Audio-gd R2R DAC Thread

[Nayyte]

I actually like the way they reply because they explain honestly without attaching personal impression. If you read between the lines the PCM1704UK is probably a more colored sound and not as technical sounding as the R series. This is very hard to weigh because a too technical DAC can also be deal-breaker, which it is for me.

As an example the R8HEMK2 is and I know on every spec there is, better than R1N. I can hear it. It is better. But experience is different. R1N is just the best DAC for headphones I have ever tried. Why? - this is exactly because of it flaws. It is not as separated in L-R, and have a natural crossfeed sound to it.

Sometimes what we think as downsides could mean very posititve things.

---

My R8HEMK2 is still waiting for the speaker solution....

I agree with this 100%, The R-1NOS is such a unique combination of rich imagining and intimate sound stage. Quiet instruments are just right in front of you. Your brain doesn't even think about the room of the recording at all, a really nice experience when you are adjusted. What interests me greatly with the HE-8 is that it has the potential to do the same things for headphones that the R1N does. Only problem is that what I loved about the R1N could be nearly lost in the HE-8 due to it not being a full dedicated ladder design.

Also, and maybe this is worth more weight than the above statement, but all this talk about "oh this sound is too detailed and not relaxing but the R1N is the complete opposite" could be the result of the tuning work that Audio-GD did throughout covid vs the older pre-2020 tuning. Maybe all their DAC's now will have favorable tonality like the R1N, especially in NOS mode.

 

[Lickumms]

What difference does the R8 PCM1704UK make over the standard R8/HE?

 

[Nayyte]

What difference does the R8 PCM1704UK make over the standard R8/HE?

I asked a similar question and this is their answer. I believe it applies to the R-8 mk3 quite a bit. You have the mk2 right? If you are no completely satisfied with it's sound then trying the HE-8 is a no brainer. The mk2 vs mk3 R-8 won't differ much in presentation/tonality but the pcm1704 will not sound the same.

Option 1: upgrade to mk3 or R8HE. Good but you've just doubled your investment for a very similar sound.

Option 2: upgrade to HE-8 PCM1704. You get new/different sound experience and you get HE power supply upgrade.

If I was you I would try the PCM1704 and I would be super excited to here it. Audio-gd are saying that it's a different tonal preference for people that don't want the full detail of their dedicated r2r ladders.

 

[OCC7N]

R8HMK2 has no flaws in the sound, it is really a technical wonder. This DAC needs good productions. It delivers everything flawlessly with ease, which makes detail that are hidden on the R1N pop out more one R8HMK2. Every information can be heard. It is soo capable that it gets “bored” and wants you to play the most challenging music you have. It has such a stillness in the sound that it is simply just the music. The amount of capacity or authority is endgame certified for me!

This DAC is ultra-experience for me. Only the Susvara can tame the sound. R1N can make the cheapest headphone sound great.

Simply put: Relaxed, laid-back, authority.

It “lack” tiny bit of energy/emotions vs the R1N(this is preference/taste). I find myself picking up my phone or doing something else. I can work relaxed on my computer or doing multitask with the R8HMK2.

The R1N is a direct translation of the music my attention is locked to the sound. The flaws of this dac makes the sound so realistic. It is a pure joy ride everyday.

The R1N should be developed and worked on. The energy/emotion it has is breathtaking. Highly technical but not as capable/resolving as the R8HMK2.

It comes down to the output also. R8HMK2 really need good headphones or speaker.

My speakers just dropped in so I will be comparing both dacs on active speakers.

Every impression I have had so far was ONLY headphones, so I am excited. Only waiting for the stands

 

[sajunky]

My speakers just dropped in so I will be comparing both dacs on active speakers.

Surely you don't mean 'active' speakers that use digital input, right? What is the amp?


I am sure you will like both DACs on speakers more than with HP's. And I suspect R-8HE will produce enough energy and rhythm, will be fully appreciated.

