Aune S17 pro

[Erick Muller]

Regarding the war in Ukraine, being in Poland I do not see it only from the prism of the media, I would not glorify everyone and everything that is happening there. We have several million refugees from Ukraine here, on the other hand, I know that people are still having a good time in Kiev and I think I know more about business, corruption and the heart of the matter of this war, but let's leave it. Because it should not matter in the assessment of this product.

Millions of ukrainians in poland alone or spread out in europe you mean?

I expect that Flux Labs, if it remains in ukraine will eventually move operations to the western part of the country, closer to the polish border, if not outright move into poland itself., if posible of course.

Regarding the quality of the sound between the S17 and the Mentor, it should be a definitively improvement over the S17. In a kind of related topic, my father recently got an earmen angel, he really likes portable amp/dacs for his headphone listening and I was surprise how powerful and full sounding it was, really comparable to a desktop amp, like really close, significantly more so than the usual Fiio amp/dacs that my father has, so if a portable amp/dac can get this close to my S17, then a dedicated HP amp like the Mentor should be a noticeable improvement.

The thing that you have to ask yourself is why do you need to get the Mentor if you're happy with your current setup?, unless it's to drive really difficult headphones like the Susvara or the Tungsten and you're not having any issues powering your current HP collection and future HP acquisitions, then you should better save the money or get a better DAC, like is my case imho.

 

[Majuto]

Millions of ukrainians in poland alone or spread out in europe you mean?

I expect that Flux Labs, if it remains in ukraine will eventually move operations to the western part of the country, closer to the polish border, if not outright move into poland itself., if posible of course.

Regarding the quality of the sound between the S17 and the Mentor, it should be a definitively improvement over the S17. In a kind of related topic, my father recently got an earmen angel, he really likes portable amp/dacs for his headphone listening and I was surprise how powerful and full sounding it was, really comparable to a desktop amp, like really close, significantly more so than the usual Fiio amp/dacs that my father has, so if a portable amp/dac can get this close to my S17, then a dedicated HP amp like the Mentor should be a noticeable improvement.

The thing that you have to ask yourself is why do you need to get the Mentor if you're happy with your current setup?, unless it's to drive really difficult headphones like the Susvara or the Tungsten and you're not having any issues powering your current HP collection and future HP acquisitions, then you should better save the money or get a better DAC, like is my case imho.

For evaluation we have objevtive measurements, other people's opinions and reviews, our tastes, ears and brain. If you read my last comment earlier today, you met my personal tastes and thoughts based also on other people's views, not so much objective measurements unless they have influenced other people's views. For me objective measurements are not so important.
I guess it's quite useless to try to figure out if Mentor is better amp than Aune. I think personal tastes and headphone synergy with amplifier are the crucial things here. That's why it might be problematic if you change your liked Aune for better Mentor.
Mentor propably is somewhar more detailed, it's bass articulation is a bit more solid, two mono stack is a powerhouse with bigger soundstage. Excellent properties for some headphones, like the Composer and He1000Stealth, but not for all imo, with which Aune is more enjoyable and immersive. That's synergy. So we have to try to define what we mean by better. I would use word propriate or better suitable, but the restrictive use of word better or best...well...doesn't necessarily be a very informative definition. It shines brightly in personal evaluations anyhow.

 

[MaxMini]

Millions of ukrainians in poland alone or spread out in europe you mean?

I expect that Flux Labs, if it remains in ukraine will eventually move operations to the western part of the country, closer to the polish border, if not outright move into poland itself., if posible of course.

Regarding the quality of the sound between the S17 and the Mentor, it should be a definitively improvement over the S17. In a kind of related topic, my father recently got an earmen angel, he really likes portable amp/dacs for his headphone listening and I was surprise how powerful and full sounding it was, really comparable to a desktop amp, like really close, significantly more so than the usual Fiio amp/dacs that my father has, so if a portable amp/dac can get this close to my S17, then a dedicated HP amp like the Mentor should be a noticeable improvement.

