[ku1185]

Call me a madman!

I bought a receiver today to get an initial setup for my stereo system. Naturally I have to plug in the R-1 NOS. Listening to only the headphone output with my ZMF Auteur OG. For a 25+ year old amp, this nakamichi does pretty well and I'm not missing out any detail. This really proves to me that both the DAC and the AMP mean a lot when you are making a audio chain, but also it's unltimately the DAC that controls the resolution and detail of your system. Like you said @OCC7N, the bass here is pretty serious. I don't know for sure if this amp is elevating it more than the DAC, but it's on the boomy side with a wide bass shelf increase. I will be testing with my questyle as a DAC only tomorrow and also will test the R-1 NOS with speakers!

Also something to point out with the R-1 NOS. Some recordings can lack necessary engagement to the music. Slower music is good but fast music (old recordings) can suffer. This DAC really grabs the recording and shoves the PRaT through all it's fancy circuitry. What you get is super refined, smooth, airy, and lush. Sometimes all the instruments individually sound so good that when you put them all together in the end, it can be too powerful. Some music doesn't get like this and is perfect. Music that has a lot happening, where the background has consistent volume levels between instruments is what this DAC doesn't like. Masterful recordings and masters with fluctuating volume/depth to all the instruments and vocals is where this DAC does it's magic. So I guess if the song has poor soundstage then it will be too much to listen to and get fatiguing. My example is go listen to "Depth of my Soul" by thievery corporation and then "Renegade" by TSHA. The later of the two sounding far better fatigue wise. Good in, great out and the inverse is true. London grammar is also a great example for superb performance with this DAC.

Can I ask what you're using to feed the R-1 NOS? USB? Bit depth? I recently found that with my r2r-11mk2 via USB, 16 and 24 bit depth just doesn't sound as good as using 32 bit. Don't know why but that's what I'm noticing. That limits what and how I listen to stuff, so it's kind of a head scratcher. I suspect something to do with the USB. Might be worth testing if you're able with your setup. If you do, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

EDIT: Turns out my issue was something else (bad nearby power supply, even though it was plugged into a separate power conditioner from my audio devices). I still think 32-bit sounds different for some reason, but not necessarily better.

 

[sajunky]

I recently found that with my r2r-11mk2 via USB, 16 and 24 bit depth just doesn't sound as good as using 32 bit. Don't know why but that's what I'm noticing. That limits what and how I listen to stuff, so it's kind of a head scratcher. I suspect something to do with the USB. Might be worth testing if you're able with your setup. If you do, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

There is no many true 32-bit source music. Is it a vinyl rip or web download studio master? Is it 32-bit integer format like a common hires 24-bit music or 32-bit floating point? In Foobar 2000 press second mouse button on the track (or ALT+ENTER on a selected track) and select 'Properties', it will display such details on the second tab.

Do your player change output bit depth automatically? In my Foobar (not the latest version) I have to select bit depth output manually. In such way I can test how sound is changing while playing the same music. In other words, I can play 24-bit music using 32-bit USB transfers. If sound improves, then there is something peculiar to a DAC.

[EDIT] on a first thought, but could be USB source too.

Such bit-depth setting behaviour depends on the selected output device and a Foobar version. Is it WASAPI Exclusive or ASIO?

On the screenshot there is example of 32-bit FP format. BTW, a prime quality rip, sounds better than the official Web download.

 

[OCC7N]

Call me a madman!

I bought a receiver today to get an initial setup for my stereo system. Naturally I have to plug in the R-1 NOS. Listening to only the headphone output with my ZMF Auteur OG. For a 25+ year old amp, this nakamichi does pretty well and I'm not missing out any detail. This really proves to me that both the DAC and the AMP mean a lot when you are making a audio chain, but also it's unltimately the DAC that controls the resolution and detail of your system. Like you said @OCC7N, the bass here is pretty serious. I don't know for sure if this amp is elevating it more than the DAC, but it's on the boomy side with a wide bass shelf increase. I will be testing with my questyle as a DAC only tomorrow and also will test the R-1 NOS with speakers!

