AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio
Jul 24, 2016 at 10:28 PM Post #1,186 of 3,694
 
 
Agreed!
It (Pro Audio AOIP) is a revolution.
Today was a revelation.
I have been without music for a while as my Snell Type A III mids needed re-foaming.
Now they are re-established I played:
a 7" 45 on the P3-24 / RB 301 / Exact / Schitt Mani;
an LP on the LP12 / Ittok / Troika / Linto;
and,
similar music via RedNet D16 AES / Convert-2.
I am fairly long in the tooth with vinyl and a great fan. I have always loathed CDs. This comparison confirmed for the first time that digital music can be more enjoyable and engaging than analogue. That is something I never imagined saying.
I don't believe that I could make such an assertion about USB (although I have not explored every avenue).
Invoking a (satisfaction) hierarchy such as that favoured by rb2013 :wink:
P3-24 = 3/10
LP12 = 6/10
D16/C-2 = 8/10
 

Finding a digital source that competes with my Vinyl front end has been a quest for me too. Still haven't found it yet, having heard many high end systems (went to a hifi show recently and all the digital stuff sounded unnatural to me) so heartening to hear your experience. If starting from scratch, is it best to bite the bullet and buy the Rednet unheard and build a digital front end around it?  TIA!
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 3:53 AM Post #1,187 of 3,694
  Finding a digital source that competes with my Vinyl front end has been a quest for me too. Still haven't found it yet, having heard many high end systems (went to a hifi show recently and all the digital stuff sounded unnatural to me) so heartening to hear your experience. If starting from scratch, is it best to bite the bullet and buy the Rednet unheard and build a digital front end around it?  TIA!

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and it may be difficult to road test a RedNet. All the same, my answer to your question is, "Yes - it is all in the RedNet." That is - you can buy a RedNet 3 or a D16 AES and realise immediately the SQ advantages lauded on this thread. The differences, including cost, between the RedNet 3 and D16 AES are explicit recently on these pages and elsewhere. Whatever DAC you have, a RedNet box will demonstrate to you its credentials. I had an Yggdrasil - the SQ was great - but the RCA/Phono spdif input jack was faulty and that was discovered only after painful investigations. Anyway, I far prefer its replacement, the Dangerous Convert-2. The Convert-2 has a good Clock and, so, I use it as Master instead of the D16 AES. At half the price of the Yggdrasil you can have a Gungnir. If your budget is lower yet, any good DAC that will do as it's told wrt SR to only 192 kHz required is fine. Whilst rb2013 gives us plenty to chew on wrt cables etc - you can run any old ethernet cable from your PC (or even a UPnP arrangement such as I have) to the RedNet. The cable from RedNet to DAC matters - but modest ones do a great job. The rest is down to your back end. In all likelihood I won't replace my Snell Type A IIIs until they (or I) die - because I love them and they love me. Talking of that kind of thing, my wife agrees with my /10 ratings previously described, she doesn't mind that the RedNet is red, she authorised my Hi-Fi loan to myself and we still sleep in the same bed.
 
Another way of understanding my previous post is on a bang-for-buck footing. In its day, the LP12 / Ittok / Troika was a benchmark. Without spending silly money, or exploring esoteric alternatives, it was about as good as you could get in the 1980s. If I sold it now I could get, maybe, £1,500 let's just say. The Linto is another £500. So £2,000 on a vinyl source gets you 6/10. The D16 AES and Convert-2 were well over £3,000 combined - so in a (crude mathematical) sense it's inevitable that together they generate 8/10. But that still surprises me. As we all know, loudspeakers (like dogs) resemble their owners. My Snell Type A IIIs (whilst a privilege to behold, being effusive and natural not to say accurate in all aspects of performance and delivery - did I mention constantly appealing) are full of sparkle, bright and just very slightly forward. Accordingly, they are merciless with digital feeds. USB never got past the Snells without having to excuse itself, but that is not true with RedNet box and Convert-2 - the Banshee has left the building. You can spend £5,000 and more on an LP12 now. I doubt I would do that; however, I can see that if I heard one - or owned maybe a certain kind of refurbished Garrard rig, I might want to play a record instead of the computer! Finally - there is the convenience factor. I can sit at my coffee table and play anything I like in my huge remote library almost without lifting a finger. My wife stops short of bringing my coffee to me whilst I am in reverie. OK - actually she does that too.
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 5:09 AM Post #1,188 of 3,694
   

