AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[robi20064]

Thanks, was looking at UK/DE/FR previously and only found this so far (still too high compared to $599):
 
http://www.axente.fr/undaes-o.html

 

[rb2013]

  For instance the Dante transceiver board is ≈ $2-300 (perhaps a bit less in quantity) but that kinda shoots the cheap solution in the foot, and that is only the ethernet input portion of this flavor of a DDC, and the PS and output electronics won't be cheap, if the goal is to keep it at the same (or better) level of SQ as the RedNet boxes.
 

You can buy a full Dante Brooklyn II card for $185 retail - so I don't know where you came up with $200-$300.

 

[rb2013]

  Ok guys. Looked over the web for weeks to find any report for some cheaper AOIP alternative but could not find anything. Finally I took the plunge on the Atterotech unDaes-o that is a cheaper solution than the Rednet. As Bob also mentioned a few times it's based on the Dante Ultimo chipset. Confirmed this also with Josh from Atterotech. By the way he seems a super friendly person that supported me with some additional info on the product. I red what was to read about the differences between the Brooklyn and the Ultimo. Apparently the second one is the more recent but still lower cost solution limited to 24/96. No problem for me still since 99% of my library is redbook quality and my Theta Gen V cannot support higher then 16/44. 
 
To cut it short, coming from my Singxer F-1 I still cannot believe how much of an improvement this little device brought to my chain. Just incredible. Tonal accuracy is unreal. Notes are heavier, more defined without losing speed. Bass depth and reverb with the HD800 is unbelievable. Treble is smoother, extended, more present with zero glare. Usually when I get new gear due to the enthusiasm of the "improvement" I tend to skip tracks without listen them till the end. For the first time this has become somehow difficult. I'm drawn into the music and it's like every track has some new beauty in it.
 
On each little tweak or even major upgrade I have found the HD800 to sound somehow not completely satisfying. The Auralic Taurus although being a solid state amp has been regarded as a warmish device. The Theta Gen V DAC for those who have had the pleasure to listen to is a R2R dac of the 90's and also falls in the warmer gear segment. Still I have never been satisfied with my HD800. Now and finally I can say everything changed and it seems the new Sony Z1R I was planning to purchase in the near future will be postponed for a good while. Cannot believe how much I was missing from my music although the Singxer was still such a great DDC.
 
 
I changed house recently and my system is still a mess but just to render a bit the idea I'm posting a picture since I think I owe it to the community
 
 

Nice! You are the first to post on a Dante Ultimo implementation.  Now there are greater differences then simply SR limits to the Ultimo vs the full Brooklyn I or II cards.  But maybe those are not as important as one would believe.
 
If you could post a board photo that would be great.  Would love to see what kind of clocking they use.
 
Another Dante Ultimo implementation would be the Rednet 2AM - $399  Unfortunately only analog and HP outputs.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RedNetAM2?adpos=1o1&creative=54989476081&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=RedNetAM2&gclid=CIzbwODmktACFUtNfgodtMAKSQ

 

[PCWar]

I'll try to shoot some photos by tomorrow. Here in Tirana is 1 AM so need some quality sleep now

 

[rb2013]

  I'll try to shoot some photos by tomorrow. Here in Tirana is 1 AM so need some quality sleep now

Great - thanks!

 

[InsanityOne]

Just in case anyone was curious, I was able to find the Atterotech unDAES-O  listed on FullCompass for $599. So, not cheap by any means, but still the lowest entry cost to AOIP so far. Now, if only we could get Focusrite to tweak their 2AM into an digital output device at $399, then AOIP would really start becoming the new "norm".
 
- InsanityOne 

 

[johnjen]

  You can buy a full Dante Brooklyn II card for $185 retail - so I don't know where you came up with $200-$300.

Ah, my bad, the last I saw it was in that range.
Thanks for the correction and good to know its cheaper than what I originally saw.
 
JJ

 

[PCWar]

Opening the device doesn't look so simple unfortunately and I'm not risking voiding the warranty. Sorry Bob.
 
That image precision 

 

[Modified]

cheaper AOIP alternative?
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8430a-ip-sam-studio-monitor

 

[mourip]

  cheaper AOIP alternative?
http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-studio-monitors/8430a-ip-sam-studio-monitor

 
It costs almost $2200 for a pair ($1070 ea.) and would certainly need to sound very good as it locks you into it's built in DAC/amp/ and speaker.
 
Might be nice for some applications and is a good start however.

 

[rb2013]

  Ah, my bad, the last I saw it was in that range.
Thanks for the correction and good to know its cheaper than what I originally saw.
 
