[ProtegeManiac]

  Have you heard the Precision 1?  I'm trying to figure out if the how different the sound quality is between the P1 and the P2.  My other question is which of his headphone amps is the the Precision 2 based off?  Or would it be better just to ask Kingwa himself?

 

From what I can understand about the circuit it isn't based on any of the others - the Precision series amps were designed as speaker amps that can drive headphones using essentially the same output stage.

 

As for the differences, my guess is not much - the main difference is the dual mono power supply on one of them. I can see it making an audible difference on a speaker with any combination of low impedance (4ohm), low efficiency, and multiple drivers with a crossover design that presents a load that swings far from nominal, but for headphones I'm not too sure if you even get to a point of audible distortion on the non-dual mono design for such a feature to matter. Electrostats might be the exception though.

 

[ventrumarcus]

I've heard both P1 and P2 with NFB1 and Master 7. There was Master 9 (custom HE-6 version) as well. Well there was a difference between three amps comparing with HE-6. DACs had their difference but not equal to the price tag. I've spent two hours and found out P2 is a way better than P1, though description on audio-gd web said the headphone out is the same. It may be the sample i've heard though. P2 was very close to M9, a bit warm perhaps. I didn't notice great difference in detail and transparency, at least on the tracks the owner had. HE-6 sounded no special to me. Then i got to high gain output on P2 and that was something. The power was enough to drive an air in and out thru grilles (stock headphones, nothing taken out, resisting some free air movement). It's a sub bass levels sound pressure like when you're stroking your palms closer to your ears and further for about 10cm 4-5 times a second. on the midrange the stage came closer and more "around".  Brighter, unveiled like. Again, it may be just the power loving nature of HE-6. A good example for that is Vangelis Blade runner OST "main titles".
I think all these amps are neutral, there is no grainy or harsh character. Master 7+P2 was out of my budget, it sounded silky neutral, presenting the colder character of HE-6. I've picked NFB1 and P2 with HE-6. NFB1 sounded a bit warmer and alive and less revealing to the track quality.
Removed the grilles, stuffing and replaced the ear pads with Beyerdynamic 770 velour, leaving the driver opened on both sides. The only cans i have, can share these impressions only. The volume control is 0-79 in both modes. I'm using high gain up to 24 on depending on the track volume. 11-12 is enough usually, while low gain is 55-60. Dead silent at any volume, the steps are not equal i can feel a bigger increase every 4-5 steps. The amp is solid done to me, with metal heat sink typed body. it's relatively warm driving headphones in summer, getting warmer with floor speakers connected to it. P2 was a good match for Focal Aria 948, with plenty of power on demand. I haven't tried direct speaker out for HE-6 yet.

 

[Bombik]

Hi ventrumarcus,
I am strongly considering this as an upgrade from stock denon 1500ae.
What is you experience with driving speakers?
What about music scene, instruments separation and localisation. I read some reviews of precision 1 and they say the space is good left/right but somehow flat when it should go to deep. Everything is simply too close. My thought is that it can be result of single power design and P2 with dual mono handles space better. PLease do you have any experience with this?

 

[Bombik]

Well, finally I have precision 2 bought and delivered. Initial impresions: Sound is very clear, airy, a bit light (comparing to denon PMA1500).
I will give it more time for warm. I also had to change sound character of my DAC19. Thank god it is possible to change from very dry and analytic (which is not pleasat to my ears) to warm with deep bass and good highs (which I really enjoy). I also tested different RCA interconnects and ACSS on contrary. Result is ACSS is winner. Provides more details with richer sound, deeper bass, not dry anymore. For this I use this settings on my DAC19:
- Dithering off
- PLL on
- 50db for stopband
- NOS
Overall I can highly reccomend this combo DAC 19 ACSS, Precision 2, Thanks to the high variability of DAC19. Fortunately I was not forced to stay with default setting of the DAC but there is a posibility to change sound depending on yout favor and rest of chain.. Speakers are bookshelf Xavian Junior XN125.
I will come back with more feedback after some time and if anyone is interested.

 

[headphones1999]

awesome, have fun
 
now where is the pictures?

