AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

[rb2013]

Interesting post yesterday about the SMPS in the Rednet D16 - claiming it was $2 worth of parts and had loads of noise:
 

I priced out the Ferex SMPS's in the Rednet 16 and they cost $1.80 a piece in quantities of 1000 pieces. Ripple noise is 150000uV RMS, (likely double P-P). So even if they use the world's finest LDO's the internal clocks aren't getting very clean power. Even with run of the mill clocks, ultra clean power is required to meet phase noise spec of the crystal. 

 

[wushuliu]

  Interesting post yesterday about the SMPS in the Rednet D16 - claiming it was $2 worth of parts and had loads of noise:
 

 
Uh huh. And I'm sure it holds performance back. It would be great if maybe one could convince, say John Swenson, to make a linear supply for the RN3. There is so much room in the chassis that it should not be a problem design-wise.

 

[jabbr]

  Interesting post yesterday about the SMPS in the Rednet D16 - claiming it was $2 worth of parts and had loads of noise:
 

That's a normal value for SMPS; < 1%
 
It requires additional regulators to lower that value. Just like Mike does with his own PSU: an SMPS with additional regulators.

 

[mourip]

Shameless self promotion: I have my second D16 for sale in the For Sale/Trade Forum...
 
I love the sound of my RedNet AOIP based speaker system so much that I want to upgrade my speakers now to let more magic out...

 

[gldgate]

   
I'm interested in the Burl and have read this before. Can you explain the significance of this to a relative newbie? Thanks.....

 
I've had pretty positive experiences on the whole with discrete op-amps. Before I purchased the Yggy I used (and still have) a Eastern Electric Dac Supreme and the thing I liked best about it was that it allowed op-amp swapping. I tried Burson, Dexa and Sparkos discretes (and combinations thereof) and on the whole really thought they were a step up from IC opamps. Please note that tonally they range the gammut so a lot of the success will depend on voicing and system compatability. For example, in my system the Burson had a more weighty mid range sound while Dexa was uber clear with great top end extension. Sparkos seemed to be somewhere in the middle. Not sure where Burl fits on the sonic spectrum in comparision...

 

[rb2013]

   
Uh huh. And I'm sure it holds performance back. It would be great if maybe one could convince, say John Swenson, to make a linear supply for the RN3. There is so much room in the chassis that it should not be a problem design-wise.

That would be beneficial.  Just wish that the Rednet's and the Mutec had ext DC power inputs.
 

  That's a normal value for SMPS; < 1%
 
It requires additional regulators to lower that value. Just like Mike does with his own PSU: an SMPS with additional regulators.

Better a well designed LPS
 

  Shameless self promotion: I have my second D16 for sale in the For Sale/Trade Forum...
 
I love the sound of my RedNet AOIP based speaker system so much that I want to upgrade my speakers now to let more magic out...

Good Luck

 

[rb2013]

   
I've had pretty positive experiences on the whole with discrete op-amps. Before I purchased the Yggy I used (and still have) a Eastern Electric Dac Supreme and the thing I liked best about it was that it allowed op-amp swapping. I tried Burson, Dexa and Sparkos discretes (and combinations thereof) and on the whole really thought they were a step up from IC opamps. Please note that tonally they range the gammut so a lot of the success will depend on voicing and system compatability. For example, in my system the Burson had a more weighty mid range sound while Dexa was uber clear with great top end extension. Sparkos seemed to be somewhere in the middle. Not sure where Burl fits on the sonic spectrum in comparision...

I had the EE Mini Max Plus - did some tube rolling but never got around to opamp rolling.
 
I'd say the BURL discrete opamps are voiced to sound analog - that is tube like - with a rich natural tone.
 
Now I'm a big tube DAC fan - and the very best NOS tubes are better I would say.

 

[motberg]

 
Dante does support i2s natively. 
 
  But with a board level socket - no internal cable is required.

