[Music Alchemist]

The nfb11 has some harshness to it in the treble regions that the nfb29 doesn't have... The 29 is more dynamic, more detailed and overall better. Much bigger sound stage, much better separation and imaging.

My favorite HD800 amp is currently the Glenn OTL, followed closely by the taboo mk3 and beta 22. The Glenn is amazing because of how much detail it can extract from a recording, and how flexible it is in terms of signature with a bit of tube rolling (everything from warm/cold to neutral) The taboo is awesome because of its lucid mode, but is behind the Glenn in dynamics and detail. The beta 22 just sounds good... But is behind both in most categories with the HD800.Also the Glenn is pretty inexpensive.

 
I see. Would you say the NFB-11 is still the best in its price range?
 
How do you get the Glenn OTL? Do you just contact him to build it? What is the price? Are there different versions? Which tubes sound the most neutral with it?

 

[kvtaco17]

   
I see. Would you say the NFB-11 is still the best in its price range?
 
How do you get the Glenn OTL? Do you just contact him to build it? What is the price? Are there different versions? Which tubes sound the most neutral with it?

As a combo yes... I liken it to the bifrost in terms of just a DAC, but more neutral and slightly less dynamic.
The amp portion is pretty good, although a lot of amps are better, but for more money. The NFB11 is a great value.
 
Contact Glenn over in the Glenn amp thread for a build and pricing. He has a few options (balanced in/out, preamp, switches for tube rolling)
 
I like 5998's as output tubes, Mullard CZ593 brown bottoms for a rectifier, and either the Tung-Sol mouse ears 6SN7 or RCA 5692 red bottom as a driver, dependent on mood. This is my proffered combo and is very dynamic and extended at both ends with very good control, The RCA has better bass and is warmer the Tung-Sol is more neutral but slightly on the warm side. You could roll a Sylvania VT 231 to achieve a neutral sound, and gain some sound stage.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Contact Glenn over in the Glenn amp thread for a build and pricing. He has a few options (balanced in/out, preamp, switches for tube rolling)  
I like 5998's as output tubes, Mullard CZ593 brown bottoms for a rectifier, and either the Tung-Sol mouse ears 6SN7 or RCA 5692 red bottom as a driver, dependent on mood. This is my proffered combo and is very dynamic and extended at both ends with very good control, The RCA has better bass and is warmer the Tung-Sol is more neutral but slightly on the warm side. You could roll a Sylvania VT 231 to achieve a neutral sound, and gain some sound stage.

 
Sounds interesting...and intricate. I have no experience with tube amps and would prefer solid-state in terms of simplicity, but if I need to get a tube amp to extract the best out of the HD 800 (while retaining neutrality), so be it! ^_^
 
My plan was to get a budget amp/DAC, then upgrade to the best I can get in the future, so I will probably skip over the NFB-29.

 

[kvtaco17]

   
Sounds interesting...and intricate. I have no experience with tube amps and would prefer solid-state in terms of simplicity, but if I need to get a tube amp to extract the best out of the HD 800 (while retaining neutrality), so be it! ^_^
 
My plan was to get a budget amp/DAC, then upgrade to the best I can get in the future, so I will probably skip over the NFB-29.

Dubstepgirl once told me...
 
"i did alot of my listening on glenn otl with hd 800, which I immensely enjoyed, great pairing and really got to hear how different tubes sounded. the amp sound quality-wise, was on par with a fully upgraded WA22 or WA2 and was only less detailed than the GSX but beautifully lush with tube euphony and dynamics"
 
In my experience this is completely true... except the lushness can be dialed back to a more neutral sound with the proper tubes.
 
and that's what sold me on the Glenn amp... I had been lusting over the Taboo MKIII after hearing it at a meet and I feel the Glenn is better having heard both.
 
That being said, if you want an amazing solid state amp for the HD800, the Master7 is very good... however you will give up DSD support and some other small things.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Dubstepgirl once told me...
 
"i did alot of my listening on glenn otl with hd 800, which I immensely enjoyed, great pairing and really got to hear how different tubes sounded. the amp sound quality-wise, was on par with a fully upgraded WA22 or WA2 and was only less detailed than the GSX but beautifully lush with tube euphony and dynamics"
 
In my experience this is completely true... except the lushness can be dialed back to a more neutral sound with the proper tubes.
 
and that's what sold me on the Glenn amp... I had been lusting over the Taboo MKIII after hearing it at a meet and I feel the Glenn is better having heard both.
 
That being said, if you want an amazing solid state amp for the HD800, the Master7 is very good... however you will give up DSD support and some other small things.