 

[dan.gheorghe]

Well, finally I have precision 2 bought and delivered. Initial impresions: Sound is very clear, airy, a bit light (comparing to denon PMA1500).
I will give it more time for warm. I also had to change sound character of my DAC19. Thank god it is possible to change from very dry and analytic (which is not pleasat to my ears) to warm with deep bass and good highs (which I really enjoy). I also tested different RCA interconnects and ACSS on contrary. Result is ACSS is winner. Provides more details with richer sound, deeper bass, not dry anymore. For this I use this settings on my DAC19:
- Dithering off
- PLL on
- 50db for stopband
- NOS
Overall I can highly reccomend this combo DAC 19 ACSS, Precision 2, Thanks to the high variability of DAC19. Fortunately I was not forced to stay with default setting of the DAC but there is a posibility to change sound depending on yout favor and rest of chain.. Speakers are bookshelf Xavian Junior XN125.
I will come back with more feedback after some time and if anyone is interested.

Congrats on the purchase. Very good amplifier. Don't forget that the headphone amplifier is extremely good as well. One of the best I've heard. Actually, to be sincere, I don't know any dedicated headphone amplifier at a similar price to match the precision 2.

 

[bazelio]

Well, finally I have precision 2 bought and delivered. Initial impresions: Sound is very clear, airy, a bit light (comparing to denon PMA1500).
I will give it more time for warm. I also had to change sound character of my DAC19. Thank god it is possible to change from very dry and analytic (which is not pleasat to my ears) to warm with deep bass and good highs (which I really enjoy). I also tested different RCA interconnects and ACSS on contrary. Result is ACSS is winner. Provides more details with richer sound, deeper bass, not dry anymore. For this I use this settings on my DAC19:
- Dithering off
- PLL on
- 50db for stopband
- NOS
Overall I can highly reccomend this combo DAC 19 ACSS, Precision 2, Thanks to the high variability of DAC19. Fortunately I was not forced to stay with default setting of the DAC but there is a posibility to change sound depending on yout favor and rest of chain.. Speakers are bookshelf Xavian Junior XN125.
I will come back with more feedback after some time and if anyone is interested.

 
Hi, what were the specific settings you used for "warm with deep bass and good highs" ?
 
Thanks.

 

[Bombik]

Hi,
I am using now this setup with jumpers.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DAC1911/DAC19EN_Use.htm
 

 
 
Now I use on DAC19:
PLLN - jumper ON 
ATT0 - jumper ON (stopband 50db)
ATT1 - jumper ON (stopband 50db)
IPS0 - jumper ON (oversampling 8x is turned off)
IPS1 - OFF
DITH - OFF
 
It will be similar for DAC 19, Master 7, Master 11, ref 5
 
Good thread about jumpers and experience is here:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/51084-audio-gd-ref-5-jumpers/
I am using almost same setup as user katattack74 with similar experience.
 
But don't forget:
-Give your new amp huge amount of time 300+ hours and more. Let it burn (also cables). The more the better. My experience with audio GD gear is that sound changes quite a lot after purchase. In better way.
-Use different cables setups and test it. (I tried 3 types of inteconnects, each with different result. Generaly Supra EFF-I sounded most present sound but not so low and not so detailed on bass and highs. But the bass and mids are massive. Inakustic NF202 very well balanced on all layers, better details. AGD ACSS is crisp on highs, lowest with bass, very solid bass, not so massive and big like Supra EFF-I but still very present and exact).
 
My speaker cable is inakustik LS1102.
Power cables based on Supra LoRad
(all cables are DYI)

 

[Bombik]

Hi,
Comming back with update. Please excuse my english/not my native.
I Checked audio GD website and They are no longer at product list! I supose They finished production already. Anyway.
I finished with RCA interconnect for now. Inakustik NF202 and LS1102 seems to be perfect matching for my speakers. DAC is DAC19 Anniversary incl Amanero, connection via USB.
I use this also for HP chain. Here are some later pros/cons after burn:
 
Pros:
-Very transparent and detailed sound
-Just enough between musical and analytic
-Power output of P2 is huge! Can feed almost any HPhones. Very transparent sound also for HPs
-Sound Imaging, especialy well described space imaging incl left/right and huge deep is present (that was my concern before buying)
-Perfect opportunity to tune to sound you like (thanks to DAC19) -You can use different cables (RCA ACSS) as well as switch jumpers inside DAC19.
-ACSS connection seems more "dry", more analytic, deeper bass, also punchier, highs are also more forward but never harshing so far
-Closed design - the box is closed W/O any holes and works as heatsink. 
-Fully separated 2 channels
-Definitely worth the price
 
Cons:
-Right matching components can be difficult and longer process
-Sound can be to much "enthusiasic" for someone, some genres.
-Amp needs huge amount of time to burn, sound changes a lot
-ACSS connection do not necesarily have to be the best for your music tastes 
-Availability (as it is EOP)
-Volume steps can be too big for highly sensitive HPs
 
Now I plan use more HPs and test it. So far I did tests with:
Sennheiser HD598 - huge soundstage, good mids, bass is weak
ATH A900X - very good sound, precise control
HI2050 - very good sound, HPs are scaling well to higher category
 
I plan to test soon:
HD650
HD800
Fostex TH X00
HE560
Will update my findings after some time. 

