Aune T1 USB Tube DAC+ SS Amp Discussion Thread ***See first post for FAQ--Updated on 02/14/15***

[Hansotek]

 
So guys, uh.... I was thinking, is it possible to solder new opamp to the T1 amp section?
Kinda want to try it but not sure except if anyone has tried it.

It already has a Burr-Brown in it, what were you thinking about replacing it with?  I think there is only one opamp and that means it is a Dual DIP.  Maybe try a Muse01 or Muse02?  I personally like the Muse01 better than the 02, but others prefer it the other way.  As far as I know nobody has ever tried it, or at least been successful and told us about it haha.  I never bothered even thinking about it because the DAC part of the T1 is by far the strongest part of the unit.  I am assuming you have already upgraded the caps.

If you are going to do it, what would be REALLY nice is if you put an opamp socket in there, but I'm not sure how you would go about doing that since that is a surface mount component, but maybe it is possible? lol

Yes. It sounds ALMOST exactly like my Burson/ODAC/Wyrd setup. If they were perfectly volume matched, it would be hard to tell the difference.


The Burson setup is just a little bit cleaner. Punch and decay on the HA-160 are extremely precise. The HA-160 also does a little better job of seperating images panned within the first 20-25 degrees left or right of center and allows a clearer view of the top and bottom of sound images. However, I've only tested this with the HE500, so far. The HE500 exhibits these same issues with ODAC>Lyr as well, FWIW.

Considering the tube plays zero role in the amp you should get the exact same results using the stock tube or using the Line In and taking the DAC/Tube Buffer completely out of the equation.  If what you are saying was true, I would own a lot of stock in Aune Audio (assuming they are a public company) if they could design an amp they sell for $8 that could compete with amps that cost 50-80x more.  I have tried two different amps with the T1 and the improvements with both are far beyond what any ultra high end tube can offer vs. a solid NOS tube.

I don't doubt the Miniwatt is a great tube, I already knew that, but telling people to spend the cash on a $90-$120 tube and expect the same improvement of a $80-$100 amp upgrade with a $20 NOS tube like the GE Smokie is misleading at best.

I'm not saying the amp changes, I'm saying the net sound of the DAC and amp together sound similar to the other combo.

 

[Hansotek]

I only have 4 tubes, and use an amperex 7308 pretty much exclusively, but ncu is right, by far the biggest upgrade was my Asgard 2. I was a little disappointed with the t1 no matter which tube I used with my hd580's, but when I hooked up the Asgard 2, I was like OK, now we're talking! After adding the amp, I could honestly live with any of my tubes, including the electro harmonix it came with. That being said, I still want to try a Dario lol

That has been my experience too, with the exception of this specific tube. I've never been a fan of the T1's amp section. For some reason the Dario creates this odd synergy with this crappy little $8 CMOY and the HE500s.
 
Let me be absolutely clear: I ALMOST DIDN'T EVEN PLUG IN TO THE T1's AMP SECTION DURING TESTS. That is how little I think of the amp section. I only tried it because I figured somebody on this thread would ask about it. And I was absolutely FLOORED by what I heard. It was almost identical in sound to my reference setup. I must have switched back and forth 20 times. I never expected that tube to make such an impact on the Aune combo. For whatever reason, it just works.
 
Again, a notable caveat: I've only had time to sample with the HE500, thus far. So keep your pants on! Headphones play a big role in synergy too. I will report back when I try some more HPs with it.

 

[mikoss]

My experience is the Miniwatt + T1 at 0db gain with cap upgrade is very detailed, with nice tonal balance and great imaging.

I have found better amps will bring out more bass, and more power... To me it almost comes down to presentation. I don't feel that the T1's amp is lacking enough to warrant an external amp, with HD-650s.

Also, I am sorry but I found the GE Smokies I bought NOS sound crappy with the HD-650. They're laid back as it is, but I just got a murky, wooly sound compared to Amperex Holland tubes. FWIW there are people who also say the Russian tubes sound better than Miniwatts, and I can believe they do with their setup... I personally found them intolerable.

 

[Hansotek]

Wow. Quick first impression with the Dario/Aune and the Beyerdynamic T1 on the 3 setups:
 
Very similar overall to my HE500 impressions. The Aune's amp displays a little more sibilance than the other setups, but the Dario really, really smooths it out compared to other tubes I've tried. HA-160 is the most energetic sounding, but the Aune isn't far behind. Again, they sound very similar with this tube somehow. The Aune>Lyr sounds the most analog, just as before... music just flows from it effortlessly. The Burson is still my favorite for the cleanliness and punch, but the sound isn't that much different.

 

[mikoss]

  Considering the tube plays zero role in the amp you should get the exact same results using the stock tube or using the Line In and taking the DAC/Tube Buffer completely out of the equation.  If what you are saying was true, I would own a lot of stock in Aune Audio (assuming they are a public company) if they could design an amp they sell for $8 that could compete with amps that cost 50-80x more.  I have tried two different amps with the T1 and the improvements with both are far beyond what any ultra high end tube can offer vs. a solid NOS tube.

