Audiophile PC vs Streamer

[fliz]

Man - those a gorgeous builds with great photography. Nice work. Also, lovely Denafrips/TEAC setup.

My PC builds of late have been more for utility than for style and performance - I am envious. I have been enjoying my deeply discounted Mac Pro 2019 with 16c/32threads, 96GB ram, and several graphics cards (1 AMD, 1 Nvidia). I use the AMD in Mac OS and the Nvidia in Windows for LLM stuff, but I think it would be great for HQPlayer offloaded to CUDA.

Got the Cyan 2 in yesterday and have been testing it streaming to the RopieeXL endpoint - it can do DSD 512 at 1.7X with EQ which surprised me (Roon Upsampling). That's enough for me as I don't think I want to try for 1024 with the Cyan 2. Need to work on HQPlayer on the Mac Pro which is a bit daunting, but there are good guides out there. Interested if I can perceive a difference from Roon.

What power supply are you using for the rpi?

 

[theveterans]

That’s good to know. I was considering the Eversolo as an upgrade/replacement to my SP2000 which IMHO still trounces a Laptop with Fidelizer and Audirvana extreme. It retains the cleanliness and details of the laptop but now include meat to the bones and hauntingly holographic staging that the laptop can’t quite match

My batteries are being used quite a lot but it’s just amazing sounding as a streamer

3/11 update:

I'll revisit the iPad 2022 (10th gen) as a potential audiophile streamer when I receive my Network Acoustics Eno2 streaming system. Currently, the WiFi is doing a very good job delivering pretty good imaging, staging and tonal balance to my Yggy. I'm expecting more dynamics and precision with the Eno2 in the chain and all radios are turned off in the iPad

Latest update. Finally after having the Eno2 streaming for a week. I can confidently say the laptop (Surface Pro 2017) is beating my iPod Touch 7th gen (which I found superior over iPad 2022). A laptop, once provided with clean Ethernet can absolutely become an amazing sounding streamer indeed. No fidelizer needed whatsoever

 

[alexesafi]

Nice. Hi, can you share more about the difference in SQ between streamer/PC and your FMC mod please?

I am on the opposite route from streamers to PC.

More than 10 years ago I was into mobile setup and was (and still) fond of what UAPP can do. So I decided to bring it to the desktop environment since i was of low cost than an audiophile pc/server. Hence my configuration at that time: Android TV Box w/ HDD + LPS + DDC -> DAC. That was 8-9 years ago.

Then I came across HQPlayer and upsampling, later on Roon. So hence now: PC (Roon w/ HQP) + DDC / FMC Mod -> DAC.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Streamer setup -> detailed and cleaner presentation

- Android TV Box w/ HDD (using UAPP via USB) + LPS + DDC -> DAC​

PC setup -> same above w/ more micro details, body and heft

- PC (using Roon + HQplayer via USB) + USB Reclock/Regen + DDC -> DAC​

​

via LAN using FMC Mod is a bit cleaner but lacks body and heft.​

 

[theveterans]

PC setup -> same above w/ more micro details, body and heft
- PC (using Roon + HQplayer via USB) + USB Reclock/Regen + DDC -> DACvia LAN using FMC Mod is a bit cleaner but lacks body and heft.

From your PC setup,

Try taking out the USB reclock/regen then add back the FMC mod. I’m predicting improved body and heft without sacrificing microdetail and cleanliness

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Thanks! Tried that..and many other combinations.

For my taste this is the combo I like on my present setup.

 

[theveterans]

I have married the two together with Diretta

Currently using a regular non-optimized Windows 10 Surface Pro 2017 laptop playing non-bitperfect Apple Music (I really find non bitperfect playback to be inconsequential of sound quality)

Using Diretta the stream is delivered using Ethernet to the SOtM sMS-200. Stream goes from Ethernet port → Cat6 Ethernet -> Router → Cat6 Ethernet → Generic FMC → cheap Fiber Optic → Generic FMC → Network Acoustics Eno2 Streaming System → SOtM sMS-200 → iFi micro iUSB 3.0 → BADA USB Series 2 → Yggdrasil More is Better → Saga OG → Aegis IU HEREH Edition → Susvara/Bokeh Open

This chain is very long but worth it for the sound quality

 

[Pythegu]

With how insane computer builds are these days I guess I just never thought a streamer to ever be necessary. You can "Exclusive Mode" which as far as I know, just bypasses any effect windows could put on the signal? But I'm a noob and can't really say one way or the other.

