MikoLayer
1000+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2004
- Posts
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Audio Valve RKV MkII had been my dream amp since like a decade ago, and at one point I came very close to buying one on faith. Somehow, I ended up with my current PPX3-6CG7 which I am enjoying quite a lot. Just recently, upgrade bug has awakened from its hibernation prompting me to get a new DAC, HD650 cable, a pair of AD2000. The last thing on my short list of new toys was a new tube amp, partially driven by cheap SP amps popping up in the FS section.
Then I discovered SP amps, due to their OTL design, are not the most optimal for low impedance cans (AD2000 for now, possibly D7000 in the near future). Given the situation of having a mix of high and low impedance cans (HD580, HD600, K701, AD2000). Woo6 looked like a reasonable choice for well balanced sound, and consulting other head-fiers confirmed this initial notion. This, coupled with the obvious, well documented problems with SP amps have tipped the scale in Woo's favor as far as suggestions go.
After I finished reading more of earlier threads comparing the MPX3, Extreme and Woo6, however, I was under impression that the three were progressively less tubey going from MPX3 to Woo6, in that order. Another tidbit I was also told was that AD2000s sound their best with SS amps. Luckily, I happen to have this amp built by a competent DIYer that sounded quite good with my HD650 back when it was working; it just needs a new on/off switch that I bought but never got around to install. My priority for the amp upgraded has shifted back toward HD650 in mind, and I don't think I will be satisfied with something more "SS-ish" for that. This is also the reason why I am leaning more towards MPX3 between the two SP amps. When it comes to customer support, I am moving out of the states within a next couple of months, without any immediate plans for coming back in the near future (or ever?). If I do go down the SP path, I will make sure either the amp has already been serviced for safety/longevity, or get that done ASAP. Should there be a need to have the unit repaired, I doubt it would be any easier for either one, especially when I am not the one doing it, lacking soldering skills and all.
Seeing how all the amps in the SP lineup have plummeled in value, I concluded I like my PPX3 well enough to keep it alongside the new one. What that means is that the new amp should bring something different enough to the table to justify its coexsistence. That is not to say I am looking for a radical departure - I like PPX3 quite a lot after all. Although I never had any experience with any of the MPX3 variants, most say it is a step up from a PPX3, more refined and smoother, laid-back, more tube-like, etc. Just a bit worried that either I may find it not engaging enough for my tastes, or too similar to PPX3. (Feel free to comment on this, please
)
Somehow, I reminded myself of my intrest in the Audio Valve amp, and discovered their going price was surprisingly low, possibly within my projected budget ($6-700 and lower, used). I have read Kelly's a bit dated, yet excellent review on the amp. Just about everyone who had an amp commended it on the magical, seducive midrange to die for. Rolled off highs are fine by me, my tube selection on the PPX3 already has some of that anyway. Faster and more refined soudning SP amps on the other hand, are known for their unique ability to sound very different with tuberolling. While I can't comment on how good or bad my PPX3 sounds in relation to other amps, this being my first and only tube amp ever, I know it sounds quite different with different tubes even to my fairly untrained ears. Both PPX3/MPX3 are regarded to be on the warm side of the neutral, so in my mind it seems I got the more neutral type of tube amps kinda covered with the PPX3. Can MPX3 be tuberolled to have mids equally euphoric as that of the RKV MK II? Perhaps equally important is, the cost of getting the right MPX3 tubes for the job - I consider that to be the part of the budget for the whole package, unless they come from the previous owner. Luckily many sellers seem to include a good heap of tubes when they sell off their SP amps.
For those of you that had a luxury of owning both of these amps, what do you think is a more 'sensible' or 'appreciable' upagrade for me, assuming the main use will be for HD650, and PPX will stay as a complimentary amp? I know it sounds like a terribly vague way to seek subjective findings. Still, I had to throw it out there to get some responses. If PPX3 is 'good enough' and not so much different from a MPX3 in general (though they vary a lot from unit to unit I suppose), then RKV sounds more attractive. But if that's not the case, then oh well
At the moment, I am not even worried about the impedanzer at this point; I heard it works well with low-impedance cans, but that comes at a hefty price... Last but not least, I am still interested in WA6 and Extreme as well (or consonance cyber 30, CSP2, etc), as long as a used one turns up and price is right. Descriptive remarks on why exactly you like one over the other for HD650 would be welcome, not the reliability problem that I am already aware and mentioned in this post.
To shed a light on what I find desirable in headphones/amps, this is how I see different phones on my PPX3 (6GU7):
- I don't hear the senn 'veil'. I liked my brief encounter with the SR60, but I still have no clue what this 'veil' business is about.
- HD600 sounds quite colored (not necessarily in a bad way) and a bit more soothing and relaxing, the more engaging HD650 can have a bit of edginess in comparison.
- But I like the impact of HD650's bass, and more importantly, tonality is more natural and better to me (better than anything I heard, for that matter).
- K701 are definitely cleaner sounding, lacking that slight bass bloat sometimes present on the HD650.
- At the same time, K701's sound lacks body, barely enough for some tracks, flat out deficient on others. Definitely not as fun or immsersive listen as HD650s
- At first I was wowed at its unique soundstage (wide, 3D), but the more I hear it, the less coherent it feels. Highs are a bit 'metallic' or tinny sounding, bit too edgy.