I don't understand what you mean... the tubes change the sound of the amp like an eq... I've found they completely transform the ability of the amp to produce quality sounding music, or garbage. 
 
It's like the tubes in my WA2... it sounds like garbage with crappy tubes, and sounds better with other tubes... the amp's sound signature is based on which tubes are in it.
 
The power output of the amp and distortion are probably set in stone (at least for the T1), but they were measured by someone in this forum and found to be decent...

 

[Hansotek]

  Wow. Quick first impression with the Dario/Aune and the Beyerdynamic T1 on the 3 setups:
 
Very similar overall to my HE500 impressions. The Aune's amp displays a little more sibilance than the other setups, but the Dario really, really smooths it out compared to other tubes I've tried. HA-160 is the most energetic sounding, but the Aune isn't far behind. Again, they sound very similar with this tube somehow. The Aune>Lyr sounds the most analog, just as before... music just flows from it effortlessly. The Burson is still my favorite for the cleanliness and punch, but the sound isn't that much different.

 
Beyer T1 impressions update: the reference Burson/ODAC setup definitely starts pulling ahead of the Dario/Aune when I turn up the volume past normal listening levels. The clarity/separation/detail difference definitely comes into play and the bass starts to lose body as the headphone demands more power. The Aune's $8 CMOY just can't keep up. Back at normal listening levels, it's much closer.  

 

[SirMarc]

Slightly off topic, and maybe wrong thread lol, but I just recently had my vintage thorens td 145 refurbished and properly set up by a turntable guru. Plugged into my vintage dynaco integrated amp with my hd580's, it sounds awesome. I haven't listened to my t1-Asgard 2 set up in a while. If any of you have an old Turntable collecting dust in the attic, get it out, clean it up and give it a listen with your headphones, you'll thank me later...

 

[Hansotek]

Slightly off topic, and maybe wrong thread lol, but I just recently had my vintage thorens td 145 refurbished and properly set up by a turntable guru. Plugged into my vintage dynaco integrated amp with my hd580's, it sounds awesome. I haven't listened to my t1-Asgard 2 set up in a while. If any of you have an old Turntable collecting dust in the attic, get it out, clean it up and give it a listen with your headphones, you'll thank me later...

I guess Schiit makes a phono preamp called the Mani now, if you want to get more use out of that Asgard...

Are you still using the Audio Technica cartridge? How did that work out? Or did you get that old Blue Point one fixed?

 

[SirMarc]

The at 440mla sounds really good. I wish I could get the Mani, would like to hear how the Asgard sounds with vinyl, but I have some hearing loss in my right ear and I need a balance knob. Did you get the Turntable yet?

 

[Hansotek]

The at 440mla sounds really good. I wish I could get the Mani, would like to hear how the Asgard sounds with vinyl, but I have some hearing loss in my right ear and I need a balance knob. Did you get the Turntable yet?

Kinda forgot about it until your post a few minutes ago. Now it's on my mind...

 

[NCSUZoSo]

  I don't understand what you mean... the tubes change the sound of the amp like an eq... I've found they completely transform the ability of the amp to produce quality sounding music, or garbage. 
 
It's like the tubes in my WA2... it sounds like garbage with crappy tubes, and sounds better with other tubes... the amp's sound signature is based on which tubes are in it.
 
The power output of the amp and distortion are probably set in stone (at least for the T1), but they were measured by someone in this forum and found to be decent...

 
That is changing the sound of the DAC output signal, not the actual amp operation.  I don't see how that is confusing at all.
 
The amp is going to operate completely the same with the stock tube or with a CCa pinched waist, it makes no difference.  Of course the sound that comes out will be much different, but amps are pretty basic in what they do and the DAC doesn't affect that in any shape or form.
 
If you want I can scan in some pages of my old EE200 book on amplifiers, it is a mixture of math and art.
 

Also, I am sorry but I found the GE Smokies I bought NOS sound crappy with the HD-650. They're laid back as it is, but I just got a murky, wooly sound compared to Amperex Holland tubes. FWIW there are people who also say the Russian tubes sound better than Miniwatts, and I can believe they do with their setup... I personally found them intolerable.

 
I already posted earlier that it was an example of an affordable tube ($10-$15) that sounds very good for the money for the majority of users.  Of course there will be combos that people would rather use something like a JAN Philips (another affordable one).  Why are you bring up Amperex Holland tubes in comparison to a $10 tube?  Of course the Amperex is going to sound better all around, it cost 5 to 6 times more at least for a reason.

 

[mikoss]

The amp is going to operate completely the same with the stock tube or with a CCa pinched waist, it makes no difference.  
 
Of course the sound that comes out will be much different, but amps are pretty basic in what they do and the DAC doesn't affect that in any shape or form.
 
Considering the tube plays zero role in the amp you should get the exact same results using the stock tube or using the Line In and taking the DAC/Tube Buffer completely out of the equation. 

 
I think we're on the same page... what I don't understand is what you're trying to tell the reviewer. He said the amp sounded great with a different tube, and we both agreed the tubes affect the quality of sound coming out of the amp. The amp's properties haven't improved, it has always been capable of producing great sounding music, if the input is great sounding.
 