The thing that you have to ask yourself is why do you need to get the Mentor if you're happy with your current setup?, unless it's to drive really difficult headphones like the Susvara or the Tungsten and you're not having any issues powering your current HP collection and future HP acquisitions, then you should better save the money or get a better DAC, like is my case imho.

As I wrote, Mentor is not my cup of tea. The amplifier is beautiful, but the fully dual-mono design has its limitations, or to put it another way, its sonic signature.

When it comes to amps, it's all "show me your power section and I'll tell you who you are."
Therefore, in the next amplifier, FLux Labs will move away from two power transformers in favor of one, larger one. Not because the guys from Flux thought that two transformers were nonsense, but because they consciously want to move the sound towards something more massive, less clinical, more oriented towards synthesis than analysis.
That's why I'm curious how much of this cool ethereality of Mentor will remain in the new Flux amplifier, because only the new one will play, so to speak, in the Aune league and we will be able to compare apples to apples. I think we all know how it works, that it is impossible to physically generate sound with meat on bones and at the same time make the sound sources appear in hyperspace, at this level of amplifiers there is always something for something, i.e. always a compromise. Therefore, in this context, we must evaluate the Aune, which, having meat on bones, still generates very good stage spaciousness.

From the new Flux, as it will be twice as expensive as the Aune amplifier, I would expect greater transparency than the Aune. In terms of pure resolution it can at best match the Aune, because it is already above the perception of human hearing (90~120dB). Here I consciously separated transparency from resolution, because these are two correlated but different parameters. Clarity is a semi-subjective parameter, and resolution (SINAD) is strictly measurable.

 

[Majuto]

As I wrote, Mentor is not my cup of tea. The amplifier is beautiful, but the fully dual-mono design has its limitations, or to put it another way, its sonic signature.

When it comes to amps, it's all "show me your power section and I'll tell you who you are."
Therefore, in the next amplifier, FLux Labs will move away from two power transformers in favor of one, larger one. Not because the guys from Flux thought that two transformers were nonsense, but because they consciously want to move the sound towards something more massive, less clinical, more oriented towards synthesis than analysis.
That's why I'm curious how much of this cool ethereality of Mentor will remain in the new Flux amplifier, because only the new one will play, so to speak, in the Aune league and we will be able to compare apples to apples. I think we all know how it works, that it is impossible to physically generate sound with meat on bones and at the same time make the sound sources appear in hyperspace, at this level of amplifiers there is always something for something, i.e. always a compromise. Therefore, in this context, we must evaluate the Aune, which, having meat on bones, still generates very good stage spaciousness.

From the new Flux, as it will be twice as expensive as the Aune amplifier, I would expect greater transparency than the Aune. In terms of pure resolution it can at best match the Aune, because it is already above the perception of human hearing (90~120dB). Here I consciously separated transparency from resolution, because these are two correlated but different parameters. Clarity is a semi-subjective parameter, and resolution (SINAD) is strictly measurable.

I would say, with diplomacy, that I believe both Aune and Mentor are both exceptionally good headphone amplifiers within and over their price tags.
In an ideal world Aune and Flux had dealers in every country. In Finland we unfortunately don't have neither of them. So I bought Aune S 17Pro from Sweden quite solely based on Soundnews's Vitalie Sandu's review. It's fair to say that his review of Mentor is such, that I could buy also a Mentor without a blink of my eye. If one happens to have different kinds of headphones, imo Aune and Mentor easily could stand in the same rack offering more high quality perspectives into music.

 

[D1N0]

I am using my S17 as a pre-amp. So if I would go to the +1000 category I would just look for a Dedicated pre amp solution and keep the S17 as a head amp as soon as my neighbours start to complain about nightly spl's.

