[ear8dmg]

I found that DH renders a convincing 'out of head' experience, rather like listening to 5.1 speakers. CMSS-3D is OK for direction, especially to the rear, but I'm not likely to forget I'm wearing headphones with it.

As CMSS-3D headphone is HTRF based, it will sound better for some individuals than others though. I'm currently experimenting with using an external Dolby Headpone receiver (SU-DH1) with X-Fi. I think it's much better than either an X-Fi on its own, or DH on a Xonar. Having said that, it's turning out to be a pain to get running. Currently messing about with different drivers and X-Fi cards. If I don't resolve the issues I'll be keeping my Xonar D2.

 

[neo-fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I found that DH renders a convincing 'out of head' experience, rather like listening to 5.1 speakers. CMSS-3D is OK for direction, especially to the rear, but I'm not likely to forget I'm wearing headphones with it.

So you're saying the DH sounds more realistic? Should I then pick DH over CMSS-3D? Does this choice affect what headphones are used?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif As CMSS-3D headphone is HTRF based, it will sound better for some individuals than others though.

I had some troubles finding this HTRF acronym, until I got lucky and then realised you've made typo. So HRTF=head-related transfer function, this makes sense after reading wikipedia's article. Isn't this similar how humans perceive sounds, right?
But then a question arised: How is the same thing done in DH?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm currently experimenting with using an external Dolby Headpone receiver (SU-DH1) with X-Fi. I think it's much better than either an X-Fi on its own, or DH on a Xonar. Having said that, it's turning out to be a pain to get running. Currently messing about with different drivers and X-Fi cards. If I don't resolve the issues I'll be keeping my Xonar D2.

So you're trying to get both DH and CMSS-3D here?

 

[Emtezetwo]

CMMS-3D Headphone sounds like garbage to my ears(which are no gold plated hifi ears that is!) It changes completely the tone of the audio, taking all the details away.

Dolby Headphone on the other hand sounds great, it does just what it should, simulate surround(or just two channel, or even mono) speaker listening. I dont hear any loss of detail, or any change in the tonal of the audio. This is with Sennheiser HD650 phones, but then again with HD595 Dolby Headphone doesnt sound good at all, everything sound very flat and not really out of head, CMSS-3d HP being even worse.

Seeing that you mostly play Source-engine games, which uses its own internal DSP effects to simulate room acoustics etc, you wont get any benefit from the complete EAX support of Forte.

On the other hand, games that use EAX effects properly sound very good with it. For example: Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, Mafia and Manhunt, they sound just fantastic, adding to the athmosphere of the game.

I only own the Forte, so i cant comment on the SQ of the STX, but i suppose it wont lose to the forte.

Again, its your ears, which choose what sounds better. Every human have its own personal way to receive sound, so its very subjective thing(which is the reason why all the BS arguing arises in the hi-fi world)

I like the Dolby Headphone(so much indeed, that i wont listen music without it, except if its binaural recording ofcourse!) very much, but i have only used it through software(with DH wrapper in foobar2000 and with Cyberlink audio decoder in Media Player Classic[watching videos]) so i cant comment how the hardware based DH sounds, but it really should sound just the same(if not better)

I would really like the hardware based DH (which Xonar offers) but then again i like the EAX very much too in the before mentioned games, so its kinda a hard decision. I ended up with Forte, because it was cheaper and i did not have heard DH before buying it. Maybe a good thing, it might done the choosing that bit harder.

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo-fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you're saying the DH sounds more realistic? Should I then pick DH over CMSS-3D? Does this choice affect what headphones are used?

I find headphone synergy is very important. Because CMSS gives me little impression of sound in front of the head, it helps to have a frontal headstage in headphones. So something like an ATH-AD700 or HD555 with angled drivers would work well for me. The CMSS-3D HTRF suits some people well so they do hear something out front with most headphones. Dolby headphone works better with most headphones for most people.

The thing that really bugs me about CMSS-3D headphone is the loss of fidelity though. It's horrendous for music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo-fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif had some troubles finding this HTRF acronym, until I got lucky and then realised you've made typo. So HRTF=head-related transfer function, this makes sense after reading wikipedia's article. Isn't this similar how humans perceive sounds, right? But then a question arised: How is the same thing done in DH?

Not sure, but Dolby says it just uses signal processing not HTRF - Dolby - Dolby Headphone Specifications

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo-fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif you're trying to get both DH and CMSS-3D here?

Not really. There are some EAX features that are missing with Xonar. It's those that I'm after. The most important are MacroFX, which gives more accurate positioning for sounds closer to the listener, and the Elevation Filter. These can be enabled for games that don't support higher EAX levels. Strictly speaking I think they're CMSS technologies but they can be enabled for multichannel speakers as well as headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emtezetwo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would really like the hardware based DH (which Xonar offers) but then again i like the EAX very much too in the before mentioned games, so its kinda a hard decision. I ended up with Forte, because it was cheaper and i did not have heard DH before buying it. Maybe a good thing, it might done the choosing that bit harder.

I would suggest what I'm doing then. Just experimenting with an X-Fi XtremeMusic with optical out to Victor SU-DH1. Unfortunately it's causing me problems with 4GB RAM but if I knock it down to 3GB all is well and it sounds fantastic. I'll be swapping in a Prelude shortly, which I've been able to get to run with 4GB before. Hopefully that should do the trick.

Both my Xonar D2 and the SU-DH1 sound much better than the Foobar2000 plugins. I did an A/B a few months ago and if I thought the Foobar version was any good at all I'd have got rid of the Xonar D2 then.

About time someone did an X-Fi with built in Dolby Headphone.

