AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[joelha]

So at long long last, I resolved the issue.

I went into my basement to see that my switch was sending some cables 100MB and some 1GB service.

Why, I don't know. But that's for another day.

As I had multiple ethernet outlets near my server (and not knowing which would output what speed), I switched outputs and found that the reason my server would only output 100MB is because that's all it was receiving.

Guess what?

When it received 1GB service, DVS and Rednet Controller output sound for 24/192 files.

Here's a lesson I never finish learning in this hobby: Sometimes the answer to my audio problems lies within the solution which makes no sense.

There you have it.

You guys have been great about trying to help me out.

Thanks to all of you.

Joel

 

[Golfnutz]

So at long long last, I resolved the issue.

I went into my basement to see that my switch was sending some cables 100MB and some 1GB service.

Why, I don't know. But that's for another day.

As I had multiple ethernet outlets near my server (and not knowing which would output what speed), I switched outputs and found that the reason my server would only output 100MB is because that's all it was receiving.

Guess what?

When it received 1GB service, DVS and Rednet Controller output sound for 24/192 files.

Here's a lesson I never finish learning in this hobby: Sometimes the answer to my audio problems lies within the solution which makes no sense.

There you have it.

You guys have been great about trying to help me out.

Thanks to all of you.

Joel

Glad to see you got it sorta out Joel.
 
However, this does prove that Focusrite was correct in saying you need 1GB speed to process those files correctly (native 24/192).
 
Also, if you were running your music files from your OS system, and connecting directly to your D16, why would it still be using 100MB speed (there should have been no connection to your router/modem during this test)?

 

[joelha]

Thanks a lot, Golfnutz.

I honestly don't know and, as I'm sure you can understand, I don't intend to take the time to find out.

If anyone else finds out of course I'll be interested in learning what they discover.

Joel

 

[Golfnutz]

Thanks a lot, Golfnutz.

I honestly don't know and, as I'm sure you can understand, I don't intend to take the time to find out.

If anyone else finds out of course I'll be interested in learning what they discover.

Joel

Pretty obvious why, I'm just surprised you didn't figure it out earlier....

 

[mourip]

  For RN3 to work with the Yggy, what cable are you guys using in case you have to use AES/EBU? Also, does this setup have the problem like the undaes-o where you have to manually change the sampling rate for any change of sampling rate in the music you play?

 
I have a D16 and use an Apogee Wyde Eye AES/EBU cable  as I understand that one of the owners of Schitt prefers it. I have not tried fiber.
 
In theory with later versions of Rednet Control and a firmware update you can do rate following but I have found it to be inconsistent. I just set JRMC to upsample everything to 192K which is the Yggy's max. It sounds wonderful.

 

[jazzfan]

  For RN3 to work with the Yggy, what cable are you guys using in case you have to use AES/EBU? Also, does this setup have the problem like the undaes-o where you have to manually change the sampling rate for any change of sampling rate in the music you play?

 
I put a metal AMP DB25 connector on a  Mogami Gold AES 03 Reference cable.
 

 
My experience with auto rate switching is similar to @mourip. I was unable to get it to work consistently, so I manually change the Sample Rate in RedNet Control.

 

[Jozurr]

   
I have a D16 and use an Apogee Wyde Eye AES/EBU cable  as I understand that one of the owners of Schitt prefers it. I have not tried fiber.
 
In theory with later versions of Rednet Control and a firmware update you can do rate following but I have found it to be inconsistent. I just set JRMC to upsample everything to 192K which is the Yggy's max. It sounds wonderful.

 
 

   
I put a metal AMP DB25 connector on a  Mogami Gold AES 03 Reference cable.
 

 
My experience with auto rate switching is similar to @mourip. I was unable to get it to work consistently, so I manually change the Sample Rate in RedNet Control.

 
I'm not sure if upsampling everything is a good idea and I don't want to keep changing the sampling rate manually as I have a lot of different kind of audio quality to play. Sounds like it is not worth the hassle to improve the little bit of sound quality over the Singxer SU-1 > Yggy. 

 

[astrostar59]

  I'm not sure if upsampling everything is a good idea and I don't want to keep changing the sampling rate manually as I have a lot of different kind of audio quality to play. Sounds like it is not worth the hassle to improve the little bit of sound quality over the Singxer SU-1 > Yggy. 

I can relate to your issue. I used to have various USB 'fixers' and has to set the clock on those. BUT the Rednet sounds much better in every way than all my previous boxes and fixers.
 
The sound loosed that last digital feel to it, a subtle but also quite obvious character to the sound, especially apparent in female vocals (the higher pitched tine the worse they were) and violins. Also piano and electric guitar sound more real, as though from a master tape and not a digital copy. 
 
You get my drift, and it takes me 20 seconds to whizz into Dante (2 settings) and Rednet Control (1 setting) to get the nitrate to be as the file. Also recently I have been listening to a lot of MQA off Tidal and they vary from 96K or 192K, sometimes 44.1. But again, they sound great, so I have no real problem with it. Maybe the time it took me to take an LP out of the sleeve and pick up the tone arm, but probably much quicker. I guess we are spoilt, having got used to instant music tracks at one click. 
 