Also something to point out with the R-1 NOS. Some recordings can lack necessary engagement to the music. Slower music is good but fast music (old recordings) can suffer. This DAC really grabs the recording and shoves the PRaT through all it's fancy circuitry. What you get is super refined, smooth, airy, and lush. Sometimes all the instruments individually sound so good that when you put them all together in the end, it can be too powerful. Some music doesn't get like this and is perfect. Music that has a lot happening, where the background has consistent volume levels between instruments is what this DAC doesn't like. Masterful recordings and masters with fluctuating volume/depth to all the instruments and vocals is where this DAC does it's magic. So I guess if the song has poor soundstage then it will be too much to listen to and get fatiguing. My example is go listen to "Depth of my Soul" by thievery corporation and then "Renegade" by TSHA. The later of the two sounding far better fatigue wise. Good in, great out and the inverse is true. London grammar is also a great example for superb performance with this DAC.

@Nayyte before my first 100 hours of burnin I also found it not to be able to play high traffics of sound but....it does with the right headphone

Sometimes it sounds like a toy and sometimes it sounds better than R8 to my likings. The R8 also have a emphasized lowend. They both need very capable headphones/speakers. They need headroom. This is first time I really notice it, after my impressions on R-1 NOS.

Headphones I have tried: HE400SE, HE1000V2s, Susvara.

HE400SE: The lowend is soo immense I had to eq it so much it kind of lost the authority.

HE1000V2s: This was en eye-opener and opened up the definition and room for the lowend, it needed little EQ, but wow!!!

Susvara: Was another experience. It got more honest and like. It is amazing how different it sound.

R-1 NOS is interesting because it is so different and capable of giving me goosebumps sometimes.

I want to say HE1000V2s is the best pairing, but wow on Susvara!(80% Justice)

 

[Nayyte]

Can I ask what you're using to feed the R-1 NOS? USB? Bit depth? I recently found that with my r2r-11mk2 via USB, 16 and 24 bit depth just doesn't sound as good as using 32 bit. Don't know why but that's what I'm noticing. That limits what and how I listen to stuff, so it's kind of a head scratcher. I suspect something to do with the USB. Might be worth testing if you're able with your setup. If you do, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

I'm just using a straight USB connection to my computer for now. I only listen to Spotify on my PC and I have tested 24/32 bit and I cannot tell the difference. I always run 24 bit 192 on PC and 44.1 for my CD transport. My CD's always sound noticably better than my Spotify.

 

[Nayyte]

@Nayyte before my first 100 hours of burnin I also found it not to be able to play high traffics of sound but....it does with the right headphone

Sometimes it sounds like a toy and sometimes it sounds better than R8 to my likings. The R8 also have a emphasized lowend. They both need very capable headphones/speakers. They need headroom. This is first time I really notice it, after my impressions on R-1 NOS.

Headphones I have tried: HE400SE, HE1000V2s, Susvara.

HE400SE: The lowend is soo immense I had to eq it so much it kind of lost the authority.

HE1000V2s: This was en eye-opener and opened up the definition and room for the lowend, it needed little EQ, but wow!!!

Susvara: Was another experience. It got more honest and like. It is amazing how different it sound.

R-1 NOS is interesting because it is so different and capable of giving me goosebumps sometimes.

I want to say HE1000V2s is the best pairing, but wow on Susvara!(80% Justice)

Yeah the burn in period requires much patience. I have though of going back to a PCM DAC but I know now just how good the vocals on r2r can be. When you find something new that makes your music sound different and better at the same time, it's hard to go back. I have considered a Questyle cas192d as a replacement.

No EQ allowed for me! You could say I'm in the anti-eq club. I've found that if a headphone needs eq than it usually needs more than just eq to get it to a worthwhile ownership state. Also I've owned around 6 different planars now and hated them all in favor of dynamics at all price ranges. Bass is just so thin for me. The LCD-3 came really close to what I wanted but the overall darkness of the uppermids and highs plus the weight is what killed it. Really would have love to keep that one.

 

[ku1185]

There is no many true 32-bit source music. Is it a vinyl rip or web download studio master? Is it 32-bit integer format like a common hires 24-bit music or 32-bit floating point? In Foobar 2000 press second mouse button on the track (or ALT+ENTER on a selected track) and select 'Properties', it will display such details on the second tab.

