sub-bass where the extension drops off in most headphones and adding a boost doesn't make the boost muddy at all, just more present. But I tend to make minor tweaks elsewhere while preserving the headphone's characteristics and not trying to make it match a target to a T.

 

[Tachyon88]

Not an audio engineer, but AFAIK, multiple things affect soundstage , driver size , driver angle, openness of the cups & frequency response.
I think with HD 800S the size of the driver was bigger and they also tried to tamper with the frequency response to increase the soundstage. But once Dan Clark from DCA said that if you reduce the amplitude of a certain portion of the bass region you get a bigger soundstage but the sound becomes diffuse and lacks body. I think on one hand the drivers in OAE 1 are more angled and further, the cups are more open but on the other hand the frequency response is not compromised and the drivers are smaller (40 mm circular vs 56 mm ring) . Thus it has a big soundstage with an uncompromised frequency response, just that the soundstage may not be as big as the HD 800S.

I hope the smaller driver accompanied with the more open structure has a cleaner CSD plot and lower distortion.

I eq my HD800s to HT and I don't think the sound stage goes anywhere. I think the biggest contributing factors is the physical design.

 

[Evshrug]

No, they were not. Though sometimes I think the dividing line between good and bad gets impossibly narrow for some reviewers. Perhaps understandably when you've heard hundreds of headphones. But DMS implying he'd enjoy the headphone if you removed one "treble peak" gets a bit of an eyebrow raise from me. I don't tend to find a couple peaks enough to ruin a headphone for me. But maybe it's a truly atrocious peak. :/

I dunno, I like DMS a lot, and I think he would try his best to ignore that the grell headphones aren’t being sold at headphones.com for now, but first impressions (*at a show) are different than long term. At the end of the day, I don’t know what it sounds like, yet, but I want to hear for myself and I trust Axel Grell.

I’m with @Rob80b and @zilax002 , I have more than one headphone because I enjoy different flavors. When I started my HiFi journey, I had an ideal sound in mind (and had never heard of a “target frequency response curve” yet) and was chasing a holy grail one headphone that emphasized most and performed best my favorite things most of all… that looked like a trajectory of Audio Technica AD700 to AKG Q701 to HD 700 and finally HD 800. From impressions I’d read, I thought the HD 650 was very colored, probably the most colored out of the “classic trio” K701/DT880/HD650. What surprised me was when I finally DID hear the HD 650 for myself, it was nowhere near as extreme as other people made it out to be. Rather, it was pleasant; and once I got used to it I got into that not-listening-to-the-headphone, “Woah I’ve been listening to music for HOW MANY hours?!” state of being.

So yeah, I like the HD 800, but I also like the HD 650, the HD 660S, Fostex TH-X00 (my bio-dyna driver headphone), Fostex T50RP mkIII, my vintage Stax SR-X mkIII (except for the bad comfort!), Audeze Morpheus, etc. There’s very few headphones I haven’t agreed with (if you need to know my personal preferences, nothing against the companies but I don’t like the Spirit Torino, and the DT 880 makes my ears ring, possibly because my ears resonate in the upper mids too much), it’s more likely that I don’t like an amplifier.

 

[Tachyon88]

You make a good point.

Personally I think the idea of EQing every headphone to a target to be rather at odds with collecting multiple s in the first place.

You wouldn't buy ten identical watches (or modify them to look identical), would you?

Not that I'm against EQ. I use it! But if you don't appreciate variations in frequency response and presentation in the first place (or have a very narrow ability to appreciate things outside strict bounds) it seems rather puzzling to be in the hobby at all.

Food for thought, I suppose.

I do this and all the HP keep their unique attributes.

 

[Evshrug]

Edit: double post

 

[zilax002]

I dunno, I like DMS a lot, and I think he would try his best to ignore that the grell headphones aren’t being sold at headphones.com for now, but first impressions (*at a show) are different than long term. At the end of the day, I don’t know what it sounds like, yet, but I want to hear for myself and I trust Axel Grell.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply what DMS said wasn't authentic or had anything to do with headphones.com

I think all the headphones.com (or Headphone Show, to be more specific) guys seem like great people that aren't afraid to criticize things based on their honest opinion, regardless of whether it's sold on their site or not. I just picked up the Drop DCA Aeon Closed X, for example, and they had positive things to say about it despite the fact they can't sell it. Same with the Elex, which they sell now, but was a Drop exclusive until very recently.

Rather, my impression is that the farther down the rabbit hole reviewers go, so to speak, the more "picky" they can be about certain things. Things that might ruin the headphone for them, though it may not ruin the headphone for many of us. This is just my opinion and observation. Though I should know, as someone who can be far too obsessive/focused about flaws in things that, in the scheme of things, aren't that big of a deal.

And they're also reviewers. So in some sense you can say it's their job to be more critical of headphones than us enthusiasts might. Though I hope they will review the OAE1, give their honest impressions, and share some EQ advice to address the issues they see with it.

Sidenote: @Evshrug I was comparing headphones the other night and thought "why don't I listen to something with binaural audio and see how that compares" and I believe I came across a TIDAL playlist you created.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

my impression is that the farther down the rabbit hole reviewers go, so to speak, the more "picky" they can be about certain things.

The more their reviews are influenced by their personal preference more than anything.

 

[Nomax]

I always find it funny......when a model isn't even on the market yet and lots of people start speculating again...and again...and again
(So just let us surprise you...also from my side when the time comes)

NOMAX

PS.lol

 

[javertim]

I have no distributor affiliation and REALLY wanted to like the Grell headphone when I tried it at NYC CanJam, but I was let down, too.