 

[theveterans]

With how insane computer builds are these days I guess I just never thought a streamer to ever be necessary. You can "Exclusive Mode" which as far as I know, just bypasses any effect windows could put on the signal? But I'm a noob and can't really say one way or the other.

Apple Music doesn’t have an exclusive mode. Roon, Tidal and Qobuz do and can directly stream bit-perfect through Diretta Protocol

Some of the audiophile PC builds with Diretta built-in https://www.pachankolabs.com/masterpiece

 

[sygnus21]

With how insane computer builds are these days I guess I just never thought a streamer to ever be necessary. You can "Exclusive Mode" which as far as I know, just bypasses any effect windows could put on the signal? But I'm a noob and can't really say one way or the other.

This is one of those how deep do you want to dive things. I don't run a Streamer, but play i do play files from my PC; I simply have my PC connected to a DDC (Digital to Digital Converter) via USB. The DDC is connected to my DAC via I2S (HDMI) connection. No hocus pocus tweaks to PC. No sound issues.

 

[matthia]

Some of the audiophile PC builds with Diretta built-in https://www.pachankolabs.com/masterpiece

Pachanko seems to be in liquidation:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/fraud-by-chan-owner-of-pachanko-labs.40529/

 

[theveterans]

Pachanko seems to be in liquidation:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/fraud-by-chan-owner-of-pachanko-labs.40529/

They didn't get the popularity that Pink Faun and Taiko Audio did. Still, I don't get the point of integrating Diretta on their music server since the point of Diretta is to stream to a low power Pi streamer which defeats the purpose of using exotic music server whereas you stream directly using USB or i2S or AES etc. on those expensive Windows based music servers from Taiko or Pink Faun

 

[matthia]

They didn't get the popularity that Pink Faun and Taiko Audio did. Still, I don't get the point of integrating Diretta on their music server since the point of Diretta is to stream to a low power Pi streamer which defeats the purpose of using exotic music server whereas you stream directly using USB or i2S or AES etc. on those expensive Windows based music servers from Taiko or Pink Faun

Yes, but this quote of Emile Bok, the founder of Taiko is interesting:
"There is a reason I'm mentioning this bit, being the second reason, which is with everything we've learned over the years, with everything we tried, including designing this motherboard, we just cannot get the same comparable performance with low CPU power solutions as we can from high processing power CPUs, assuming comparable external environmental influences. That is not saying there's no place for them, but it's just not on our current path. Even when used as an endpoint, as a dual server setup, CPU power still matters, even on an endpoint."

 

[theveterans]

Yes, but this quote of Emile Bok, the founder of Taiko is interesting:
"There is a reason I'm mentioning this bit, being the second reason, which is with everything we've learned over the years, with everything we tried, including designing this motherboard, we just cannot get the same comparable performance with low CPU power solutions as we can from high processing power CPUs, assuming comparable external environmental influences. That is not saying there's no place for them, but it's just not on our current path. Even when used as an endpoint, as a dual server setup, CPU power still matters, even on an endpoint."

Of course. That approach is tried and true brute force approach. It's similar approach to Aries Cerat's Kassandra Reference DAC where layers and layers of R2R chips and an overkill power filtering yields the best subjective sound you can get. The con for those approaches is of course $$$$$. I'm on the realm of bang for buck and hence a small affordable Pi streamer decked out with LPS + Ethernet filtering + multiple DDCs can get pretty great results (just messier though with lots of boxes around). To extract that last bit of sound quality, it really requires extensive CPU and power filtering on both DACs and streamers

 

[matthia]

I'm on the realm of bang for buck and hence a small affordable Pi streamer decked out with LPS + Ethernet filtering + multiple DDCs can get pretty great results (just messier though with lots of boxes around). To extract that last bit of sound quality, it really requires extensive CPU and power filtering on both DACs and streamers

Yes, but maybe you get also similar SQ with a high CPU power computer and upstream solutions like your Eno2