 

[Nayyte]

My speakers just dropped in so I will be comparing both dacs on active speakers.

I already know which you will prefer, R1N absolutely killed it with my floorstandingspeakers when I had it.

 

[OCC7N]

Surely you don't mean 'active' speakers that use digital input, right? What is the amp?


I am sure you will like both DACs on speakers more than with HP's. And I suspect R-8HE will produce enough energy and rhythm, will be fully appreciated.

Yeah it has DSP setting for room/placement. CLASS D - still analog inputs

Not worried that much as the sound I have in the headphone is to the warmer side.

I already know which you will prefer, R1N absolutely killed it with my floorstandingspeakers when I had it.

One thing R8HEMK2 masters is levelling of the sound, also the balance between L/R. I am just assuming it will be better because of this reason. However the slight imbalance/crossfeed R1N could be fascinating for vocals upfront

I will split the setup into two. If I do not see a release of headamp the size of R1N, I will maybe get the Master 9MK2 for desktop

 

[Lickumms]

R8HMK2 has no flaws in the sound, it is really a technical wonder. This DAC needs good productions. It delivers everything flawlessly with ease, which makes detail that are hidden on the R1N pop out more one R8HMK2. Every information can be heard. It is soo capable that it gets “bored” and wants you to play the most challenging music you have. It has such a stillness in the sound that it is simply just the music. The amount of capacity or authority is endgame certified for me!

This DAC is ultra-experience for me. Only the Susvara can tame the sound. R1N can make the cheapest headphone sound great.

Simply put: Relaxed, laid-back, authority.

It “lack” tiny bit of energy/emotions vs the R1N(this is preference/taste). I find myself picking up my phone or doing something else. I can work relaxed on my computer or doing multitask with the R8HMK2.

The R1N is a direct translation of the music my attention is locked to the sound. The flaws of this dac makes the sound so realistic. It is a pure joy ride everyday.

The R1N should be developed and worked on. The energy/emotion it has is breathtaking. Highly technical but not as capable/resolving as the R8HMK2.

It comes down to the output also. R8HMK2 really need good headphones or speaker.

My speakers just dropped in so I will be comparing both dacs on active speakers.

Every impression I have had so far was ONLY headphones, so I am excited. Only waiting for the stands

What settings/filter are you running on?

 

[OCC7N]

What settings/filter are you running on?

It is hard to answer. Mostly NOS(N1)

Depending on sonics from cable, if it is warm textured(zero soundstage) like Supra I am pushing it to the max OS8. This is key, one of the best features of the DAC!

 

[Nayyte]

When I had my R1N set up for the first time in my room feeding my speakers, it really felt like everything you want from the music. Engagement, richness, grit in the trimbre, complete absence of flat presentations. Sometimes singers/instruments sound like they are up against the walls, still good but it feels like your listening to the room, not the case here. I remember that the R1N made the speakers vanish and the sound was filling the air in the room so well. The lack of uber soundstage in the R1N plus its lushness just was so great when I had it.

It's odd ya know, I can still talk so fondly about the R1N even though I've been using oversampling DACs for the past 3 months. I remember really not liking the R1N when I did A/B comparison. One thing that I have not been able to replicate is that pure magic in the timbre of R2R + Tubes created for me, rich tonality that DS dacs can only scratch at while providing 110% in everything else.

I have been using a dual AKM4499 dac for a few weeks and while its great, it's too insicive for my speed. Like I can only get the level of engagement I'm after with live recordings or super masters, the R1N having zero preference. The R1N really presents so much gravity transitioning between quiet and loud passages, like from ground floor to floor 100. With the AKM dac its more like a 5 story building, still good but not nearly as emotionally envoking. Haha I'm really making up crap now. But the R1N was such an emotional experience with my tube amp and speaker setup.