 
It's going to be a crazy journey finding the ultimate setup for any high-end headphone. I am particularly curious about comparing the Eddie Current amps (especially the 445) with the others. Probably won't happen until months/years from now...
 
The main thing I am confused about is what tube amps offer over solid-state when it comes to a neutral and accurate sound.

 

[kvtaco17]

Tubes are just a different way of getting to the same place... you have tons of amps that all sound warm/bright/cold/whatever... it's all about how the circuit is implemented! Tubes just give you choice to tailor the sound to your preferences.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Tubes are just a different way of getting to the same place... you have tons of amps that all sound warm/bright/cold/whatever... it's all about how the circuit is implemented! Tubes just give you choice to tailor the sound to your preferences.

 
Oh, I thought you were saying that even when a neutral sound is achieved through tube rolling, certain tube amps can sound better than even the best solid-state amps that are equally neutral.

 

[wmedrz]

Just noticed this has been out since Sept 1st. Think I'm going to pull the trigger. 
 
What the heck does "single ended MASTER RACE" mean?!? lol

 

[Music Alchemist]

What the heck does "single ended MASTER RACE" mean?!? lol

 
"Master race" has become an Internet meme used in reference to things one considers superior.
 
For example, in the anime thread, people often say things like "sub master race" to imply that Japanese dubs with subtitles are superior to English dubs.

 

[wmedrz]

   
"Master race" has become an Internet meme used in reference to things one considers superior.
 
For example, in the anime thread, people often say things like "sub master race" to imply that Japanese dubs with subtitles are superior to English dubs.

whoa! You just made me feel so old  
 
I wasn't even aware that's what "dub" referred to. I would call anime with subtitles "anime in original language."
 
But this looks like a future buy. Only difference between this and the 28 is that one is balanced? 
 
And there's an Anime Thread on headfi?

 

[Music Alchemist]

  whoa! You just made me feel so old  
 
I wasn't even aware that's what "dub" referred to. I would call anime with subtitles "anime in original language."
 
And there's an Anime Thread on headfi?

 
Yeah, "sub" (Japanese) and "dub" (English) are the easy way to refer to them.
 
Indeed, the Asian Anime, Manga, and Music Lounge. (AAMML for short. We discuss everything there, not just those three things.)
 
It is the most active thread in the history of the site (with over 129,000 posts) and I am currently the most active poster.

 
Let's keep this thread on topic, though. If you have more questions, feel free to hit me up there!
 
Actually, I have a somewhat relevant question for you: before settling on the NFB-11, I was looking at the O2+ODAC. I was convinced to go for the former because reviews and owners told me that it was simply better. Any thoughts on comparing the two?

 

[wmedrz]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
.......
 
Actually, I have a somewhat relevant question for you: before settling on the NFB-11, I was looking at the O2+ODAC. I was convinced to go for the former because reviews and owners told me that it was simply better. Any thoughts on comparing the two?

So I don't have the O2+ODAC combo, I have standalone O2 and a C5D. It's a little unfair to compare the O2 straight from computer with NFB11. NFB11 is more powerful and handles higher bitrates, also it's a dac. It's also more expensive. NFB 11 vs O2 straight from my computer, former wins hands down. 
 
If I use NFB 11 as dac only and connect my O2 to it, O2 is much better than straight from my computer
 
But the NFB 11 still beats it by a wide margin. 
 
With the Audio Technica headphones there are subtle changes in tone and such, but overall both amps are fantastic. Crystal clear with an airy stage. They sound very precise. Bass is comparable on both but a touch deeper on the NFB 11. The O2 produces a nice "twang" to stringed instruments which I find appealing. But the NFB seems to produce a wider stage and better imaging. When I listen with NFB 11 it's like the details come out at me particularly in vocals. I would say the NFB 11 has a cleaner sound, but with the AT headphones I don't feel I'm missing anything using the O2.
 
What I noticed with the O2 is that on faster music with lots of very low and very high notes, the sound bcomes mixed, like all the notes come together and get mixed up into a blob - this is compared to NFB 11, not in general. I apologize for the sorry descriptors.... 
 
The NFB 11 wins hands down when I listen to the O2 with the HiFiMAN headphones. I have not heard a single song that did not produce some type of distortion, clipping, crackling, etc. with that combo. I'm really surprised when reading comments from folks who say they're using O2 with HiFiMAN headphones without problems. The only time I can listen to this combo with no problems is at a 'I just staggered out of bed and any sound will scare the crap out of me' volume level, IOW not loud enough to hear anything! 
 
So, with the AT headphones, both are awesome with NFB 11 inching ahead (even after price considerations). If you have headphones like HiFiMAN I would NOT recommend O2! 
 