 

[neo-fi]

Good reply Emtezetwo, It's really hard to decide, it's like arguing about food and its taste

everyone comes with their own opinion.

Also the Essence STX can emulate EAX 5 and fully supports it up to 2, and since EAX stands only for environmental audio extensions it really doesn't do much for sound positoning.

And since I haven't got any prior 5.1 nor 7.1 experience I guess IF I go with Essence STX it will still sound greater than my on-board Realtek.
Essence has some nice advantages over Forte though, such as EMI-shield, it draws power directly from PSU, better components, better SNR, etc...
So atm, the scale is leaning towards Xonar Essence STX.

 

[Emtezetwo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would suggest what I'm doing then. Just experimenting with an X-Fi XtremeMusic with optical out to Victor SU-DH1. Unfortunately it's causing me problems with 4GB RAM but if I knock it down to 3GB all is well and it sounds fantastic. I'll be swapping in a Prelude shortly, which I've been able to get to run with 4GB before. Hopefully that should do the trick. Both my Xonar D2 and the SU-DH1 sound much better than the Foobar2000 plugins. I did an A/B a few months ago and if I thought the Foobar version was any good at all I'd have got rid of the Xonar D2 then. About time someone did an X-Fi with built in Dolby Headphone.

Yeah, i been looking into those stand-alone DH encoders, but havent found them anywhere locally. Isnt that SU-DH1 battery operated, if i remember correctly? Youre saying that it sounds better than software based DH? Might have to hunt down one.

 

[neo-fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find headphone synergy is very important. Because CMSS gives me little impression of sound in front of the head, it helps to have a frontal headstage in headphones. So something like an ATH-AD700 or HD555 with angled drivers would work well for me. The CMSS-3D HTRF suits some people well so they do hear something out front with most headphones. Dolby headphone works better with most headphones for most people. The thing that really bugs me about CMSS-3D headphone is the loss of fidelity though. It's horrendous for music. Not sure, but Dolby says it just uses signal processing not HTRF - Dolby - Dolby Headphone Specifications Not really. There are some EAX features that are missing with Xonar. It's those that I'm after. The most important are MacroFX, which gives more accurate positioning for sounds closer to the listener, and the Elevation Filter. These can be enabled for games that don't support higher EAX levels. Strictly speaking I think they're CMSS technologies but they can be enabled for multichannel speakers as well as headphones.

Again, some points for Essence STX.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif About time someone did an X-Fi with built in Dolby Headphone.

Wonder if Auzentech is planning to release any product like that in near future, let's say in few months?

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emtezetwo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, i been looking into those stand-alone DH encoders, but havent found them anywhere locally. Isnt that SU-DH1 battery operated, if i remember correctly? Youre saying that it sounds better than software based DH? Might have to hunt down one.

The American JVC SU-DH1 is battery operated. I have a Japanese Victor version. It has a DC in 3v slot.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo-fi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, some points for Essence STX. Wonder if Auzentech is planning to release any product like that in near future, let's say in few months?

If your talking about X-fi based card I can't see it as the X-fi chip has headphone technology through CMSS. Not suggesting which is better just saying adding DH to these cards would just be redundant features.
IIRC, this it the reason they gave to the public when they released the Prelude 7.1.
Some of Auzentech other cards have DH....such as the X-Meridian 7.1 and they just released two new cards. Which may have DH also.

 

[genclaymore]

Thats why I cant stand CMSS3D any more right after I used Dolby headphones in games, I used it when I had another computer with my dad's X-fi in it. I couldnt stand what it did to the sound while gaming.

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your talking about X-fi based card I can't see it as the X-fi chip has headphone technology through CMSS. Not suggesting which is better just saying adding DH to these cards would just be redundant features. IIRC, this it the reason they gave to the public when they released the Prelude 7.1. Some of Auzentech other cards have DH....such as the X-Meridian 7.1 and they just released two new cards. Which may have DH also.

Yep. Auzentech stated that Dolby Headphone and Dolby Virtual Speaker weren't included on the Prelude due to "feature overlap" with Creative Technology.

At the moment the only way to get DH in games with X-Fi is an external receiver.

I don't really think we'll ever see DH on an X-Fi card officially.

 

[neo-fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your talking about X-fi based card I can't see it as the X-fi chip has headphone technology through CMSS. Not suggesting which is better just saying adding DH to these cards would just be redundant features. IIRC, this it the reason they gave to the public when they released the Prelude 7.1. Some of Auzentech other cards have DH....such as the X-Meridian 7.1 and they just released two new cards. Which may have DH also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif About time someone did an X-Fi with built in Dolby Headphone.

This I meant. And yes too many features especially of same kind is redundant indeed.

 

[neo-fi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep. Auzentech stated that Dolby Headphone and Dolby Virtual Speaker weren't included on the Prelude due to "feature overlap" with Creative Technology. At the moment the only way to get DH in games with X-Fi is an external receiver. I don't really think we'll ever see DH on an X-Fi card officially.

Well then, I guess this is wrapped up then!

I'll take the Xonar Essence STX.

 

[neo-fi]

Mailed my order of Xonar Essence STX today. Big thanks to everyone for helping me to decide!

I thought meanwhile we could discuss which is best PCIe-slot to insert soundcard in? Or does this really matter at all since Essence comes with EMI-shield?
My motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/...t-ud5p_big.jpg

 

[ROBSCIX]

Basically with todays motherboards you have to take what you can get!!
Especially when it comes to PCI-E X1 slots.
You can use other free PCI-E slots.

So many motherboards these days have such bad slot positioning.
That board is OK as you have a few PCI-E X1 as for the one right at the top what were they thinking there?