[rb2013]

  as do I and I never believed in Delta Sigma as something better. I also am not a fan of converting on the fly which is part of this protocol but will listen when I can as anything can be faulted.
 
 My ears tell me that my source is not limiting. I will wait and listen to Rednet for a final opinion but don't expect me to use your ears to tell which is better.
 
I can easily differentiate between 24/96 and 24/192 wav dubs on what I use and can compare to what was just recorded in the same room by loading a dig file to my dedicated server or just use the recorder (no PCs). The upnp setup beats a Nagra 6 with linear supply direct or if it's feeding the same costly ladder DAC (Naim NDS) in the streaming setup. Anything can be beat but really, I have a little issue with the perceived 'faults' of UPNP when implemented optimumly. Sure, what I'm using is more costly than most use but when comparing formats, one needs to compare the best offered by each. This isn't airplay. I don't think there needs to be a villian for Rednet to be viable. It will be great for it's purpose and perhaps more. I actually hope it's as good as advertised for home use but can see why it may not be best at everything.

If your UnNP is so great - why are you reading this thread?  Something must be lacking in your source or you wouldn't be searching for alternatives...

 

[rb2013]

  Not knowing what player you're using potentially makes what I'm about to write null and void… 

 
There are players that can perform SR up or down shift, in 'real' time, and as such the player can perform the sample rate conversion to a 'set' rate (RedNet Control), which is how I run.
 
And if you are running windows then the Sample Rate Follows feature becomes an option as well.
These are the only 2 ways I know about, of getting around this pesky fly in the ointment.
 
Some just max everything out, (up sample everything to 192KHz) and leave it there, while others pick one of the 2 mid sample rates (88 or 96KHz).
88.2KHz is the one I run because it's an exact double of the 44.1 CD resolution.
 
And since I don't have a lot of albums at 96KHz and above (and very few 48KHz), I don't worry about them too much.
 
In effect all of my redbook (44.1KHz) and 88.2 and 176.4 Khz tracks are all exact multiples of each other.
And the 96 and 192Khz files are the 'orphans', so if I worry about maxing the SQ for those few files, I fuss with the buttons to switch the SR around to accommodate.
 
Thus far this seems to work out rather well for me.
 
Just something to consider.
 
JJ

I did a lot experimentation with samplers in Foobar - SRC, SSRC, SoX, etc...  Most depreciated the SQ when upsampling redbook - but not SoX.  I wouldn't play a redbook track without it.
 
Nice SQ improvement whether upsampling redbook to 96k to my R2R PCM1704U-K DAC60 or 192k to my APL.  176k and 192k and even DxD files down sample to appropriate SR to good effect as well.  This seems to hold for my uber usb chain or AOIP Dante chain.

 

[Tboooe]

 
I did a lot experimentation with samplers in Foobar - SRC, SSRC, SoX, etc...  Most depreciated the SQ when upsampling redbook - but not SoX.  I wouldn't play a redbook track without it.
 
Nice SQ improvement whether upsampling redbook to 96k to my R2R PCM1704U-K DAC60 or 192k to my APL.  176k and 192k and even DxD files down sample to appropriate SR to good effect as well.  This seems to hold for my uber usb chain or AOIP Dante chain.

rb, sorry if this has been asked but have you tried HQPlayer?  Curious what think versus Foobar.

 

[rb2013]

  rb, sorry if this has been asked but have you tried HQPlayer?  Curious what think versus Foobar.

No - and I'm sure it's SQ is very good - but the interface is not spectacular.  The SQ of FB2K is very good and I know how to tweek to the nth degree.  If anyone has tried Foo without SoX they are really missing out on what it's capable of.
 
I don't see me leaving Foobar anytime soon.  Compared to the SQ with iTunes - iTunes is a joke - but that's not saying much.
 
Here is an interesting comparison going PCM>DSD:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/head-head-jrmc19-foobar-sacd-and-hq-player-doing-cd-standard-lpcm-sampled-16-bits-and-44-100-times-second-aimed-reproducing-sound-20-20-000hz-direct-stream-digital-and-native-direct-stream-digital-20687/
 

Redbook​

to DSD conversion -​

voices and acoustic instruments the big winners, more texture and detail​

​

JRMC 19​

Redbook

>​

DSD

128 results are very good (CPU load 13%)​

​

Foobar + SACD in Integer (?) mode >​

DSD

256 is even better, jaw dropping for me as I have never heard​

Redbook

this good. We almost gave up on Foobar until we switched to non 32 bit Floating Point mode (therefore Integer mode ?) in the SACD plug-in, and then the SQ difference was night and day (CPU load 13%).​

​

​

What was also interesting was comparing Foobar+SACD converting to DSD64 (waste of time, a wet blanket), DSD128 very good, slightly better than JRMC19, and then superb with DSD256 in a class by itself.​

​

HQ Player is good but the CPU load is much higher (40 %) and this might be negatively impacting the sound we could get from HQ Player, the results were not as good as the other two players. We had expected HQ Player to be the best, further investigation and tweaking is required.​

 

 
More good info on the comparisons between XXXplayer, HQplayer and FB2K:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,93807.0.html

 

[Golfnutz]

Not running DSD, but I am upsampling to 176.4 w/sinc filter.
 