 

[Erick Muller]

For evaluation we have objevtive measurements, other people's opinions and reviews, our tastes, ears and brain. If you read my last comment earlier today, you met my personal tastes and thoughts based also on other people's views, not so much objective measurements unless they have influenced other people's views. For me objective measurements are not so important.
I guess it's quite useless to try to figure out if Mentor is better amp than Aune. I think personal tastes and headphone synergy with amplifier are the crucial things here. That's why it might be problematic if you change your liked Aune for better Mentor.
Mentor propably is somewhar more detailed, it's bass articulation is a bit more solid, two mono stack is a powerhouse with bigger soundstage. Excellent properties for some headphones, like the Composer and He1000Stealth, but not for all imo, with which Aune is more enjoyable and immersive. That's synergy. So we have to try to define what we mean by better. I would use word propriate or better suitable, but the restrictive use of word better or best...well...doesn't necessarily be a very informative definition. It shines brightly in personal evaluations anyhow.

I would tend to agree, specially given our tendencies, both personal and as a group to FOMO when a new, very hyped product comes to market, that's why I'm not so concern at the moment with upgrading my amp, it fills and drives all of my headphones really well and it sounds really good to me, tho I do want to upgrade my DAC at the moment in the hopes that I can enhance the sound quality of my system because I believe that my current DAC, or DACs that I have at my disposal are the bottleneck, and I think that's the route we have to follow, what can both subjectively and objectively improve your chain, sans Headphones of course.

The main reason I want to upgrade my DAC mainly has to do that a lot of people report really good soundstaging abilities on this amp, but I have not experience this to that degree, so I think is my current DAC which is simply holding my amp back to a degree... It could also be me and I'm one of those individuals that cannot perceive soundstage psychoacustics like others do, so at the end of the day, it's a gamble, and it could be a very expensive gamble that just doesn't play out as I expected.

 

[Majuto]

@Ichos reviewed both the mentor and the s17,
I wonder what his thoughts are.

I think Ichos is a very sympathetic reviewer, who merely points out the good and better properties of the gear he's reviewing. In this thread you can read perhaps his merely personal views (maybe not so meant for wider audiences).
If I understood right, he esteems Mentor at least technically above Aune.

 

[Majuto]

I would tend to agree, specially given our tendencies, both personal and as a group to FOMO when a new, very hyped product comes to market, that's why I'm not so concern at the moment with upgrading my amp, it fills and drives all of my headphones really well and it sounds really good to me, tho I do want to upgrade my DAC at the moment in the hopes that I can enhance the sound quality of my system because I believe that my current DAC, or DACs that I have at my disposal are the bottleneck, and I think that's the route we have to follow, what can both subjectively and objectively improve your chain, sans Headphones of course.

The main reason I want to upgrade my DAC mainly has to do that a lot of people report really good soundstaging abilities on this amp, but I have not experience this to that degree, so I think is my current DAC which is simply holding my amp back to a degree... It could also be me and I'm one of those individuals that cannot perceive soundstage psychoacustics like others do, so at the end of the day, it's a gamble, and it could be a very expensive gamble that just doesn't play out as I expected.

You seem to have Senn 800 S among your headphones. I haven't ever heard 800S, but it's famous for it bery wide and big soundstage. On the other hand I don't know many dacs so well that I'd dare to evaluate the dac's role in soundstage issue. Anyhow I'm tending to think so, that headphones role is biggest. Then comes headphone and amp together and finally headphone+amp+dac+cables.
One very exceptional model is Raal SR 1a or b ribbon headphone, which is said to sound more like loudspeakers with very big and special soundstage. It could be a reference, if you get a chance to test one.

 

[Erick Muller]

You seem to have Senn 800 S among your headphones. I haven't ever heard 800S, but it's famous for it bery wide and big soundstage. On the other hand I don't know many dacs so well that I'd dare to evaluate the dac's role in soundstage issue. Anyhow I'm tending to think so, that headphones role is biggest. Then comes headphone and amp together and finally headphone+amp+dac+cables.
One very exceptional model is Raal SR 1a or b ribbon headphone, which is said to sound more like loudspeakers with very big and special soundstage. It could be a reference, if you get a chance to test one.