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  Hi,
Comming back with update. Please excuse my english/not my native.
I Checked audio GD website and They are no longer at product list! I supose They finished production already. Anyway.
I finished with RCA interconnect for now. Inakustik NF202 and LS1102 seems to be perfect matching for my speakers. DAC is DAC19 Anniversary incl Amanero, connection via USB.
I use this also for HP chain. Here are some later pros/cons after burn:
 
Pros:
-Very transparent and detailed sound
-Just enough between musical and analytic
-Power output of P2 is huge! Can feed almost any HPhones. Very transparent sound also for HPs
-Sound Imaging, especialy well described space imaging incl left/right and huge deep is present (that was my concern before buying)
-Perfect opportunity to tune to sound you like (thanks to DAC19) -You can use different cables (RCA ACSS) as well as switch jumpers inside DAC19.
-ACSS connection seems more "dry", more analytic, deeper bass, also punchier, highs are also more forward but never harshing so far
-Closed design - the box is closed W/O any holes and works as heatsink. 
-Fully separated 2 channels
-Definitely worth the price
 
Cons:
-Right matching components can be difficult and longer process
-Sound can be to much "enthusiasic" for someone, some genres.
-Amp needs huge amount of time to burn, sound changes a lot
-ACSS connection do not necesarily have to be the best for your music tastes 
-Availability (as it is EOP)
-Volume steps can be too big for highly sensitive HPs
 
Now I plan use more HPs and test it. So far I did tests with:
Sennheiser HD598 - huge soundstage, good mids, bass is weak
ATH A900X - very good sound, precise control
HI2050 - very good sound, HPs are scaling well to higher category
 
I plan to test soon:
HD650
HD800
Fostex TH X00
HE560
Will update my findings after some time. 

Good review. I also noticed that audiogd took it off their website. I wonder why? Maybe too close to the price of m9? 

I found it a very capable speaker amp and excellent headphone amp. Actually, I don't know any dedicated hp amp to beat it near that price.
 
It really shines with better headphones. I was excellent with hd800, he-560, lcd-x. I also think it would be a good match with hd650.
 
The bass on HD800 was the best I've ever heard with P2.

 

[Bombik]

Hi Dan, completely agree with you.
The amp revals Headphones strengts and even more weaknesses. For me it was case of HD598. It was clear and I was done in several minutes . Such a difference the amp could bring.
Anyways, looking forward to test on HD800/HD650 and bring back feedback.
From my experience so far it could match perferctly at least on "paper" specs 'n' features.

 

[dan.gheorghe]

  Hi Dan, completely agree with you.
The amp revals Headphones strengts and even more weaknesses. For me it was case of HD598. It was clear and I was done in several minutes . Such a difference the amp could bring.
Anyways, looking forward to test on HD800/HD650 and bring back feedback.
From my experience so far it could match perferctly at least on "paper" specs 'n' features.

Indeed, and P2 has the specs for the speaker outputs posted on its page. Kingwa said that the HP output has even better specs as it is lower noise in more ohms.

 

[mtoc]

Hi folks, as for HPs, how much P2 sound better than the P1? (Still longing for the details about their direct comparison. I'd like to hear your thoughts.)

 

[Bombik]

Hi,
I had no chance to directly compare these two. But after readings and searching sources I would expect P2 to have better channel separation - imaging and better overall balance. But IMO there will be only very subtle difference if any... P1 sound sig I expect similar to P2 - neutral. Bigger sound influence will be from cables and DAC then from this AMP. Also watch on HPs sensitivity/impedance. Both these amps are huge power stations! Best with demanding headphones, otherwise you can struggle on 1 or 2 volume level with no chance to set volume level on smaller steps..

 

[Rayzilla]

It's too bad that this is no longer produced. I just picked up a used Master 9 and I'm very impressed so far. My first Audio GD piece of gear and it's got me interested in something like this that could drive speakers too. Has it been replaced with anything else like this that can drive both?