At the end of the day, the tube has improved the sound quality, which is what the review said. It also said the sound quality was improved enough that the T1's stock amp sounded very good and almost on par with more expensive amps, which I is what I have also found to be the case. I would not say this is the case using the stock tube, which is what I'm lead to believe from what you posted... just want to clarify for anyone who owns the T1 and wants to improve their sound without spending a lot of cash. $100 is really not that much to get an improvement that almost puts the T1 subjectively on par with $500 amps. I think that is a fair statement, no?
 
Also, Amperex Holland tubes do not cost 5-6 times as much, that is a hilarious statement. I recently purchased 6 A-frame Holland 6DJ8 PQ tubes for $72. They very regularly sell for less than $20 each. eg:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-TEKTRONIX-CHECKED-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-A-FRAME-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBES-TEST-STRONG-/191506730797
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-O-GETTER-6DJ8-ECC88-TUBES-TEST-STRONG/191506732407

 

[joeq70]

The last couple pages of discussion have been a bit convoluted and silly. The argument appears to essentially be this---what is the better upgrade for the money--about $100 for a tube or about a $100 for an amp. The answer to this question is simple: it depends. Also, we need to approach the question differently so our discussion is more useful for the people out there that look to this thread for advice.
 
 In a perfect world, you could listen to a couple dozen different NOS tubes and pick the one that sounds the best. In a perfect world, after finding your favorite tube, you could A/B the stock amp with dozens of different other amps ranging in value from $100 to infinity. Since we all generally have limited disposable income, we all try to figure out the shortest point between where we are with our setup where we want to be.Let's try to make maximizing the T1's potential as easy and inexpensive as possible.
 
1) First, the most important factor in this discussion: variables. There are so many variables---including different headphones, different ears, different years production between otherwise similar tubes. It all makes a difference. 
 
2) The tubes: There are a handful of tubes that seem to be consistently great performers for most who try them. These include the Amperex 7308 and Miniwatt E188CC that's been recently discussed, and others. Some of these tubes synergize so well with the headphones used and the stock T1 amp that a further upgrade of the amp is not immediately necessary. 
 
3) Upgrading the amp: In some cases, whether it be because of the specific headphones chosen or because of the tube chosen or a combination thereof, upgrading the amp to the T1 will yield greater improvement than upgrading the tube, and in such cases an amp upgrade should be the first priority. Choosing an amp, like a tube, can be tricky business, however, because all amps will do something to the sound to some extent. Some amps are clinical, some warm, some neutral, etc. Being able to identify what characteristics make a particular amp sound good within your setup is crucial in helping people decide which upgrade to spring for first.
 
4) In conclusion, if you want to take the relatively cheap Aune T1 and make it sound rather expensive and high end, then you need to take the time to figure out both the ideal tube and the ideal amp pairing for your particular headphones. One way to make the process easier for people is for those of us who have found success with their setup to state the following:
 
a) The headphone(s) used and whether you perceive them to be relatively warm, neutral, detailed, etc.
b) The tube used and what effect it has on the sound when used with the stock T1 amp
c)  The external amp used, if applicable, and how that amp changed the sound compared to when using the stock amp. If only the stock T1 amp is used, state your preferred gain setting.

 

[SirMarc]

Testing back and forth with my 32 ohm headphones,there is a small difference going through the Asgard 2, but a pretty substantial difference with my 300 ohm headphones. There seems to be more of a benefit rolling tubes with low impedance headphones. I don't think the amp in the t1 has enough current to really drive higher impedance headphones to their best. So moral of the story is you're probably OK just tube rolling if you have low impedance headphones, but if your phones are high impedance you'll definitely benefit from a higher quality more powerful amp

 

[joeq70]

Testing back and forth with my 32 ohm headphones,there is a small difference going through the Asgard 2, but a pretty substantial difference with my 300 ohm headphones. There seems to be more of a benefit rolling tubes with low impedance headphones. I don't think the amp in the t1 has enough current to really drive higher impedance headphones to their best. So moral of the story is you're probably OK just tube rolling if you have low impedance headphones, but if your phones are high impedance you'll definitely benefit from a higher quality more powerful amp

It's a fact that higher impedance phones and inefficient phones need more juice from an amp. But there is more to the story than that. 
 
 
Anyway, I'll start things off taking my own advice.
 
a) My headphones are Symphones Magnum V4s. They are 32 ohms and are driven pretty easily. They are a detailed and punchy sounding headphone with forward mids. Think Grado but much clearer and more intimate.
 
b) My favorite tube is the Philips Miniwatt E188CC. I tend to like tubes that have forwards mids because it accentuates the strengths of my headphones. The Miniwatt has just enough of the mids I like and is superior in every other respect to the other tubes I've used. Love it.
 
c) I use the stock amp but I've used many other amps. The stock amp is pretty neutral. I enjoy turning the gain off because it gives me more volume play and seems to improve dynamics for my headphones. Some higher priced amps I tried increased the soundstage and clarity. Some amps add just a bit extra punch to the bass which is nice. I haven't found an amp yet that is priced competitively enough and offers enough benefit to warrant a purchase. I am interested in trying some Schitt stuff, though. I'll have a chance to hear some in March.