I have relatively easy access to the HD800S, but it's not mine, but I can always take it out on loan from my father and I loan him my headphones in return, it's really cool to have a dad that shares your same enthusiasm for this hobby, I wish I could take on loan his two channel system tho but that's a tad more difficult.

The HD800S is definitively the more open sounding headphone I've had the pleasure of listening to, as well as the most competent sounding, I do have to EQ it somewhat specially with a really heavy bass shelf in order to make it more enjoyable to my ears, but the problem that I have with soundstage as often described, I have a hard time having that out-of-the-head experience and the sound expanding beyond the headphones as many people often describe typically for this kind of very wide sounding category of headphones, I'm always very aware that I'm listening to a pair of headphones and not, or at least not fully or close to something like a well put together stereo speaker system, it can sometimes happen to me with very specific parts of a limited range of songs, but it's not something that I would consider to be a consistent experience in my case.

Next week I'm going to be getting a Cayin RU7 and I plan to use it on my S17 to see if I can get some of that R2R goodness and maybe I will finally experience what people describe what soundstage really is, at least I hope to. I already tried feeding my Yuki to my S17 and it didn't gave me the results I wanted or expected, it wasn't that enjoyable tbh, I also got the opportunity to try out the earmen angel, at first it sounded great to my ears but yesterday that I got another chance to listen to it, I was not that impressive, probably need I little bit more time with it, it probably needs some burn in also, I'm not sure but it hasn't convince me yet, it sometimes has the ability to sound like a dedicated desktop HP amp like the S17 and truly impressive, specially for a portable device, and others is just another portable amp/dac not much different to the typical Fiio stuff but more expensive, hope it improves with time.

 

[Majuto]

I am using my S17 as a pre-amp. So if I would go to the +1000 category I would just look for a Dedicated pre amp solution and keep the S17 as a head amp as soon as my neighbours start to complain about nightly spl's.

If your neighbours read this, I can see small sweat drops on their foreheads. But seriously, it's definitely wise to invest in things with which you spare more time. If you prefer two-channels with loudspeakers, a good pre-amp is essential.
I had to consider music listening ways when we moved from a single house to multiapartment house with neighbours, about three years ago. It's then and after that when my headfi insanity began and got worse. I don't listen music with especially high volumes, but a certain level is needed for music to come really alive. If your neighbours don't share that view with loudspeakers, then you've got Aune in reserve.

 

[Erick Muller]

If your neighbours read this, I can see small sweat drops on their foreheads. But seriously, it's definitely wise to invest in things with which you spare more time. If you prefer two-channels with loudspeakers, a good pre-amp is essential.
I had to consider music listening ways when we moved from a single house to multiapartment house with neighbours, about three years ago. It's then and after that when my headfi insanity began and got worse. I don't listen music with especially high volumes, but a certain level is needed for music to come really alive. If your neighbours don't share that view with loudspeakers, then you've got Aune in reserve.

That's why you always have a bottle of whiskey on reserve when the neighbor comes to complain about the loud sound, you invite him in for a glass and you win him over, he might even start pestering you with PMs to turn up the volume of your speakers so he has an excuse to come over for another shot and listen to some good music and leave the nagging wive behind sulking and seething.

 

[Majuto]

I have relatively easy access to the HD800S, but it's not mine, but I can always take it out on loan from my father and I loan him my headphones in return, it's really cool to have a dad that shares your same enthusiasm for this hobby, I wish I could take on loan his two channel system tho but that's a tad more difficult.

The HD800S is definitively the more open sounding headphone I've had the pleasure of listening to, as well as the most competent sounding, I do have to EQ it somewhat specially with a really heavy bass shelf in order to make it more enjoyable to my ears, but the problem that I have with soundstage as often described, I have a hard time having that out-of-the-head experience and the sound expanding beyond the headphones as many people often describe typically for this kind of very wide sounding category of headphones, I'm always very aware that I'm listening to a pair of headphones and not, or at least not fully or close to something like a well put together stereo speaker system, it can sometimes happen to me with very specific parts of a limited range of songs, but it's not something that I would consider to be a consistent experience in my case.

