AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[InsanityOne]

  Maybe I don't have it:
 
I am getting the clicks and noises again whenever my desk is moved. The sound quality sounds slightly more natural but honestly its not worth the 999 to me. I will give it more time. I bought this unit used from Andrew. The USB is a little more vibrant but less smooth. I need to give it some time before I just kick it to the curb because I move around a lot on my desk. I.e. I hit the desk when the music is playing to go along with the beats some times when I really get going and it is causing noises. I may in the end just end up with a Singxer U-1. 
 
I am wondering if when my AES cable arrives, if that will make a notable difference over Coax but still the little clicks etc are really annoying. When I reported it stopped it was because my desk didn't have any movement and I changed the latency. Now it only makes noises (or the signal hiccups) when I move the desk. 
 
Maybe I don't have the ears to really appreciate the difference
 
Maybe I don't have it set right
 
Maybe I shouldn't assess it until I have the AES cable. 
 
Maybe the Pavane itself is doesn't benefit as much from this and already sounds really good from the USB ( though the lifatec cable sounded a little better as well )
 
Maybe I need to take time to appreciate the differences. 
 
No freaking way am I gonna spend another grand to add a clock... hell no. 
 
I do notice a more effortless feel to the music where it sounds less strained and more naturally flowing but again the difference is not worth 999. . . . YET

You list quite a lot of the questions I have asked myself when considering buying a RedNet for my system. The answers to these questions ultimately led me to a decision to not buy a RedNet and instead begin saving to purchase a high quality DAC with pre-built Dante support like the Burl B2 Bomber or the Lynx Hilo. Seeing as these devices are ~$2,600 I still have a bit more saving to do though. Maybe by the time I have the cash saved there will be an even better Dante DAC in the same price (or below) on then market?
 
- InsanityOne 

 

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

grizzlybeast Could very well be the Pavanes incoming usb is very good. From my brief read on it, it seems to be doing something to the audio before it hits the dac chip. They boast it as one of their premiums on the unit..

As for the pop/clicks, how do you have the unit? I used those rubber feet i included to stack the unit on top of the Fuhrman conditioner, with speakers cranked to 12. You might also try separating the connections with a Fuhrman 215a or similar unit to isolate the Rednet or Pavane/amp outlet, I noticed some noise when I first installed it but separating it from the dac took care of the noise.

Spoiler: Rednet on rubber feet, speaker rig, mic on camera does no justice

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHHCGQPdIc8[/VIDEO]

 

[3X0]

Have any of you folks still suffering from dropouts/latency spikes tried this?: http://www.windowscentral.com/assign-specific-processor-cores-apps-windows-10
 
I'm wondering if assigning 1-2 cores to (1) a media player and (2) Dante Virtual Soundcard might ameliorate the problem.

 

[patrikh]

 
Install rednetcontrol-1.10.exe and don't use wireless

That's what I used and I don't use wireless.

 

[patrikh]

Derp, links for the firmware were on the same page as the instructions.... In case someone is wondering the same thing it's https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/208621649-What-to-Do-if-a-Firmware-Update-in-RedNet-Control-Does-Not-Complete

 

[patrikh]

Fails on me on manual as well... anti-virus off. Gotta try and turn off firewall as well...

 

[patrikh]

The combination of no anti-virus, no firewall and manual installation did the trick.

 

[astrostar59]

  You list quite a lot of the questions I have asked myself when considering buying a RedNet for my system. The answers to these questions ultimately led me to a decision to not buy a RedNet and instead begin saving to purchase a high quality DAC with pre-built Dante support like the Burl B2 Bomber or the Lynx Hilo. Seeing as these devices are ~$2,600 I still have a bit more saving to do though. Maybe by the time I have the cash saved there will be an even better Dante DAC in the same price (or below) on then market?
 
- InsanityOne 

 

Grizzly
I am thinking you need to look at your Mac. It isn't optimised and if you are up sampling it will be3 busting a gut for no reason.
 
Mac Mini, stripped back, 12V DC supply job done.

 

[patrikh]

I got the thing working! The latency is horrible, though. How can I fix it?

 

[patrikh]

On retrospect, trying my dac with usb gave me even more latency. Most I perceived was actually from new game sounds that are quite recessed compared to what I am used to.

