AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[astrostar59]

   
There are a lot of "I" assertions in that!
None of it speaks to my reluctance to re-contemplate USB.
This AOIP thread has been great for me building my present system - for which many thanks.
I am beginning to love what I have, and don't need to invite back in complex USB-hinged arrays in order to enjoy my music.
That is what I mean by "nope".
(Plus of course, "lol" means, "Look at how we so strenuously denied USB in the beginning!")
Absolutely nothing against you pioneering boys pushing the envelope.
But for me there is mojo where I'm at. I'll keep an eye on y'all tho' - even if I don't contribute

Mirrors where I am at as well. I want as simple and complete a solution as possible. I don't want to go back to costly and complex USB fixers and adapters, convertors and filter boxes, cable spagetti. They are expensive, complex, interact in inconsistent ways and can run into a dead end as regards firmware and my Mac / system updates. I am also convinced they can sound better or worse depending how they interact with the DAC input, i.e. the choice of DAC affects how effective they are.
 
I am tempted to tap an LPS supply into my Rednet box however, but unless someone else does if first and it works out, I won't risk trashing the warranty.
 
USB fixers is a big subject. I had 4 years of it and want to move on. I was never convinced by it or heard anyones USB fed DAC that sounded great IMO.
 
But there are also huge gains looking at mains regeneration IMO. The mount of gains one can get depends to an extent how good your mains supply is i.e stability of voltage, noise and wave form. I live in an apartment though it is new and has a step-down transformer on the street level. I see 2.5% mains distortion average, sometimes 6% and volage can be 229v anywhere up to 259v.

 

[Iving]

Originally Posted by astrostar59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I am tempted to tap an LPS supply into my Rednet box however, but unless someone else does if first and it works out

 
Also interested ...

 

[Iving]

But there are also huge gains looking at mains regeneration IMO. The mount of gains one can get depends to an extent how good your mains supply is i.e stability of voltage, noise and wave form

 
Also interested in this ... although my local supply probably is pretty good

 

[rb2013]

  Not wanting to complicate things, but a power regenerator IMO gives huge gains in filtered and clean / stable power. Sonically made a big difference. Measured my gets 2.5%+ mains distortion in and 0.1% out. Put the LPS and the rest of the system on that and equates to cleaner power.

I have tried the PS Audio regenerators - and they were not to my taste - but really like the Audience aR AC line balancers and conditioners.  I use one in my main system.  Too bad they are so expensive.  Isotech makes some great conditioners as well.  But found that using separate AC common and differential mode conditioners and isolators helped in my systems.  Esp having my DAC's on a separate sole unit vs the DDC's and PC music servers.  To me the 'damage' done to the SQ is pretty obvious with SMPS.  Much experimenting with the iFi iPowers - always heard an improvement when they were removed.
 

   
There are a lot of "I" assertions in that!
None of it speaks to my reluctance to re-contemplate USB.
This AOIP thread has been great for me building my present system - for which many thanks.
I am beginning to love what I have, and don't need to invite back in complex USB-hinged arrays in order to enjoy my music.
That is what I mean by "nope".
(Plus of course, "lol" means, "Look at how we so strenuously denied USB in the beginning!")
Absolutely nothing against you pioneering boys pushing the envelope.
But for me there is mojo where I'm at. I'll keep an eye on y'all tho' - even if I don't contribute

Well I guess you miss the part where I said  - I'm not recommending anyone follow this path.  And that AOIP is great and the better SQ I've heard from this USB ultra chain, does not in any way detract or degrade the Rednet gear.  My only point is to report what I found - and to not dismiss USB (or the upcoming ThunderBolt 3) completely.  Some time back I was accused of being biased agianst USB - nothing can be further from the truth.  With my very popular 'Gustard U12' and 'XU208' experiments and threads - I feel I have done my part to push that game forward.  AOIP was s sea-change to me - but I kept my USB experiments going - so glad I did.  I won't go into this any more here - and will wait to post to the new thread.  There is to much to discuss and explain.
 

 
Mirrors where I am at as well. I want as simple and complete a solution as possible. I don't want to go back to costly and complex USB fixers and adapters, convertors and filter boxes, cable spagetti. They are expensive, complex, interact in inconsistent ways and can run into a dead end as regards firmware and my Mac / system updates. I am also convinced they can sound better or worse depending how they interact with the DAC input, i.e. the choice of DAC affects how effective they are.
 