These are the songs I listened to on both amps while browsing the web and writing this: 
 
Edith Piaf La Vie, L'amour
Vincent and Mr Green Whiskey Bound
Coma Chaos Kontrolowany
Joe Holland Quartet Blue Moon 
Steve Earle Meet Me In The Alleyway
Johnny Cash Sunday Morning Coming Down
Daft Punk Armory
Rush Entre Nous
Phish Fikus
Shostakovich chamber symphony in C minor op110a allegreto
 
Sorry for making this so verbose. It's my first review/comparison thing! 

 

[kvtaco17]

  So I don't have the O2+ODAC combo, I have standalone O2 and a C5D. It's a little unfair to compare the O2 straight from computer with NFB11. NFB11 is more powerful and handles higher bitrates, also it's a dac. It's also more expensive. NFB 11 vs O2 straight from my computer, former wins hands down. 
 
If I use NFB 11 as dac only and connect my O2 to it, O2 is much better than straight from my computer
 
But the NFB 11 still beats it by a wide margin. 
 
With the Audio Technica headphones there are subtle changes in tone and such, but overall both amps are fantastic. Crystal clear with an airy stage. They sound very precise. Bass is comparable on both but a touch deeper on the NFB 11. The O2 produces a nice "twang" to stringed instruments which I find appealing. But the NFB seems to produce a wider stage and better imaging. When I listen with NFB 11 it's like the details come out at me particularly in vocals. I would say the NFB 11 has a cleaner sound, but with the AT headphones I don't feel I'm missing anything using the O2.
 
What I noticed with the O2 is that on faster music with lots of very low and very high notes, the sound bcomes mixed, like all the notes come together and get mixed up into a blob - this is compared to NFB 11, not in general. I apologize for the sorry descriptors.... 
 
The NFB 11 wins hands down when I listen to the O2 with the HiFiMAN headphones. I have not heard a single song that did not produce some type of distortion, clipping, crackling, etc. with that combo. I'm really surprised when reading comments from folks who say they're using O2 with HiFiMAN headphones without problems. The only time I can listen to this combo with no problems is at a 'I just staggered out of bed and any sound will scare the crap out of me' volume level, IOW not loud enough to hear anything! 
 
So, with the AT headphones, both are awesome with NFB 11 inching ahead (even after price considerations). If you have headphones like HiFiMAN I would NOT recommend O2! 
 
These are the songs I listened to on both amps while browsing the web and writing this: 
 
Edith Piaf La Vie, L'amour
Vincent and Mr Green Whiskey Bound
Coma Chaos Kontrolowany
Joe Holland Quartet Blue Moon 
Steve Earle Meet Me In The Alleyway
Johnny Cash Sunday Morning Coming Down
Daft Punk Armory
Rush Entre Nous
Phish Fikus
Shostakovich chamber symphony in C minor op110a allegreto
 
Sorry for making this so verbose. It's my first review/comparison thing! 

I pretty much agree with your assessment, the 11.32 is a much better amp/DAC then the o2/ODAC... more refined, more powerful and better in pretty much every subjective way.

 

[wmedrz]

 
I pretty much agree with your assessment, the 11.32 is a much better amp/DAC then the o2/ODAC... more refined, more powerful and better in pretty much every subjective way.

What about Objective ways? 

 
 
I just received my replacement 560's and it's about time for me to pull the trigger on the NFB 29 but I'm considering the NFB 28 also. Not sure which one to get. I think either one will suite my needs fine. I'll be using it in the bedroom with a laptop, where I do most of my critical/relaxing listening in bed in the morning and at night. The NFB 11 is staying in the computer room.
 
Which one would you recommend?

 

[kvtaco17]

  What about Objective ways? 

 
 
I just received my replacement 560's and it's about time for me to pull the trigger on the NFB 29 but I'm considering the NFB 28 also. Not sure which one to get. I think either one will suite my needs fine. I'll be using it in the bedroom with a laptop, where I do most of my critical/relaxing listening in bed in the morning and at night. The NFB 11 is staying in the computer room.
 
Which one would you recommend?

I actually got a response from kingwa about the differences and he basically said the 28 will sound like a balanced amp and the 29 will not... from my experience with balanced setups if you gain a little bit in sound stage/dynamics with some circuits and with some others the difference is nonexistent... though he again stated that I should get the 28 if I go balanced because the 28 in single ended mode will sound worse then the 29, and the 28 balanced vs the 29 single ended will be close, but the 28 will sound a little better. SO go for the one that fits what you want to do. I don't intend on re-terminating all my cans so the 29 was my first choice.