Next week I'm going to be getting a Cayin RU7 and I plan to use it on my S17 to see if I can get some of that R2R goodness and maybe I will finally experience what people describe what soundstage really is, at least I hope to. I already tried feeding my Yuki to my S17 and it didn't gave me the results I wanted or expected, it wasn't that enjoyable tbh, I also got the opportunity to try out the earmen angel, at first it sounded great to my ears but yesterday that I got another chance to listen to it, I was not that impressive, probably need I little bit more time with it, it probably needs some burn in also, I'm not sure but it hasn't convince me yet, it sometimes has the ability to sound like a dedicated desktop HP amp like the S17 and truly impressive, specially for a portable device, and others is just another portable amp/dac not much different to the typical Fiio stuff but more expensive, hope it improves with time.

I've always admired conductors' ability to hear small things happening in a big symphony orchestra. I guess many of them are exceptional individuals, but they have also practiced their hearing ability vastly compared to many other people. I want to believe this ability, in some respect at least, is possible for almost all of us, if we want. It needs concentration and lots of time, but it's possible. If conductors' cerebrial cortex is visualized, there most propably can be seen structural deviations compared to mediocre people. If one really concentrates in what one hears, the experience is different and deeper. Unfortunately our multitasking loaded time doesn't support this concentrated hearing ability. I'm a sad example of this when I usually read and listen music the same time. But if I want a closer relation with music, I only listen.

 

[Erick Muller]

I've always admired conductors' ability to hear small things happening in a big symphony orchestra. I guess many of them are exceptional individuals, but they have also practiced their hearing ability vastly compared to many other people. I want to believe this ability, in some respect at least, is possible for almost all of us, if we want. It needs concentration and lots of time, but it's possible. If conductors' cerebrial cortex is visualized, there most propably can be seen structural deviations compared to mediocre people. If one really concentrates in what one hears, the experience is different and deeper. Unfortunately our multitasking loaded time doesn't support this concentrated hearing ability. I'm a sad example of this when I usually read and listen music the same time. But if I want a closer relation with music, I only listen.

we should open a thread here on head-fi that's called the mediocre audiophiles, lol!!!!!!, specially for audiophiles like myself that are soundstage impaired.

I sometimes listen intently to the music, specially when I'm evaluating new gear, but sometimes I'm listening to music and perusing head-fi threads for example or reading an article, sometimes not fully concentrating on the music 100% can be helpful because when the music pulls me from what I'm doing, it means it's doing something special.

 

[Simon Patten]

The main reason I want to upgrade my DAC mainly has to do that a lot of people report really good soundstaging abilities on this amp, but I have not experience this to that degree, so I think is my current DAC which is simply holding my amp back to a degree... It could also be me and I'm one of those individuals that cannot perceive soundstage psychoacustics like others do, so at the end of the day, it's a gamble, and it could be a very expensive gamble that just doesn't play out as I expected.

Try this, I always think it has a pretty 3-dimentional sound, especially the drums.



(My third favourite track after Supper's Ready and Stairway.)

 

[MaxMini]

Yesterday LPs like:

...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL - Metallica
13 - Blur

music that theoretically should not play on the HE1000
they played at a volume of about 60-65dB with Aune so dynamically, resolved and layered that I couldn't tear myself away

especially on AND JUSTICE FOR ALL I heard layers of the mix that I had no idea about before

in one word - satisfied, this amplifier really does the trick with these headphones when listening at low volume

For this reason, I've been having problems with the amount of sleep lately

ps. actually there was supposed to be only one song from ..AND JUSTICE FOR ALL, but it turned out to be so addictive that I played it in its entirety, an album I have already heard dozens of times