Do your player change output bit depth automatically? In my Foobar (not the latest version) I have to select bit depth output manually. In such way I can test how sound is changing while playing the same music. In other words, I can play 24-bit music using 32-bit USB transfers. If sound improves, then there is something peculiar to a DAC.

[EDIT] on a first thought, but could be USB source too.

Such bit-depth setting behaviour depends on the selected output device and a Foobar version. Is it WASAPI Exclusive or ASIO?

On the screenshot there is example of 32-bit FP format. BTW, a prime quality rip, sounds better than the official Web download.

None of my music was 32 bit, but changing Windows to 32 bit or foobar or hqplayer to 32 bit seemed to yield a distinctly different sound from 24 bit. I was having issues recently with sound and thought 32 bit sounded better than 24 bit. That said, last night, after powering everything down, I heard a whining/buzzing noise. I traced it to phone charger plugged into another power strip near my desk. I removed it, gave everything another listen, and it all sounds good now. 32 bit still sounds different than using 16 or 24, but don't know now that it sounds better. I also plugged that power strip into another outlet in the room, just in case.

Not sure how that bad phone charger could have affected any of this (especially when all my audio related stuff is plugged into a Furman power conditioner-PL-8) but just happy it's no longer an issue =).

 

[sajunky]

None of my music was 32 bit, but changing Windows to 32 bit or foobar or hqplayer to 32 bit seemed to yield a distinctly different sound from 24 bit. I was having issues recently with sound and thought 32 bit sounded better than 24 bit. That said, last night, after powering everything down, I heard a whining/buzzing noise. I traced it to phone charger plugged into another power strip near my desk. I removed it, gave everything another listen, and it all sounds good now. 32 bit still sounds different than using 16 or 24, but don't know now that it sounds better. I also plugged that power strip into another outlet in the room, just in case.

Not sure how that bad phone charger could have affected any of this (especially when all my audio related stuff is plugged into a Furman power conditioner-PL-8) but just happy it's no longer an issue =).

Changing word size to 32-bit should not affect sound quality. But if you can play your music with better quality by selecting 32-bit word size, it is at least a workaround. But problem is serious and noise from a charger is alarming as well.

Amanero receiver is very robust. It is something wrong with USB interface - not negotiating asynchronous transfers, IMO. Calls like that is a past, solved couple years ago.

Do you use any USB reclockers? Try a direct cable connection and a different one if doesn't help or the basic USB 2.0 hub. Please post a screenshot of the Foobar Preferences - > Playback - > Output page, with an expanded Device field to show list of devices and the one you are currently using.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I guess thats is a way to "upsample" and it's a lot cheaper than a Chord M-Scaler

 

[ku1185]

Changing word size to 32-bit should not affect sound quality. But if you can play your music with better quality by selecting 32-bit word size, it is at least a workaround. But problem is serious and noise from a charger is alarming as well.

Amanero receiver is very robust. It is something wrong with USB interface - not negotiating asynchronous transfers, IMO. Calls like that is a past, solved couple years ago.

Do you use any USB reclockers? Try a direct cable connection and a different one if doesn't help or the basic USB 2.0 hub. Please post a screenshot of the Foobar Preferences - > Playback - > Output page, with an expanded Device field to show list of devices and the one you are currently using.

I use a powered hub, and tried it without external power as well as directly to laptop.

But now I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my power conditioner to be letting that noise through. But I dont know, problem is fixed now so I'm happy.

And yeah, I'm not sure why using 32 but sounds different than using 16/24. I assume something with amanero board or firmware.

 

[sajunky]

And yeah, I'm not sure why using 32 but sounds different than using 16/24. I assume something with amanero board or firmware.

Screenshots?

 

[ku1185]

There's a screenshot of my foobar preferences-->output-->devices tab. When I switch the Amanero USB Driver (in exclusive mode) Bits to 32, it changes the sound that's distinct from 16 or 24. Also noticeable when I change the settings in Windows sound drivers and listen using Amazon Music.

Hard to describe how it changes but maybe slightly less blurry or more focused sounding in 32 bit. Seems like stage improves as well.