Call me crazy but I think the "dirtyness" of the R1N's soundstage and its very woven together instrument presentation was just so blissfull. I'm not sure what causes it. Whether its their NOS tuning or more of a simplified hardware assortment under the hood. I would be afraid to purchase anything else from Audio-GD because I'd be dissapointed if I lost these traits. It is really a shame that OS dacs smack the R1N in detail, soundstage, and separation.

If we had an beefed up R1N with HE power and a "it only gets better, not different" tuning, wow that would be amazing. Personally I think I would have a hard time going back to the R1N from an OS dac unless I could somehow squeeze more performance out of it. @OCC7N

Anyways, I have a Bel Canto Dac 2.8 coming in the mail tomorrow. Price was too good and there isn't a single negative review about it. Burrbrown PCM1792 based. The dac hunt continues.

 

[Nayyte]

Wait, does the R1N do any reclocking at all? Reading the page makes me believe that its dependant on the source clock only. Maybe my impressions are all skewed because of this?

 

[OCC7N]

Anyways, I have a Bel Canto Dac 2.8 coming in the mail tomorrow. Price was too good and there isn't a single negative review about it. Burrbrown PCM1792 based. The dac hunt continues.

Interesting DAC. I am also curious about BB. However I hope I find a good Cirrus Logic based one first, with good discrete amp out.

Wait, does the R1N do any reclocking at all? Reading the page makes me believe that its dependant on the source clock only. Maybe my impressions are all skewed because of this?

I think I have tried 5-10 sources. It sounds different. It just sounds got damn simple and understandable, digestable. I must be a NOS fan. My brain just says. This is music! - everytime I play the R1N.

—-
Going from poor to good sources what changes is: that the music goes to a landscape. From in the head experience and more pushed out

 

[Nayyte]

Interesting DAC. I am also curious about BB. However I hope I find a good Cirrus Logic based one first, with good discrete amp out.


I think I have tried 5-10 sources. It sounds different. It just sounds got damn simple and understandable, digestable. I must be a NOS fan. My brain just says. This is music! - everytime I play the R1N.

—-
Going from poor to good sources what changes is: that the music goes to a landscape.

I agree about NOS, I do miss it. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to go back, I will have a clearer idea of the direction I need to go. Yeah I could just buy the R-1 again, but I think Audio-Gd is missing out on a fully dedicated NOS upgrade to the R-1. R-10 NOS maybe

 

[sajunky]

Yeah it has DSP setting for room/placement. CLASS D - still analog inputs

Oh no!!!

I suspected the worse, now is it. Class D amp with NOS DAC..... I tried TPA325x, Icepower with R2R-11... It is a disaster.

You will get all ultrasonic noise modulated back to the audio band. Initialy very clean, but highly fatiguing. Power amps have no sufficient filtering, as it is assumed to be clean above Nyquist. First order LP filter is typical, while I am affraid a second order filter is not enough. And even if it does proper filtering (which I doubt), there will be 3dB roll off at 20kHz plus extra what a LP filter do.

Leave Class D for Delta-Sigma my friend. Sorry.
R-8 with x8 will sound better, but there is still a lot of ultrasonic switching noise which will be intermodulating with sound.

 

[OCC7N]

Oh no!!!

I suspected the worse, now is it. Class D amp with NOS DAC..... I tried TPA325x, Icepower with R2R-11... It is a disaster.

You will get all ultrasonic noise modulated back to the audio band. Initialy very clean, but highly fatiguing. Power amps have no sufficient filtering, as it is assumed to be clean above Nyquist. First order LP filter is typical, while I am affraid a second order filter is not enough. And even if it does proper filtering (which I doubt), there will be 3dB roll off at 20kHz plus extra what a LP filter do.

Leave Class D for Delta-Sigma my friend. Sorry.
R-8 with x8 will sound better, but there is still a lot of ultrasonic switching noise which will be intermodulating with sound.

No worries if I hear anything unwanted I will sent it back.