I am tempted to tap an LPS supply into my Rednet box however, but unless someone else does if first and it works out, I won't risk trashing the warranty.
 
USB fixers is a big subject. I had 4 years of it and want to move on. I was never convinced by it or heard anyones USB fed DAC that sounded great IMO.
 
But there are also huge gains looking at mains regeneration IMO. The mount of gains one can get depends to an extent how good your mains supply is i.e stability of voltage, noise and wave form. I live in an apartment though it is new and has a step-down transformer on the street level. I see 2.5% mains distortion average, sometimes 6% and volage can be 229v anywhere up to 259v.

Your feeling on the USB complexity for top performance is totally understandable - I was there as well.  Then came the Mutec as SPDIF/AES reclocker (needing another high end power cord, another box), then the Antelope OCX (another high end power cord, Oyaide silver BNC cable, another box),  then the FMC fiber boxes (needing two more LPS's), and not to mention suggestions for a GISO Etherent isloator.  And AOIP was looking more and more like USB - that is for 'pushing the envelope' performance.  The cost for all this was getting crazy.
 
Sold it all when the one box BURL Dante DAC mods produced better results. 
 
I was so pleased to be down to just two boxes - the BURL and an ext LPS.  Not hard to see how removing these SMPS's and using a decent LPS can improve things (see the CA thread on the Mutec gear).  My hope is that new Dante interfaces come with a simple DC power port (as I have posted they already have).  I did miss my tube DACs - so that kept me pushing forward on the USB front in my office system.
 
So now back to the USB alternative that has reset the bar to such a high level.  And at a much lower cost.  Yes it is complex needing many components, but actually takes much less space then the AOIP stack.  The Singxer F-1(stock) is very small - same for the Startech boxes - hidden behind my gear rack.  It's the three LPS's that take some room  - but still less then before.  But for me all that's not what's ultimately important - the ONLY thing I'm concerned with is sound quality at a reasonable cost.  As far as SQ it's the best yet - and costs far less then a D16.
 
Signing off this thread unless some new AOIP gear appears that I may try - and a quick note to let anybody interested know the new threads up.
 
Good luck to those on the Rednet path.
 
Cheers!

 

[Iving]

 
Quote:

  Well I guess you miss the part where I said  - I'm not recommending anyone follow this path.  And that AOIP is great and the better SQ I've heard from this USB ultra chain, does not in any way detract or degrade the Rednet gear.  My only point is to report what I found - and to not dismiss USB (or the upcoming ThunderBolt 3) completely.  Some time back I was accused of being biased agianst USB - nothing can be further from the truth.  With my very popular 'Gustard U12' and 'XU208' experiments and threads - I feel I have done my part to push that game forward.  AOIP was s sea-change to me - but I kept my USB experiments going - so glad I did.  I won't go into this any more here - and will wait to post to the new thread.  There is to much to discuss and explain.
 

 
No - didn't miss it

 

[joelha]

  Signing off this thread unless some new AOIP gear appears that I may try - and a quick note to let anybody interested know the new threads up.
 

 
Hey Rob,
 
Thanks for creating the new thread but I don't see it.
 
Could you (or anyone else for that matter) please provide a link?
 
Joel

 

[rb2013]

Hey Rob,

Thanks for creating the new thread but I don't see it.

Could you (or anyone else for that matter) please provide a link?

Joel

Hi Joel,
Well at least one person is interested! LOL!

No it's not up yet, you know I like high information threads, so they take some time to create. I'll be a few weeks before I done with some final experimenting. The MEIYAN LPS is still burning in (on day three now and all I can say is wow!). It'll get modded with new Mundorf 10,000uf caps. The Breeze LPS is getting a new ultra low noise 0.8uv LT3042 board, replcing the 180uv LT1083 board. Tnis I'll try on the F-1, and on the LEX.

I'm finding how important high quality power supplies make. So I'll go through all the comparisons and SQ differences these different LPS's make. My goal is to keep the total chain cot below $1200. So no JS-2‘s, SR3's, or LPS-1‘s in the budget unfortunately.

Cheers

 

[joelha]

I'm definitely interested, Rob.
 
I have two JS-2's as well as a variety of Sbooster power supplies.
 
I'm completely open to buying the Singxer F-1 (or SU-1 as I use AES cables) as well as the Startech device. You're using the four output option?
 