- Overall, HD650 sounds best all-around, most immersive (emotional?) experience as a whole and equally good on faster lively tunes and slower mellow tunes.
- On HD650, stock cables were a touch warm, generally good, albeit a bit muddy. Silver Dragon sounded constricted, bright, and very fatiguing. Headphile silvers solunded open, relaxing, a bit light but quite good. Ended up with Alex's cable (before he established his APS brand), and have Double Helix cables on order.
Then I discovered SP amps, due to their OTL design, are not the most optimal for low impedance cans (AD2000 for now, possibly D7000 in the near future). Given the situation of having a mix of high and low impedance cans (HD580, HD600, K701, AD2000). Woo6 looked like a reasonable choice for well balanced sound, and consulting other head-fiers confirmed this initial notion. This, coupled with the obvious, well documented problems with SP amps have tipped the scale in Woo's favor as far as suggestions go.
After I finished reading more of earlier threads comparing the MPX3, Extreme and Woo6, however, I was under impression that the three were progressively less tubey going from MPX3 to Woo6, in that order. Another tidbit I was also told was that AD2000s sound their best with SS amps. Luckily, I happen to have this amp built by a competent DIYer that sounded quite good with my HD650 back when it was working; it just needs a new on/off switch that I bought but never got around to install. My priority for the amp upgraded has shifted back toward HD650 in mind, and I don't think I will be satisfied with something more "SS-ish" for that. This is also the reason why I am leaning more towards MPX3 between the two SP amps. When it comes to customer support, I am moving out of the states within a next couple of months, without any immediate plans for coming back in the near future (or ever?). If I do go down the SP path, I will make sure either the amp has already been serviced for safety/longevity, or get that done ASAP. Should there be a need to have the unit repaired, I doubt it would be any easier for either one, especially when I am not the one doing it, lacking soldering skills and all.
Seeing how all the amps in the SP lineup have plummeled in value, I concluded I like my PPX3 well enough to keep it alongside the new one. What that means is that the new amp should bring something different enough to the table to justify its coexsistence. That is not to say I am looking for a radical departure - I like PPX3 quite a lot after all. Although I never had any experience with any of the MPX3 variants, most say it is a step up from a PPX3, more refined and smoother, laid-back, more tube-like, etc. Just a bit worried that either I may find it not engaging enough for my tastes, or too similar to PPX3. (Feel free to comment on this, please
Somehow, I reminded myself of my intrest in the Audio Valve amp, and discovered their going price was surprisingly low, possibly within my projected budget ($6-700 and lower, used). I have read Kelly's a bit dated, yet excellent review on the amp. Just about everyone who had an amp commended it on the magical, seducive midrange to die for. Rolled off highs are fine by me, my tube selection on the PPX3 already has some of that anyway. Faster and more refined soudning SP amps on the other hand, are known for their unique ability to sound very different with tuberolling. While I can't comment on how good or bad my PPX3 sounds in relation to other amps, this being my first and only tube amp ever, I know it sounds quite different with different tubes even to my fairly untrained ears. Both PPX3/MPX3 are regarded to be on the warm side of the neutral, so in my mind it seems I got the more neutral type of tube amps kinda covered with the PPX3. Can MPX3 be tuberolled to have mids equally euphoric as that of the RKV MK II? Perhaps equally important is, the cost of getting the right MPX3 tubes for the job - I consider that to be the part of the budget for the whole package, unless they come from the previous owner. Luckily many sellers seem to include a good heap of tubes when they sell off their SP amps.
For those of you that had a luxury of owning both of these amps, what do you think is a more 'sensible' or 'appreciable' upagrade for me, assuming the main use will be for HD650, and PPX will stay as a complimentary amp? I know it sounds like a terribly vague way to seek subjective findings. Still, I had to throw it out there to get some responses. If PPX3 is 'good enough' and not so much different from a MPX3 in general (though they vary a lot from unit to unit I suppose), then RKV sounds more attractive. But if that's not the case, then oh well
To shed a light on what I find desirable in headphones/amps, this is how I see different phones on my PPX3 (6GU7):
- I don't hear the senn 'veil'. I liked my brief encounter with the SR60, but I still have no clue what this 'veil' business is about.
- HD600 sounds quite colored (not necessarily in a bad way) and a bit more soothing and relaxing, the more engaging HD650 can have a bit of edginess in comparison.
- But I like the impact of HD650's bass, and more importantly, tonality is more natural and better to me (better than anything I heard, for that matter).
- K701 are definitely cleaner sounding, lacking that slight bass bloat sometimes present on the HD650.
- At the same time, K701's sound lacks body, barely enough for some tracks, flat out deficient on others. Definitely not as fun or immsersive listen as HD650s
- At first I was wowed at its unique soundstage (wide, 3D), but the more I hear it, the less coherent it feels. Highs are a bit 'metallic' or tinny sounding, bit too edgy.
- Overall, HD650 sounds best all-around, most immersive (emotional?) experience as a whole and equally good on faster lively tunes and slower mellow tunes.
- On HD650, stock cables were a touch warm, generally good, albeit a bit muddy. Silver Dragon sounded constricted, bright, and very fatiguing. Headphile silvers solunded open, relaxing, a bit light but quite good. Ended up with Alex's cable (before he established his APS brand), and have Double Helix cables on order.