 
Only reason for posting is to give you an idea of CPU load.

 

[goodvibes]

 
If your UnNP is so great - why are you reading this thread?  Something must be lacking in your source or you wouldn't be searching for alternatives...

Because I like music, technology and may have a use for it at some point. Not everything needs to be the absolute best at everything to be the right thing for something. Why are you so defensive of the tech and offensive to posters at the same time? My posts are neither aggressive nor dismissive and I didn't see this as a REDNET appreciation thread but you're right, I have no need to be insulted here, multiple times. I left for a few weeks earlier after a couple posts for the same reason and here we are again. If you don't want any scrutiny, which is part of good science, make it an appreciation thread.
 
I honestly wish you well and hope you're more open to other views in the future. 

 

[kazsud]

Does anyone on here w/ a rednet happen to live near Philadelphia?

 

[patrikh]

Switched sample rate to 96k and got an improvement in soundstage. Although spotify is 44k and I'm running NOS, this sounds better to me.

 

[goodvibes]

  Switched sample rate to 96k and got an improvement in soundstage. Although spotify is 44k and I'm running NOS, this sounds better to me.

One last post. Try 88 or 176 if available. Less interpolation is usually a good thing.

 

[patrikh]

  One last post. Try 88 or 176 if available. Less interpolation is usually a good thing.

Will do!

 

[johnjen]

 
I very much doubt any of that will improve quality. The whole reason DS DACs up sampled was to allow the filter to block noise above 18K. You are not doing that, so no point.
 
Anyway, if you are using a DS DAC it will be up sampling in the DAC anyway, can't avoid that.

My aim was not to improve the SQ but to not loose any, and if it were improved it would be icing on the cake so to speak.
 
And while I do hear subtle differences, they are well under my ToP (Threshold of Perceptibility), which is my means of determining if any changes make a step in either direction.
 
And my goal was to find a simplified approach to feeding my RN3 so as to not have to fuss much at all, unless I wanted to.
 
 
 
And lastly sox has been added to the latest version of Jriver Media Center and it does contribute to better SQ.
Not by a huge amount (at least in my system) but it does help.
 
JJ

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

The measurements and explanations of the power supply noise in your DIY thread was very good info JJ. Now to think what these units sound like with a linear power supply instead of the noisy stepped ones that it comes with.

 

[Iving]

  If you don't want any scrutiny, which is part of good science, make it an appreciation thread.

 
Science for the most part involves experimentation or an *empirical* approach (= "based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic"). Scientists "scrutinise" by *replicating* other people's results; i.e., subjecting  them to "falsification". You can't "falsify" someone else's observations from the armchair rather than the laboratory. Good reviews tend to focus more on "scrutinising" poor methodology - but that could hardly apply here where the weight of "evidence" (first hand aural experience) is so unmissable. Folks responding to you (as I) are trying to say that you have to hear a RedNet to understand what it can deliver in SQ terms. Those on this thread that have done so do tend to appreciate it. I can understand that if you've invested significantly in an alternative, cognitive dissonance may restrain your willingness to experiment, and perhaps it is difficult to road test these boxes before buying.

 

[Iving]

  One last post. Try 88 or 176 if available. Less interpolation is usually a good thing.

 
My head tells me this should be so. But I keep listening to redbook upsampled to 192 instead of 176.4 - because of first hand experience. I enjoy 192 more - I think!

 

[johnjen]

The measurements and explanations of the power supply noise in your DIY thread was very good info JJ. Now to think what these units sound like with a linear power supply instead of the noisy stepped ones that it comes with.

Thanks!
 
And yeah the lesson from using the LPS on the Fibre Media Converter, if it were applied to the RN3 or the RND16 etc., should yield some welcome SQ changes.
 
And to that end I may have found a triple output LPS that won't break the bank, even if it is ugly, and needs a box to put it into, etc.
 
At least it will allow for another experiment to test to see what would happen with swapping out the SMPS for a decent (2mv rms, 3mv P-P, rated noise) linear PSU.
 
The only unknown left to sleuth out is, do these RedNet boxes actually use the 51 volts being supplied by the stock SMPS, or can we ignore that voltage when we replace the SMPS.
I'm hoping it can be ignored…
 
And the last hitch in the git along is the lead time (4-6 weeks) for the triple PSU's I've found, but the price ≈ $100 each is attractive in and of itself.
 
JJ