I would say go for the Rednet, for what it costs I think it is a major upgrade for little cost v the price of a top DAC or HP and amp combo. In fact my Rednet 3 cost me less than my Offramp 5 inc LPS, a lot less.

 

[johnjen]

snip

I just set JRMC to upsample everything to 192K which is the Yggy's max. It sounds wonderful.

Have you tried the other extreme?
 
Down sampling everything to, and/or leaving all of the redbook files at 44.1?
 
It has been noticed and commented that the Jggy does its best when it internally, maximally, up samples the incoming digital audio data.
 
Worth trying to see if you notice any changes/improvements.
 
JJ

 

[jazzfan]

  I'm not sure if upsampling everything is a good idea and I don't want to keep changing the sampling rate manually as I have a lot of different kind of audio quality to play. Sounds like it is not worth the hassle to improve the little bit of sound quality over the Singxer SU-1 > Yggy. 

 
Although some part of me would like to believe that bit perfect is better, I'm slowly coming to the realization that in a digital world, bit perfect playback is no longer an absolute requirement for realistic sound reproduction. In fact, bit perfect playback is likely only a starting point. Given recent improvements in digital processing technology, my long held belief that chasing higher sample rates and wider bit depths were the only paths to achieving the "absolute" sound is slowly being dispelled.
 
Very believable sound can be produced at sample rates as low as 48k as is done with the Smyth Realiser, and room correction software (Acourate) and hardware (DEQX) completely deconstruct and reconstruct bit perfect audio signals to produce quite remarkable improvements in tonality, imaging, and detail. Ultimately, what matters is the resulting sonic output from the stream of electrons that drive your transducers and whether or not those results appeal to your sensibilities. I'm much closer today to discarding old paradigms and fully embracing what is possible in this increasingly digital world. I should probably try some form of re-sampling.

 

[mourip]

"Have you tried the other extreme?
 
Down sampling everything to, and/or leaving all of the redbook files at 44.1?
 
It has been noticed and commented that the Jggy does its best when it internally, maximally, up samples the incoming digital audio data."
 
 
I have not tried that but I do download a lot of 24/192k files from High Definition Tape Tracks so it is easier to just leave everything at 192K.
 
I used to avoid upsampling until I got the D16 AOIP system using the Mutec to re-sample.

 

[johnjen]

  "Have you tried the other extreme?
 
Down sampling everything to, and/or leaving all of the redbook files at 44.1?
 
It has been noticed and commented that the Jggy does its best when it internally, maximally, up samples the incoming digital audio data."
 
 
I have not tried that but I do download a lot of 24/192k files from High Definition Tape Tracks so it is easier to just leave everything at 192K.
 
I used to avoid upsampling until I got the D16 AOIP system using the Mutec to re-sample.

One thing to note is, even if the renderer engine does an excellent job, then down sampling can usually do a better job then up sampling.
Also not crossing the series of 44.1/88.2/176.4 vs the 48/96/192 series of sample rates, usually also makes for a 'better' sample rate conversion.
 
And it was Mike M. that noted that feeding CD's at their native rate of 44.1 optimized the SQ of the Jggy.
Which implies that the best up sampling seems to take place inside the Jggy.
 
And once my rig stabilizes I will experiment with both up sampling and down sampling to feed my Jggy using the same source files ranging from 44.1 to 192 files.
 
Just some additional thoughts to consider.
 
JJ

 

[mourip]

  One thing to note is, even if the renderer engine does an excellent job, then down sampling can usually do a better job then up sampling.
Also not crossing the series of 44.1/88.2/1765.4 vs the 48/96/192 series of sample rates, usually also makes for a 'better' sample rate conversion.
 
And it was Mike M. that noted that feeding CD's at their native rate of 44.1 optimized the SQ of the Jggy.
Which implies that the best up sampling seems to take place inside the Jggy.
 
And once my rig stabilizes I will experiment with both up sampling and down sampling to feed my Jggy using the same source files ranging from 44.1 to 192 files.
 
Just some additional thoughts to consider.
 
JJ

 
Thanks for the added input. Looking forward to your experiments.
 
When I was trying rate following I would set 44.1 to only upsample to 176k but did not hear a (significant) difference or when just leaving it at 44.1K. They all sounded excellent.

 

[mourip]

For those of you using a Mutec +3 USB to re-clock after your Rednet device I have a free, easy, non-warranty-breaking tweak.
 
The Mutek USB comes with the USB input on a daughter-board. It is held in place with two screws on one side and attached to the mainboard by a bunch of pins that slip into an on-board connector.
 
Just unscrew the screws and pull it out. This of course assumes that the input to the Mutec is AES or SPDIF(fiber).
 
Not only does the Mutec still work perfectly but it will consume less power and probably introduce a bit less noise into the system. Oh yeah, I did notice a bit darker background with consequently more detail.
 
My original intention was to remove the SMPS and hook up my LPS but I decided to try this first.

 

[thisisvv]

can some one point me how to get this working.
 
PC -> switch -> RN3-> Mutetc _yggy
 
PC (jriver ) can see the dante Virtaul card....it plays....whats next
 
can someone upload a pic how they have connected Mutec 3 with Rn3???  i dont think we can use coaxial from RN3 to mutec as i don't see any input coaxial on my mutec....what cable connected the RN3 to Mutec...