 

[johnjen]

  Maybe I don't have it:
 
I am getting the clicks and noises again whenever my desk is moved. The sound quality sounds slightly more natural but honestly its not worth the 999 to me. I will give it more time. I bought this unit used from Andrew. The USB is a little more vibrant but less smooth. I need to give it some time before I just kick it to the curb because I move around a lot on my desk. I.e. I hit the desk when the music is playing to go along with the beats some times when I really get going and it is causing noises. I may in the end just end up with a Singxer U-1. 
 
I am wondering if when my AES cable arrives, if that will make a notable difference over Coax but still the little clicks etc are really annoying. When I reported it stopped it was because my desk didn't have any movement and I changed the latency. Now it only makes noises (or the signal hiccups) when I move the desk. 
 
Maybe I don't have the ears to really appreciate the difference
 
Maybe I don't have it set right
 
Maybe I shouldn't assess it until I have the AES cable. 
 
Maybe the Pavane itself is doesn't benefit as much from this and already sounds really good from the USB ( though the lifatec cable sounded a little better as well )
 
Maybe I need to take time to appreciate the differences. 
 
No freaking way am I gonna spend another grand to add a clock... hell no. 
 
I do notice a more effortless feel to the music where it sounds less strained and more naturally flowing but again the difference is not worth 999. . . . YET

It might be that the SPDIF cable is getting 'wiggled' or thumped or some such.
If so, the AES cable will not have that problem.
 
Is your RedNet on it's own dedicated network?
 
And yes give it several hundred hours of play time, and again after the AES cable goes in as well.
Those circuits need time to settle in as well.
 
JJ

 

[rb2013]

   
On the other hand you get 5 different outputs.... which I guess is one of the main attractions.

Yes 100V is pretty large - but I'd prefer 3 TeraDak DC-30W's  which can each be can be adjusted to a range of voltages.
 
And you can use a DC voltage splitter on the MEIYAN or DC-30W.  God that MEIYAN puts out 6A into 5VDC.  You could run 6 devices at 1A each.

 

[rb2013]

   
I have a feeling that "all noise" upstream of the first ethernet connection may involve aspects and attributes of the broadcasting machine (whether PC or Mac) that mitigate types of "noise" or "signal error" other than "electrical noise" (of the kind that we consider remedied by LPSs/isolation etc). ... and, so, whilst leakage of electrical noise along ethernet may be possible or not possible for all I know, I do think that some or other "timing noise" [aetiological wrt *jitter* error?] may be in play too (to a lesser extent it seems with an unencumbered machine). There has to be some explanation (aside from subjective prejudice!) for the massive SQ enhancement (PRaT is the first thing noticed but the effect is general and unmistakeable) I experienced as a consequence of PC upgrade.

i believe the issue involves the use of a shielded Ethernet cable (Cat 6 STP, Cat 7 or 8) which defeats the inherent Ethernet GI.  Or the use of an unshielded CAT6 UTP cable. - which preserves GI - but may pick up some EMI/RFI.  From Mike's posts much earlier in this thread  - he works at a 'server farm'  - one building crammed full of EMI noisy servers, disks, power supplies and has never had an issue using a UTP there.  In one of the most intense EMI/RFI enviroments one could imagine.  The TCP/RTP protocol is inherently robust (unlike USB UAC2), with full duplex error correction and very large buffering.
 
But never underestimate us audiophiles attention to obsession about potential noise!  Me for example a 5 PART series on power supply noise.

 

[occamsrazor]

 
Yes 100V is pretty large - but I'd prefer 3 TeraDak DC-30W's  which can each be can be adjusted to a range of voltages.
 
And you can use a DC voltage splitter on the MEIYAN or DC-30W.  God that MEIYAN puts out 6A into 5VDC.  You could run 6 devices at 1A each.

Assuming you meant 100w not 100v... it's actually 160w. There's a full list of specs for each of the 5 outputs here:
 
19V/8AMP Output is User Ajdustable from 15V-19V
12V/8AMP Output via XLR Connector
5V-19.5V/3AMP User Adjustalbe Output
5V/3AMP Output
USB 3.1 Type C 5V Output
 
http://www.hd-plex.com/images/product/linearpsu/techspec/100W.Linear.Power.Supply.Tech.Spec.png
 
PS - I don't have one.

 

[rb2013]

  Where are the noise figure you are quoting? Note the HDPlex has maybe 70USD worth of Elna Caps for smoothing. It is used by many building  Caps and they also do caps units as well.
 