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and it may be difficult to road test a RedNet. All the same, my answer to your questions is, "Yes - it is all in the RedNet." That is - you can buy a RedNet 3 or a D16 AES and realise immediately the SQ advantages lauded on this thread. The differences, including cost, between the RedNet 3 and D16 AES are explicit recently on these pages and elsewhere. Whatever DAC you have, a RedNet box will demonstrate to you its credentials. I had an Yggdrasil - the SQ was great - but the RCA/Phono spdif input jack was faulty and that was discovered only after painful investigations. Anyway, I far prefer its replacement, the Dangerous Convert-2. The Convert-2 has a good Clock and, so, I use it as Master instead of the D16 AES. At half the price of the Yggdrasil you can have a Gungnir. If your budget is lower yet, any good DAC that will do as it's told wrt to SR up to just 192 kHz is fine. Whilst rb2013 gives us plenty to chew on wrt cables etc - you can run any old ethernet cable from your PC (or even a UPnP arrangement such as I have) to the RedNet. The cable from RedNet to DAC matters - but modest ones do a great job. The rest is down to your back end. I won't replace my Snell Type A IIIs until they die - because I love them and they love me. Talking of that kind of thing, my wife agrees with my /10 ratings previously described, she doesn't mind that the RedNet is red, she authorised my Hi-Fi loan to myself and we still sleep in the same bed.
 
Another way of understanding my previous post is on a bang-for-buck footing. In its day, the LP12 / Ittok / Troika was a benchmark. Without spending silly money, or exploring esoteric alternatives, it was about as good as you could get in the 1980s. If I sold it now I could get, maybe, £1,500 let's just say. The Linto is another £500. So £2,000 on a vinyl source gets you 6/10. The D16 AES and Convert-2 were well over £3,000 combined - so in a sense it's inevitable that together they generate 8/10. But that still surprises me. As we all know, loudspeakers (like dogs) resemble their owners. My Snell Type A IIIs are good looking, precocious, bright and admittedly just very slightly forward. Accordingly, they are merciless with digital feeds. USB never got past the Snells without having to excuse itself, but that is not true with the RedNet and Convert-2 - the Banshee has left the building. You can spend £5,000 and more on an LP12 now. I doubt I would do that; however, I can see that if I heard one - or owned maybe a certain kind of refurbished Garrard rig, I might want to play a record instead of the computer! Finally - there is the convenience factor. I can sit at my coffee table and play anything I like in my huge remote library almost without lifting a finger. My wife stops short of bringing my coffee to me whilst I am in reverie. OK - actually she does that too.

Many thanks! I quite like the idea of not using a PC, what is your server arrangement? 
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 5:46 AM Post #1,189 of 3,694
  Many thanks! I quite like the idea of not using a PC, what is your server arrangement? 


One great advantage of RedNet is that you can use your player of choice (subject to ASIO). I have a *very* strong preference for fb2k. I just want to play rock 'n' roll (and other stuff - I am not a complete reprobate) being able to view everything in my music library and select what I want easily. I have a very strong aversion towards bells, whistles and any of that paid-for, advertisement-laden, ulterior software. My RedNet is cabled from my coffee table - upon which at my fingertips I have a "silent" [see below] Windows 10 tablet PC (Surface Pro 3) whose Docking Station has an ethernet port. I can play direct from the Surface Pro 3 (via DVS of course). But the Surface Pro 3's SSD is not huge (256 Gb) and, besides, I think I get a better rendition over a LAN when a competent Windows 7 PC is doing the "heavy lifting" (Sox upsampling to 192 kHz on a fb2k Server). Thus - I have a (large flac-loaded HDD connected via USB 3.0 to a) good Windows 7 workhorse in my office (also used for stringent ripping in EAC and general library management) connected via Cat 5 to a router in the hallway - thence via Cat 6 to the Secondary ethernet port on the D16 AES (which is in my listening room unsurprisingly). The D16's Primary ethernet port is fed via (a BJC) Cat 6 from the coffee table Surface Pro 3 Docking Station. Vitally, this lets me access my (Windows 7) music library courtesy of *fb2k UPnP Browser*, the (Windows 10) Surface Pro 3 having to do very little work (NB: DVS is installed on the SP3 only). No network hiccoughs to write home about. Many of the hardware and software issues - neurotic tweakery in general - so prevalent taming the USB Banshee - are no longer required (at least, far less called for) with RedNet. I admit I don't like the fan in the Surface Pro 3, but I roll back everything in Windows 10 to try to keep it off, and that works most of the time. I have just discovered that the most meagre incarnation of the Surface Pro 4 (Core m3) is *fanless* - and probably is OK spec-wise for realtime Audio. Something about me abhors advertising for Microsoft!
 