JJ

The list price for the BURL DANTE BK2 card is $250.  So with a normal markup I estimate the DANTE BK2 card costs them $125.
 
Here is one discounted to $185
http://vintageking.com/burl-audio-bkii-card-for-b2-dac
 
Since the Dante BK2 card supports i2s - and has it's own built in XO clock.  All that is needed is a small board with a mini PCI slot.  One that can power the BK2 and convert the i2s to SPDIF/AES/BNC.  \
 
The Audinate Dante Brooklyn II PDK comes with a robust development package  - but is not cheap.  $10K
 
The package comes with a DANTE API - so a new dedicated one is not really needed. 
also
 
Dante Hardware

1. Four Dante Brooklyn II modules with support for 64 x 64 audio channels
2. Two Brooklyn II Adaptor boards with breakout headers to access the rich set of Brooklyn II development interfaces
3. Two Audio baseboards allowing connection to audio equipment via a range of connectors  

https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-brooklyn-ii-pdk
 
The board could be easily designed for only 2 channels - dc power input - i2s, SPDIF, AES digital output ad sold for under $400.
 
Time to crowd source this development?  The big outlay would be the PDK package and the receiver board design and min order.   Probably $20K would do it.

 

[rb2013]

  Opening the device doesn't look so simple unfortunately and I'm not risking voiding the warranty. Sorry Bob.
 
That image precision 

I understand - much can be gathered from reading the Ultimo PDK page:
https://www.audinate.com/sites/default/files/datasheets/Dante_Ultimo_25-aug-2016_0.pdf

 
 

  Just in case anyone was curious, I was able to find the Atterotech unDAES-O  listed on FullCompass for $599. So, not cheap by any means, but still the lowest entry cost to AOIP so far. Now, if only we could get Focusrite to tweak their 2AM into an digital output device at $399, then AOIP would really start becoming the new "norm".
 
- InsanityOne 

Yes - Focusrite - just add a SPDIF digital output. 

 

[rb2013]

On the Ultimo:
 

 High-quality clocks: Low jitter audio clock synthesis with sample-accurate time alignment between networked devices

Looks like the clocks are generated on the Ultimo ASIC chip - see page 2 of the PDF.
 
Not good.

 

[rb2013]

There is the possibility of a very small AOIP Dante analog output device - the size of a pack of gum:  Maybe less then $200?  Now that would be interesting.  Add a HP opamp output  and you have a AOIP 'AQ Dragonfly' type of device.
 
https://www.audinate.com/products/manufacturer-products/dante-analog-output-module

 

 

Specifications

Physical

1. Input Connector: 1x RJ45 Ethernet
2. Output: 1x or 2x balanced analog connectors

Electrical

1. Power Consumption: < 2 Watt
2. Power over Ethernet: Class 1 802.3af POE PD compliant

Analog Audio

1. Output level (balanced): +4dBu @ 0dBFS
2. Output Impedance: 150 ohm balanced or 75 ohm unbalanced
3. Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz (-/+0.5 dB)
4. Dynamic Range: > 100 dB
5. Signal to Noise: > 100 dB
6. Total Harmonic Distortion: < 0.01% at +4dBu
7. Channel Separation: > 100 dB
8. Channel Matching: < 0.25 dB

Dante Audio

1. Number of Channels: 1 or 2 output channels
2. Sample Rate: 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz (default), and 96 kHz
3. Bit Depth: 24 bits
4. Network Speed: 100 Mbps 

 

 
 
PS - Here you go.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1266502&gclid=CLqdntS8lNACFcdbfgod0DkB4Q&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C52934714882%2C&Q=&A=details
 
$199

PSS Here is a $5 Ethttp://www.flyteccomputers.com/product/609/Tycon-Power-POE-INJ-LED-S-Shielded-POE-Inserter-w-Power-Current-LEDS&wre=1?gclid=COzVg9G9lNACFQ5xfgodPXAA9whernet power inject - so this could be ext LPS powered? Class 1 802.3af POE - 48VDC-never mind.

 

[astrostar59]

 
Did you not read my post?  You are confusing D-S vs R2R noise shaping by oversampling/upsampling with audio wave form interpolation upsampling like in HQ Player and Foobar/SoX.  Yes they are both 'upsampling' as a process - but the implementations are different.
 
Then you confuse DAC 'oversampling' with 'upsampling' filtering with a NOS implementation.
 

Found this, may help to show another opinion:
http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.com.es/2013/11/upsample.html