My DAC is the Berkelely Alpha Reference Series 2 (only very recently upgraded).
 
So, given that and some other large investments I've made in my system, I'm very interested in knowing about the new USB option you've arrived at . . . even though it's still in development.
 
If you're interested in feedback from a second pair of ears, I'm very open to getting more details from you.
 
Thanks for the great pioneering work you're doing for the rest of us.
 
Joel

 

[johnjen]

snip I am tempted to tap an LPS supply into my Rednet box however, but unless someone else does if first and it works out, I won't risk trashing the warranty.
 
snip

  Also interested ...

I have a triple output LPS inbound, to mod my RN3.
I probably won't see it till December.
 
Then the real fun begins, as in, what will it take to couple it to the RN3…
 
JJ

 

[astrostar59]

  I have a triple output LPS inbound, to mod my RN3.
I probably won't see it till December.
 
Then the real fun begins, as in, what will it take to couple it to the RN3…
 
JJ

That sounds VERY interesting. If not too much bitter could you PM me when you start? I would love to be in on the ground floor on this.
 
Which LPS did you buy?

 

[Iving]

  I have a triple output LPS inbound, to mod my RN3.
I probably won't see it till December.
 
Then the real fun begins, as in, what will it take to couple it to the RN3…
 
JJ

 
 
Interested!
 
Have you thought of contacting UK Focusrite for info, advice even service?

 

[astrostar59]

   
 
Interested!
 
Have you thought of contacting UK Focusrite for info, advice even service?

I think (am sure) they would not support that. It is an internal mod and would trash the warranty. Pity there is no power in ports at the back.
 
Anyway, if unhooking some tracers and wires allows a DC supply to be hooked up that would be great. I would add a socket on the back so it was all secure.
 
My LPS has 2 spare outputs for 12V DC and another for variable, so should work.

 

[peteAllen]

  I have both HQPlayer and Oppo BDP-95 configured to my D16.
 
I do think it's worth trying if you have any DVD or BluRay music discs. Just downmix to Stereo in your Oppo player.
 
The only way I was able to use both, was to connect AES from D16 to my DAC AES, and SPDIF from D16 to SPDIF on my DAC. Then just select which input on your DAC.
 
Computer channels 1&2 are routed to Rednet D16 1&2. Rednet channels 3&4 are routed to Rednet channels 3&4 in Dante Controller.
 
I also made RCA Output Source = Channels 3-4 in Rednet Control options (tool bar icon).
 
Edit: Added Screen Shot, and Oppo needs to be set to LPCM in Audio Format and choose your sample rate.

Thanks a lot Golfnutz!
 
I tried this out, along with the new Rednet Control 2.0 and latest DVS. Audio from my Oppo 93 (with Audiocom mod) blu-ray player seemed much bigger and better (although voices were a little submerged by the sound effects). It is however a pain to have to switch over manually because I use 96khz for music and obviously 48khz. I ended up saving the config settings so I can switch over fairly quickly, and I use the same AES cable / output to my dac (mainly because I don't have great spdiff cables).

 

[Golfnutz]

  Thanks a lot Golfnutz!
 
I tried this out, along with the new Rednet Control 2.0 and latest DVS. Audio from my Oppo 93 (with Audiocom mod) blu-ray player seemed much bigger and better (although voices were a little submerged by the sound effects). It is however a pain to have to switch over manually because I use 96khz for music and obviously 48khz. I ended up saving the config settings so I can switch over fairly quickly, and I use the same AES cable / output to my dac (mainly because I don't have great spdiff cables).

No problem Pete.
 
I don't have the D-Sub cable for the other channels, which is why I was using SPDIF for channels 3-4 out.
 
I use my AES output cable for channels 1-2 (Primary from PC), and as you're probably aware, the output channels can only be routed one-to-one.
 
I have routed SPDIF-IN (channels 3-4) to AES-Out (channels 1-2), but like you say it's a pain to manually switch, so I just use both (AES and SPDIF) and choose which one I want by using my DAC's remote.
 
Not sure if you saw my other post, but you don't need a computer or router/switch if only using an external device like a CD Player.

 

[mourip]

There is a new Dante product that looks like a step in the right direction. It is a small two channel ethernet to analog converter board that talks to a Dante network. Just 96K though.
 
https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-analog-output-module