I thought it was good value and has been reliable and quiet. Thgere is many cheap crappy units from China but this is not one of them. The Uptone Audio unit (same R-Core) is 3 times more money. Also the unit you say is better is 100Watt not 150Watt.
 
In addition many of the devices in this area needing DC power are low in consumption. I had my EVo convertor, EVO clock and my Mac Mini all running on the HDPlex. The MEIYAN has ONE OUPUT plug, that's it. So in my view the HDPlex get me 3 LPS supplies in one box, 150 Watt capacity, so is a good buy. Also there is a genuine 3 year no questions asked warranty on the HDPlex with the German importer. Good to know. Some Chinese made stuff packs up inside 6 months I have found....
 
So price isn't everything. Need confirmation from you where you got the noise figures?
 
Paul Hynes PS's are good I am told by those who have them, but not cheap, in fact more money than the HDPlex for the same output.

Well you can use a $5 DC splitter cable  -  the MEIYAN produces 6A at 5VDC - enough to power 6 units at 1A 5VDC each.
 
If you look at my multi-part thead series on power supplies I linked to you can understand.  I go beyond simplistic statements like "cheap crappy units from China" to a more detailed analysis.  You say Chinese LPS have 'packed up' in 6months - really which ones?  Were you using them at their intended voltage?  I have used many like the TeraDak and Breeze for years with a hint of trouble.
 
BTW Elna caps are not the best for ps filtering - the Panasonic FM, FR and FC and Nichicon HW have much better PSRR, lower ESR and impedance (like the ones TeraDak's use).  See PART 3 of my series on power supplies - the section on capacitors.  They are good in other uses - see my DAC60 mod project thread.
 
The information on the HDPLEX LPS is right from their website:
http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html
 

 

Wattage

100W (Max 160W)

 

Feature

Top of the Line Hi-End Audio ELNA Capacitors High Quality 160W Silent R-Core Transformer provides clean energy No Humming or Buzz noise for 50Hz and Peak load, 100% Silent Linear Technology LT1083 Low Dropout Positive Fixed Regulators Low ripple noise and void of high frequency noise 19V/8AMP Output is User Ajdustable from 15V-19V via XLR Connector, Supprt Thin ITX/NUC/Auralic Aries Mini/HDPLEX 250W DC-ATX Converter 12V/8AMP Output via XLR Connector, support Legacy Wavelet DAC/Qnap Nas/PicoPSU or 12V based CE device. 5V-19.5V/3AMP User Adjustalbe Output support SoTM PCIE USB card/MicroRendu/Upton USB Regen. 5V/3AMP Output support PPA (Paul Professional Audio) USB Audio card and Squeezebox. USB 3.1 Type C 5V Output Passive aluminum chassis guarantee absolute silent and stable operation

 
Here is the link to the LT1083 datasheet:
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/108345fh.pdf
 

 RMS Output Noise (% of VOUT) TA = 25°C, 10Hz = ≤ f ≤ 10kHz    0.003 %

This recent comparison of LDO regulators does the conversion to uv RMS:
http://hifiduino.blogspot.com/2010/03/comparing-noise-figures-in-linear.html

Comparing Noise Figures in Linear Regulators​

Just like phase noise in clocks, it is difficult to compare noise values among linear regulators because there is no common ground in specifying noise figures. Some companies report noise density, others RMS V noise, and yet others % of Vout. The frequency range for the reported noise figures also varies from company to company.​

 

We can approximate the total noise Vrms for the 10Hz-100KHz interval by noticing that each frequency range contributes a percentage of the total noise. In the case of the LT1763, we notice that the 10Hz-10KHz range contributes about half of the total 10Hz-100KHz noise. The table below compares all the regulators in the 10Hz-100KHz range.​

​

The LT1117 and the LT1083 both quote the same noise levels - equal to about 180uv.  That's pretty poor by today's stds.  The MEIYAN qoutes 13uv with 102 dB of PSRR.
 
 
The PSRR graph for the LT1083 shown on page 8 - PSRR drops to 30dB at 100K (they don't even show beyond that - likely much worse as these high freq become difficult for these old gen LDO's to deal with).  Very poor by modern standards of 60-100dB at 100K to 1Mhz.
 
The HDPLEX is better then a SMPS - but for $395 really expensive for what you get today.
 
PS still waiting for your Rednet review - you know the one you doubted so highly before.