I suppose if you have a psychological distaste for manipulating a PC to get music, you could operate a remote server using Linn Kazoo on a smartphone - but that most definitely would not appeal to me - and someone else could advise better. (I will not use Apple devices or anything else Apple for any purpose - not even wiping my a^&e.)
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 8:09 AM Post #1,190 of 3,694
 
You have a very well thought out system . Coherent speakers and killer transparency and I see a little tube flavor all bottomed out by the Sub .
Way to go . Enjoy it   . I have not spun a record in weeks . As for CA you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink  

 
Thanks. It has taken a while and I had to kiss a few frogs but I am finally quite happy with it. Unfortunately the power switch on my preamp decided to die yesterday. I took the opportunity to bypass the preamp and see what the system would sound like as all solid state. The DHT preamp definitely contributes some magic...
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 8:14 AM Post #1,191 of 3,694
  Finding a digital source that competes with my Vinyl front end has been a quest for me too. Still haven't found it yet, having heard many high end systems (went to a hifi show recently and all the digital stuff sounded unnatural to me) so heartening to hear your experience. If starting from scratch, is it best to bite the bullet and buy the Rednet unheard and build a digital front end around it?  TIA!

 
You could try buying a RN3 from a vendor with a good return policy and just try it out. All you really need is a decent laptop and a trial copy of JRiver or another suitable app. The RN3 comes with the virtual soundcard software. I guess the tricky part is tweaking everything to get the sound to your liking. There is a bit of learning.
 
I have been trying to see how far I could get my digital front end for at least a decade and can say easily that Rednet tops everything else I have tried and is not just relatively better but the best I have heard.
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 9:41 AM Post #1,192 of 3,694
 I suppose if you have a psychological distaste for manipulating a PC to get music, you could operate a remote server using Linn Kazoo on a smartphone - but that most definitely would not appeal to me - and someone else could advise better. (I will not use Apple devices or anything for any purpose whatsoever - not even wiping my a^&e.)

 
Kazoo on iOS is not the only available option. There is always the possibillity to use BubbleDS Next or BubbleUPNP on an Android tablet as well. Personally I prefer BubbleDS Next since it is built for audio purposes only and sounds slightly better to these ears. Just make sure to install Bubbleguuum UPNP add-on to fb2k for a reliable connection plus add the free BubbleUPNP Server or Minimserver to your laptop/NAS (were the music is stored). BubbleDS Next is only free for max 15 songs at a time (for evaluation purpose) but the price for the full version is very low (roughly USD5-13 depending on how much you think it is worth). I use it myself with a 7" Android tablet with great results...but left the PC for Aurelic Aries Mini some time ago and have´nt looked back.
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 2:01 PM Post #1,193 of 3,694
Mytek 192 has an ADAT input :). I just find it out and thought it may be interesting to RN 3 owners. 
 
S/PDIF Optical Input (Toslink) – Consumer digital input
that accepts up to 96KHz. Can also accept professional ADAT
signal up to 96KHz.
 
Jul 25, 2016 at 8:45 PM Post #1,194 of 3,694
Jul 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM Post #1,195 of 3,694
I've been having trouble getting the DVS to work with Jplay. Finally, I decided to change the encoding to 32bit. Then it started to play. This whole time I've had it set to 16 with no issues because I thought that's what it should be. I did a thread search and see that some folks kind of knew that, but it's not clear why. I guess Jplay processes at 32bits?
 
Jul 26, 2016 at 7:24 AM Post #1,196 of 3,694
  I've been having trouble getting the DVS to work with Jplay. Finally, I decided to change the encoding to 32bit. Then it started to play. This whole time I've had it set to 16 with no issues because I thought that's what it should be. I did a thread search and see that some folks kind of knew that, but it's not clear why. I guess Jplay processes at 32bits?

And does JPlay improve the sound in your system when routed through your Rednet device?
 
Joel
 
Jul 27, 2016 at 11:43 AM Post #1,198 of 3,694
Finally finished reading the thread, and quite interested in the AoIP gears.
Waiting for 2-channel network interface.
BTW,  why nobody mentioned Rednet 1/2? RedNet 1 includes eight analog outputs and JetPLL technology, saving cost on a DAC...
 
Jul 27, 2016 at 12:25 PM Post #1,199 of 3,694
Finally finished reading the thread, and quite interested in the AoIP gears.
Waiting for 2-channel network interface.
BTW,  why nobody mentioned Rednet 1/2? RedNet 1 includes eight analog outputs and JetPLL technology, saving cost on a DAC...


My guess is most people would want to use their own choice of DAC.
 
Jul 27, 2016 at 12:45 PM Post #1,200 of 3,694
I have a question to the experts on this thread. What is the difference between a Rednet and a LANRover connected to a normal DAC?
As far as I see it LANRover is just a AOIP USB cable for any DAC and Rednet is the same thing built in but cost more money. If I am wrong..please enlight me! :)
You'll need to have really good reasons. I have the most amazing USB sound now with 3-wire unshielded USB wires and going to 2-wire dito with star ground pretty soon if I do not get convinced! :wink:
 

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