Thanks for the info...
Maybe the board-level socket would be optimal to eliminate the wires, but what I am thinking is what would limit someone from making a Dante->i2S adapter card similar to Amanero or XMOS (see links), that would allow a DIY upgrade option to many existing DAC's, while also allowing OEM makers to offer as upgrade or optional input.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/upgrade-Amanero-USB-I2S-module-PCM-combo384-module-support-DSD512-for-ES9018-DAC-/141925693025?hash=item210b6e3661:g:LCkAAOSwDNdVmjV5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-XMOS-U8-USB-384K-32B-module-I2S-SPDIF-output-support-DSD-for-es9018-DAC-/272365711256?hash=item3f6a42ef98:g:XloAAOSwvzRXzZE-
 
The card could also be used to build an external box for someone who has an i2S input DAC, which could have the added benefit of possibly easier upgrades to the power supply... this box could maybe be small/light, like a Regen, Recovery, mRendu, etc so as to hang off the back of the DAC using an adapter or very short cable.
 
Maybe the problem is Dante module cost, size, or licensing the virtual sound card software... but the target audiophile market should be sufficient to support this device, given the possible cost to performance ratio advantage of AOIP - compared to what we are finding is optimal (GI, regenerate, PS, etc.) for USB.

 

[johnjen]

So has anyone wrung out the PS voltage(s) supplied in the D16 and RN3 yet?
 
JJ

 

[jelt2359]

The RN3 uses five rails, two balanced power supplies and a very high voltage supply. There are 3.3v regulators after the power supply. I personally am not sure it's worth the effort.

 

[rb2013]

 
Thanks for the info...
Maybe the board-level socket would be optimal to eliminate the wires, but what I am thinking is what would limit someone from making a Dante->i2S adapter card similar to Amanero or XMOS (see links), that would allow a DIY upgrade option to many existing DAC's, while also allowing OEM makers to offer as upgrade or optional input.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/upgrade-Amanero-USB-I2S-module-PCM-combo384-module-support-DSD512-for-ES9018-DAC-/141925693025?hash=item210b6e3661:g:LCkAAOSwDNdVmjV5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-XMOS-U8-USB-384K-32B-module-I2S-SPDIF-output-support-DSD-for-es9018-DAC-/272365711256?hash=item3f6a42ef98:g:XloAAOSwvzRXzZE-
 
The card could also be used to build an external box for someone who has an i2S input DAC, which could have the added benefit of possibly easier upgrades to the power supply... this box could maybe be small/light, like a Regen, Recovery, mRendu, etc so as to hang off the back of the DAC using an adapter or very short cable.
 
Maybe the problem is Dante module cost, size, or licensing the virtual sound card software... but the target audiophile market should be sufficient to support this device, given the possible cost to performance ratio advantage of AOIP - compared to what we are finding is optimal (GI, regenerate, PS, etc.) for USB.

Yes that would a be a welcomed product.  No reason it couldn't be made and sold for less then $500.  Ext DC power port would be most welcome.  Just need a AES. SPDIF coax, i2s output - no inputs

 

[rb2013]

The RN3 uses five rails, two balanced power supplies and a very high voltage supply. There are 3.3v regulators after the power supply. I personally am not sure it's worth the effort.

Have you measured the noise coming off those rails?  If the OP statement is true - those very high levels of noise must be affecting the clocks.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

If this were the case, what does that say about USB chains running ultra clean power if the Rednet by itself in stock form outperforms them? And not the clocks are possibly not being supplied proper? Whoa.

 

[rb2013]

If this were the case, what does that say about USB chains running ultra clean power if the Rednet by itself in stock form outperforms them? And not the clocks are possibly not being supplied proper? Whoa.

Yes!  I can say the BURL on a LPS is a major step up in SQ.  And that's just a HW recapped DC-30W with a DC iPur.
 
Maybe will give the new Uptone LPS-1 a try.  Or build something up from scratch.
 
Before the XU208 thread was closed a lot of interesting discussion on power supplies.

 

[johnjen]

The RN3 uses five rails, two balanced power supplies and a very high voltage supply. There are 3.3v regulators after the power supply. I personally am not sure it's worth the effort.

That's good to know, thanks! 

 
Did you get a chance to take any voltage measurements?
And perhaps a pin out on the ribbon cable?
And do the differential voltages have a common ground between them?
 
And if this info isn't readily available, maybe I'll just scope it out and measure the noise as well.
 
JJ