When the bad phone charger was still plugged in, using 16/24 bits there would be a sense of graininess or a background static type of noise when music get very busy and loud. But it sounded cleaner when using 32 bit.

Now with the bad phone charger out of the way, 16/24 sounds more euphonic and maybe more dynamic, though 32 still sounds a little more focused and cleaner.

 

[sajunky]

There's a screenshot of my foobar preferences-->output-->devices tab. When I switch the Amanero USB Driver (in exclusive mode) Bits to 32, it changes the sound that's distinct from 16 or 24. Also noticeable when I change the settings in Windows sound drivers and listen using Amazon Music.

Hard to describe how it changes but maybe slightly less blurry or more focused sounding in 32 bit. Seems like stage improves as well.

When the bad phone charger was still plugged in, using 16/24 bits there would be a sense of graininess or a background static type of noise when music get very busy and loud. But it sounded cleaner when using 32 bit.

Now with the bad phone charger out of the way, 16/24 sounds more euphonic and maybe more dynamic, though 32 still sounds a little more focused and cleaner.

Hmm. The one explanation comes to my mind that noise is so significant that there are random errors. Frames do not arrive bit perfect. Charger gives early warning, a sign of breaking synchronisation. Changing to 32-bit word depth change a timing for more immune to errors. Once talking about timing, it comes to other thought, it could be run out condition in core driver stack.

Did you try ASIO output?

I have two suggestions. If ASIO doesn't help, unplug DAC and uninstall Amanero drivers. It will change to a different transfer mode. Maybe Windows have changed priorities. Without drivers Amanero works in UAC 2.0 mode, timing is more controlled by Windows. You will see Amanero device name instead of a Digital Interface. A second suggestion is to try a different PC/laptop.

The last option is that Amanero receiver is failing. How long are USB cables?

 

[ku1185]

Hmm. The one explanation comes to my mind that noise is so significant that there are random errors. Frames do not arrive bit perfect. Charger gives early warning, a sign of breaking synchronisation. Changing to 32-bit word depth change a timing for more immune to errors. Once talking about timing, it comes to other thought, it could be run out condition in core driver stack.

Did you try ASIO output?

I have two suggestions. If ASIO doesn't help, unplug DAC and uninstall Amanero drivers. It will change to a different transfer mode. Maybe Windows have changed priorities. Without drivers Amanero works in UAC 2.0 mode, timing is more controlled by Windows. You will see Amanero device name instead of a Digital Interface. A second suggestion is to try a different PC/laptop.

The last option is that Amanero receiver is failing. How long are USB cables?

Ooh, I will try uninstalling the Amanero drivers. I haven't tried that yet.

I've tried a bunch of cables, most of them 3ft, some 1ft and 6ft ones. I also tried on desktop, laptop, phone, (all of them in airplane mode) and raspberry pi (but i don't have a good power supply for it). I couldn't test 32 bit out of phone or pi though.

 

[JerseyD]

I'm just using a straight USB connection to my computer for now. I only listen to Spotify on my PC and I have tested 24/32 bit and I cannot tell the difference. I always run 24 bit 192 on PC and 44.1 for my CD transport. My CD's always sound noticably better than my Spotify.

Would love for you to sign up for a free trial of a higher resolution streaming service like Qobuz and see if that changes things. I would have predicted that a CD player sounds better than Spotify. But I have been very curious as to how a R2R NOS DAC like the R1 handles higher bitrate files. Does it inherently “dumb them down” before passing them through the analogue jacks?

 

[Nayyte]

Photo cross posted from "show us your current setup". Running the R-1 NOS from my 6000cdt via coax, then into the nakamichi. Granted I'm not listening to Spotify but I still have all the same settings on the receiver. Compared to the other night this isn't giving me a boomy bass like I had before and it sounds actually really nice. Not sure if I would call this totl but for the OG Auteur, the background is clean and I'm hearing all the needed detail. Vocals are superb, something this DAC never lets me forget. Wanna know the kicker? Last night my nakamichi receiver was plugged into the wall while here I have both plugged into the power conditioner. It seems that you really have to test these things to find the best result.

Next question is with this sub $200 receiver sounding as good as it does, how far am I willing to go for marginally better sound and more features for headphones?